50
   

What should be done about illegal immigration?

 
 
ebrown p
 
  2  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 04:33 pm
This is a dumb argument Cicerone. We Americans have broken the law since before we dumped stolen tea in Boston Harbor.

Sometimes we broke laws for good reasons-- to be with the ones we love who are either the wrong gender or the wrong race. Sometimes to oppose injustice, hiding slaves or desegregating busses.

Sometimes we broke laws just cause we felt like it. Prohibition was widely broken. In fact it was the general lawlessness that resulted that caused us to revoke this failed law.

People break immigrations laws for very American reasons. To be with the ones they love, or to provide a better life for their children. Tell me that many (if not most) Americans... who are willing to break the law for a drink, or a smoke wouldn't do the same.

I bet you break the law just to get to work a bit faster.

This discussion should be about compassion and respect for our fellow human beings. The law with its policies and penalties should be both logical and understanding.

Following unworkable laws that hurt you our your family... that would be simply Un-American. The fact that you single out "illegal" people for harsh treatment that you would not accept for yourself or your family shows the hypocrisy of your position.

Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 04:36 pm
@ebrown p,
Could it be said that to tolerate illegal activity from illegals that would not be tolerated from one's neighbors would also be a hypocritical position?
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 04:38 pm
@ebrown p,
Quote:
This discussion should be about compassion and respect for our fellow human beings
I disagre3 ebrown, it should, above all else, be about common sense.
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 04:41 pm
@Foxfyre,
Quote:
Could it be said that to tolerate illegal activity from illegals that would not be tolerated from one's neighbors would also be a hypocritical position?


Quote:

On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. "Teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"

"What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?"

He answered: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'"

"You have answered correctly," Jesus replied. "Do this and you will live."

But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, "And who is my neighbor?"

"A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he fell into the hands of robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead with no clothes.

A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, and he passed by on the other side. So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, he too passed by on the other side.

But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, took him to an inn and looked after him. The next day he took out two silver coins and gave them to the innkeeper. 'Look after him,' he said, 'and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.'

"Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?" The expert in the law replied, "The one who had mercy on him." Jesus told him, "Go and do likewise."

0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 04:47 pm
@dyslexia,
Quote:
Re: ebrown p (Post 3647662)
Quote:
:
This discussion should be about compassion and respect for our fellow human beings
I disagre3 ebrown, it should, above all else, be about common sense


he who refuses to stand up for what he believes in and to protect what is his will in short order have nothing. Respect and compassion runs both ways anyways, those who want to come to American should have enough respect for America to follow our laws, should have enough compassion for Americans to feel bad about taking american time/energy/ and wealth by trying to come here illegally.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 04:51 pm
@hawkeye10,
Couldn't have said it any clearer.
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 04:59 pm
@ebrown p,
Quote:
This discussion should be about compassion and respect for our fellow human beings. The law with its policies and penalties should be both logical and understanding.

Following unworkable laws that hurt you our your family... that would be simply Un-American. The fact that you single out "illegal" people for harsh treatment that you would not accept for yourself or your family shows the hypocrisy of your position.


This discussion should be about the LAW.
If you dont like the law, get the law changed.
But until you do get it changed ot repealed,it is still the law!

Using your argument, I should be able to rob a bank with impunity, because I dont like the law that makes it illegal.

But to violate the law simply because you dont like it should get you arrested.
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 05:00 pm
@mysteryman,
Quote:
This discussion should be about the LAW.
If you dont like the law, get the law changed.


Here I agree with you. And... that is exactly what we are trying to do (if we can only find a way to get rid of that darn Republican filibuster).
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 05:01 pm
@cicerone imposter,
It only forgot that human beings are not quite as decent as hawk would like them to be for reasons that it takes little imagination to figure out.

His forbears were just the same.

They hadn't all that much compassion for the Americans who were in possession 300 years ago. I saw a 1927 newspaper headline which said that the sheriff was raising a posse to exterminate Indians.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 05:05 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
His forbears were just the same.

They hadn't all that much compassion for the Americans who were in possession 300 years ago. I saw a 1927 newspaper headline which said that the sheriff was raising a posse to exterminate Indians


I had nothing to do with what was done to the Indians, so don't pin that on me. I refuse to feel bad about Indian suffering for the same reason. I am responsible for what I do only.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 05:10 pm
@hawkeye10,
Well- living off immoral earnings is always a hard thing to prove and a lot of very respectable people benefit from that difficulty.

I don't think the modern immigrant, illegal or otherwise, lacks compassion on a scale that got you onto the gravy train hawk. Nowhere near. He lacks the firepower for a start.

It was you who raised compassion.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 05:16 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

Could it be said that to tolerate illegal activity from illegals that would not be tolerated from one's neighbors would also be a hypocritical position?
As if there's a single person on this thread that gives a rat's ass if his neighbor moves from place to place to find work and better provide for his family. Mindless bigotry based solely on which patch of earth a human was born on is no less irrational hatred than mindless bigotry based on skin color. And frankly, I think the former is generally a facade to hide the latter.

Ebrown's point should be felt by every caring human being who reads it. The truth in his words should be considered self evident. Our founding fathers broke the law for VERY similar reasons as illegal aliens do today; they considered their families well-being more important than unjust laws.

Anyone who can't see Ebrown's point is a bigot, and idiot or both. And anyone who swears he would never break the law to provide for their family is a coward to boot. A self respecting man, whose family was in dire need, might say something like, “I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death! Funny how those words are widely respected, when the White Man said it; but God forbid the Brown Man feels the same way.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 05:19 pm
And you have to laugh at an evolution proponent agreeing about compassion.
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 05:19 pm
@spendius,
Why? Compassion is clearly an evolved trait (this should be a fun tagent).
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 05:24 pm
Actually, it doesn't matter what anybody says. They will take over. It's an ineluctable modality of evolution so you might as well get used to it.

We are all going to end up a paler shade of black.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 05:27 pm
@OCCOM BILL,
Quote:
As if there's a single person on this thread that gives a rat's ass if his neighbor moves from place to place to find work and better provide for his family. Mindless bigotry based solely on which patch of earth a human was born on is no less irrational hatred than mindless bigotry based on skin color. And frankly, I think the former is generally a facade to hide the latter


Oh Jesus Christ, another idiot throwing the label "bigot" around a2k yet again...

Considering that you have zero understanding of power dynamics why don't you try to listen for awhile, so that you may one day be able to comment on the subject of immigration intelligently?
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 05:27 pm
@OCCOM BILL,
Quote:
And anyone who swears he would never break the law to provide for their family is a coward to boot. A self respecting man, whose family was in dire need, might say something like, “I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!


And that same man would also admit that if he got caught there should and would be consequences.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 05:33 pm
@mysteryman,
Yes--but only from bullying. Not on any other principle.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 05:46 pm
@mysteryman,
True compassion is working for a policy and process by which you don't make victims of one party while attempting to help another. True compassion is emptying y0ur own pockets to help the desperate instead of screaming racist bigot at those who are actually doing that. True compassion is working toward solutions that do not encourage people to risk life and limb and set terrible examples for their children. True compassion is finding a solutions that all can live with and even be happy about rather than consigning millions of people to second class citizenship and crushing poverty for generations.

It is very easy to feel self righteous and sanctimonious when you can be generous at the expense of others and you can choose to be blind to the consequences of such generosity. Those who live with it every day have a somewhat different perspective about how best to help without hurting.

This isn't directed at you of course, MM, or anybody else on the pro-enforcement side of the debate. But I swear it is not us who are the racist bigots. That would be those who can't see any factor in the debate but people's color.
ebrown p
 
  2  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 06:07 pm
@Foxfyre,
LOL
0 Replies
 
 

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