What should be done about illegal immigration?

@ebrown p,

ebrown p wrote:

Brandon,

Did you notice that the poll you cite was paid for and reported by FAIR... an extremist anti-immigrant group that is labeled as a hate group by SPLC and the Anti-defamation league. It shouldn't surprise you that their results contradict the results from reputable, non-biased polling firms.

There are polls, and then there is propaganda. Let's stick to real polls from non-biased sources.

""....The poll conducted by Zogby International on behalf of the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR).....""

From the Wikipedia article on Zogby:

Quote:

In the 2008 Presidential race, Zogby International conducted polling for Reuters and C-SPAN, and was praised for the accuracy of its state polling during the general election. As reported in The Wall Street Journal, in the final week before the 2008 Presidential election, Zogby International polled in eight states, including six states where the race was very close, and "missed the final margin by an average of less than two points -- as accurate as the poll aggregators such as Pollster.com."

1 Reply

@Brandon9000,

Come on Brandon!

The poll sponsored by an extreme anti-immigrant group just happens to contradict all the polls taken by news organizations (who have no reason to be biased on one side or the other)--- and you choose to accept the poll from the anti-immigrant group?

I haven't posted any polls sponsored by pro-immigrant groups.

I could... but that would violate my sense of intellectual integrity.

1 Reply

@ebrown p,

ebrown p wrote:

Come on Brandon!

The poll sponsored by an extreme anti-immigrant group just happens to contradict all the polls taken by news organizations (who have no reason to be biased on one side or the other)--- and you choose to accept the poll from the anti-immigrant group?

I haven't posted any polls sponsored by pro-immigrant groups.

I could... but that would violate my sense of intellectual integrity.

The poll was conducted by a reputable polling organization, with a history of accurate reporting, in business for 25 years. If you have any hard evidence that they've ever delivered verifiably inaccurate information, present it. But let's be honest, you really don't care what the citizens think about their immigration laws being violated on a mammoth scale. You want what you want, and people who disagree can just go to hell, right?

1 Reply

@ebrown p,

ebrown p wrote:

I pasted the polls that ask the relevant question from your polling report link... the question being whether Americans support a path to citizenship for immigrants who currently live here illegally.

You can't word the question more plainly than this ABC News/Washington Post poll this April.

Just as plain is the CBS poll, which Pollingreport.com cites just before the ABC News poll you refer to. It asks the same question, only without the word "government program" in it, and gets an approval of less than 50% for a path to citizenship. The rest says "keep them as guest workers" or "send them home". That's how sensitive respondents are to how you ask the question -- and how easily partisans on either side can support their case by cherry-picking statistics.

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@Brandon9000,

Brandon,

I googled around for the real report of the Zogby poll-- I mean, if we are going to argue the poll, it seems reasonable that we should see the actual questions asked, the polling method used, and the raw data.

I seems like that raw data simply isn't available. What you are so strenuously defending as "repubutable" is the anti-immigrant groups interpretation of unpublished poll data.

The polls I posted from reputable polling firms without funding from extremists groups with a bias all publish exact questions, methods and real poll data.

Could you find any real poll data for your so-called "reputable poll"?

Could this be the reason that the results of the poll backed by an anti-immigrant group seems to be at odds with the non-bias polls?

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@Thomas,

Thomas,

My hypothesis on the difference between the two polls is the addition of a third "middle" option (i.e. the guest worker option). People will tend to pick what they see as the middle option when given a choice of three which seem like a spectrum.I don't think the word "government program" is the difference.

Of course, this is just my guess... we would need a scientific poll to answer the question.

However, one thing is clear from the data.

There is sufficient data from multiple polls to say that a path to citizenship for people here illegally now, if offered as part of an overall solution will be acceptable to a majority of Americans.

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While you all know my stand on illegal immigrants, I do believe that in one case the govt is getting silly.

http://www.abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=7795246&page=1

Read the article, its sad.
There are a couple of comments made after the story that I do agree with however.
This little girl is getting deported because a lawyer screwed up, and Obama's aunt that admits to being here illegally is being allowed to stay.
That makes no sense to me.

The govt should make an exception in this case, IMHO.

1 Reply

@mysteryman,

I agree with you Mysterman that this girl should be allowed to stay.

However, this is hardly a unique situation, there are thousands of families with similar stories. Why would you make an exception in this case?

((that is a cute little girl))

Quote:

In 2000, Ewelina's father brought her and her mother into the United States illegally through Mexico, Odom said. He became a lawful permanent resident in 1992 and a citizen in 2006.

In 2001, the family said it hired the first immigration lawyer to take advantage of a temporary provision in the 2000 Naturalization and Immigration Act that allowed illegal immigrants to pay a $1,000 fine and petition for legal status.

1 Reply

@Thomas,

Thomas wrote:

ebrown p wrote:
I pasted the polls that ask the relevant question from your polling report link... the question being whether Americans support a path to citizenship for immigrants who currently live here illegally.

You can't word the question more plainly than this ABC News/Washington Post poll this April.

Just as plain is the CBS poll, which Pollingreport.com cites just before the ABC News poll you refer to. It asks the same question, only without the word "government program" in it, and gets an approval of less than 50% for a path to citizenship. The rest says "keep them as guest workers" or "send them home". That's how sensitive respondents are to how you ask the question -- and how easily partisans on either side can support their case by cherry-picking statistics.

Correct which is why I think no poll will provide solid proof of much of anything. Unless people have already firmed up their opinion about something and it is pretty well imbedded in granite, I think the way a question is phrased, whether it is a sunny or cloudy day, whether somebody is well or ill, the time of day, the general area targeted, etc. or whether somebody has just had a positive or negative experience with something can affect how they would answer a question on a poll.

The last time I got called for a telephone poll on the immigration issue, the question was something as to whether I was mostly positive or negative about immigrants. I replied that my answer would depend on whether the immigrants were legal or illegal. Did the poll deal with that? The lady admitted it did not. I advised her I was very favorable toward immigration through legal processes and generally negative toward immigration through illegal processes. She thanked me and moved on.

I wonder whether she marked down an answer based on our conversation.

I do think a review of all polls are useful to indicate trends, however. And I think the polls currently reflect a trend that is less favorable toward illegal immigrants. Whether that is due to more education and thought about the subject or primarily due to the economic downturn I couldn't say, though I do believe the economic downturn is a factor.

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@ebrown p,

Because this family tried to do the right thing.
Granted, they entered the country illegally, but then the father did the right thing and applied for and became a citizen.
Now, if he had not done that then I would be 100% in favor of deporting the entire family.

Also, since the error was on the part of an officer of the court, then the family should not be held responsible.
The lawyer involved should be disbarred and lose her license.

2 Replies

@mysteryman,

Quote:

Because this family tried to do the right thing.
Granted, they entered the country illegally, but then the father did the right thing and applied for and became a citizen.

If I interpret the timeline in this article correctly, this family originally used a temporary loophole caused by legal challenge based on the Reagan amnesty. They had a path to citizenship (due only to pure luck on their timing) that simply isn't available now.

Families today are blocked from doing the right thing. Once you are here illegally, we don't give them a way to "do the right thing".

Giving families (just like this one) the chance to "do the right thing" is what a path to citizenship is all about.

I am glad you are in favor of this-- at least for one family.

1 Reply

@mysteryman,

If the father is a citizen, his daughter should be automatically eligible for citizenship. If that is the case, then agreed the lawyer screwed up and this case should be immediately appealed.

0 Replies

Latest Gallup Poll Shows 62% Dissatisfied With Current Immigration Levels

In the latest Gallup poll 62% of respondents are dissatisfied with the current level of immigration in the country. Out of the remaining respondents, 30% said they were satisfied and only 4% said they were very satisfied with the levels and wanted more.
For those that replied very satisfied only one other subject scored lower, the satisfaction level with the nation's current campaign finance laws.

When analyzing satisfied vs. dissatisfied immigration scored 25, fourth from last place. Other issues that placed below immigration in the satisfaction rankings were

The Social Security and Medicare systems
The nation's efforts to deal with poverty and homelessness
The availability of affordable healthcare
I would argue that if you solve the immigration issue the other 3 mentioned above would be greatly improved. Affordable healthcare is being affected as evidenced by the closures of Emergency Rooms in New Jersey and California because of uninsured illegal aliens flooding into them and sticking taxpayers with the bill. Another low scoring satisfaction level is with quality of healthcare. It's hard to be satisfied with health care when the hospitals are flooded and you have to wait for 3 hours.
Also noted recently in Barron's is an Underground Economy that consists of nearly $1 trillion dollars that is not taxed. Barron's concluded:

If the IRS could collect all the taxes it says that it is owed from the underground economy in a given year, then the current budget deficit would disappear overnight. And if the IRS could collect these taxes every year, then the nation would have surpluses as far as the eye can see.
Collecting all of the taxes on wages of illegal aliens would go a long way to dealing with poverty and homelessness and for the Social Security and Medicare issues mentioned above.
While solving the illegal immigration problem wouldn't relieve peoples dissatisfaction at the campaign finance reform laws, it would go a long way toward improving a lot of the issues you see people are dissatisfied with in the poll.

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Obama does his best to sink any efforts to enforce our borders.

Obama Administration Ready to Give Job Security to Illegal Aliens
Friday, 12 June 2009 06:54 FAIR
Gut Rules Designed to Prevent Identity Theft by Illegal Aliens

Earlier today, FAIR learned that in the coming days, maybe as soon as tomorrow, the Obama Administration will announce two regulations that will dramatically undermine immigration enforcement.

The first regulation would gut a Bush Administration rule that required federal contractors -- paid with your tax dollars -- to use the E-Verify program to ensure that their employees are legally authorized to work in the U.S. FAIR expects the Obama Administration to gut this rule so that illegal aliens who are currently working for federal contractors will be able to continue in those jobs. This would give job security to illegal aliens who work for federal contractors instead of freeing that job up so that an American worker could be hired. Last week, the Bureau of Labor Statistics announced that 14.5 million Americans are out of work.

The second regulation would gut another Bush Administration rule to provide "no-match" notices to employers who have reported paying wages to people whose name and Social Security number don't match. As the Department of Homeland Security said in October: "One private study concluded that 'most workers with unmatched SSNs are undocumented immigrants.'" The Bush Administration proposed a rule to instruct employers how to deal with the "no-match" letters to ensure that employers don't continue to employ illegal aliens. By gutting this rule, not only would illegal aliens be allowed to continue in their jobs but the Obama Administration would also be turning a blind eye to those illegal aliens who are committing felony identity theft by using the Social Security number of an American citizen or legal immigrant!

--borderfirereports.net

1 Reply

@Advocate,

Quote:

Obama has proposed another (besides himself) anti-US Constitutionist and openly racist candidate to the US Supreme Court"Sonia Sotomayor. This is a judge who is a member of the radical group La Raza and who said: “The Court of Appeals is where policy is made. And I know this is on tape and I should never say that because we don't make law. I know"I know. I'm not promoting it. I'm not advocating it. I'm"you know. OK. Having said that, the Court of Appeals is where, before the Supreme Court makes the final decision, the law is percolating. It's interpretation. It's application.” She also said: “I would hope that a wise Latina woman with the richness of her experiences would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a white male who hasn’t lived that life.” Further, Sotomayor ‘disagrees’ with the Second Amendment. In Maloney v. Cuomo she ruled that US citizens do not have the right to keep and bear arms"only the State does. Then, in dismissing a discrimination case, Sotomayor ruled against 19 Connecticut firefighters who had documented proof that after achieving high scores on exams they were denied promotions because of their race"which is white. Note: In an interesting twist, this case is currently scheduled to be heard by SCOTUS.

--borderfirereport.net

1 Reply

Latest Gallup Poll Shows 62% Dissatisfied With Current Immigration Levels

In the latest Gallup poll 62% of respondents are dissatisfied with the current level of immigration in the country. Out of the remaining respondents, 30% said they were satisfied and only 4% said they were very satisfied with the levels and wanted more.
For those that replied very satisfied only one other subject scored lower, the satisfaction level with the nation's current campaign finance laws.

When analyzing satisfied vs. dissatisfied immigration scored 25, fourth from last place. Other issues that placed below immigration in the satisfaction rankings were

The Social Security and Medicare systems
The nation's efforts to deal with poverty and homelessness
The availability of affordable healthcare
I would argue that if you solve the immigration issue the other 3 mentioned above would be greatly improved. Affordable healthcare is being affected as evidenced by the closures of Emergency Rooms in New Jersey and California because of uninsured illegal aliens flooding into them and sticking taxpayers with the bill. Another low scoring satisfaction level is with quality of healthcare. It's hard to be satisfied with health care when the hospitals are flooded and you have to wait for 3 hours.
Also noted recently in Barron's is an Underground Economy that consists of nearly $1 trillion dollars that is not taxed. Barron's concluded:

If the IRS could collect all the taxes it says that it is owed from the underground economy in a given year, then the current budget deficit would disappear overnight. And if the IRS could collect these taxes every year, then the nation would have surpluses as far as the eye can see.
Collecting all of the taxes on wages of illegal aliens would go a long way to dealing with poverty and homelessness and for the Social Security and Medicare issues mentioned above.
While solving the illegal immigration problem wouldn't relieve peoples dissatisfaction at the campaign finance reform laws, it would go a long way toward improving a lot of the issues you see people are dissatisfied with in the poll.

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AND

Americans Support Universal Health Coverage, But Not If It Covers Illegal Immigrants
Friday, June 12, 2009
Eighty percent (80%) of U.S. voters oppose providing government health care coverage for illegal immigrants as part of the health care reform package that is working its way through Congress.

The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that just 11% disagree and think coverage for illegals is a good idea.

Most voters also oppose making health insurance mandatory for all Americans.

Still, two-thirds (65%) believe that every single American should have access to quality health care. Twenty-two percent (22%) disagree, and 12% are not sure. These numbers remain largely unchanged since President Obama first proposed such coverage earlier this year.

While most Americans support the idea of providing quality health care coverage for all Americans, they overwhelmingly oppose such a proposal if it also includes coverage for illegal immigrants. Only 20% favor a proposal for universal health care if illegal immigrants are included. Seventy percent (70%) are against such a proposal.

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@ebrown p,

You are cherry picking in finding disturbing things about Sonia's past. Some of these things are disturbing to me. However, she is far less scary than the conservatives presently on the court. She is super-bright, a moderate liberal, experienced, and fully capable of being an excellent justice.

2 Replies

@Advocate,

Advocate, You called me a liar on the Israel thread. Please respond to my question.

Quote:

Re: Advocate (Post 3675625)
Biggest liar? Please list them (all the lies I've told) out for me, because I might learn something from you!

1 Reply

@Advocate,

Quote:

You are cherry picking in finding disturbing things about Sonia's past.

I am doing nothing of the sort. It is your friends--- the Obama-hating, minority fearing, right-wingers whose sites you keep promoting on this thread that are doing the cherry picking.

You are obviously comfortable taking traditionally liberal stances on other threads...

On the immigration issue you are happy to crawl into bed with people who (outside this one issue) you and I would certainly agree are pretty nasty.

This contradiction in your posts amuses me.

1 Reply

What should be done about illegal immigration?

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