What should be done about illegal immigration?

@roger,

Yes, it is legal. But that wasn't what Foxfyre was arguing. Her argument was that allowing people to pay for their residency or citizenship was "a reprehensible concept to anybody who values what America used to stand for."

Now, either that's true, and paying money in order to get residency or citizenship is reprehensible in each and every case (even if some of those reprehensible cases are sanctioned by law) - or it's not really a reprehensible concept at all, and only the idea that people should be allowed to pay money and get residency after they've already crossed the border illegally is reprehensible.

Also, Foxfyre's suggestion was that illegal immigrants should have to leave the country and then be allowed to come back via legal means. Therefore, if an illegal immigrant could afford it, all he would have to do would be to invest $1,000,000 and if he got lucky and got approved he could come back right away - having, in effect, legalized his residency by simply paying for it.

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@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

That's what I thought too. It wasn't my idea, believe me, but I wasn't going to let Him be misquoted and misrepresented either for purposes which He would never condone.

ehh... you know how i feel about religion, any religion, intruding into the general business of government. Wink

but if that stuff has to get pulled in, wasn't there something about "render unto caesar what is caesar's and unto god that which is god's"

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@old europe,

Possibly Foxfyre are not in total agreement. My own preference is to make the legal methods of immigration easier to comply with, ant the illegal methods more difficult.

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@roger,

You and I are in 100% agreement on that point. But be careful or Obill will also be accusing you of wanting to starve children. But the fact that every time we have offered any form of amnesty to illegals to solve an illegal immigration problem, we were rewarded with as many three and four-fold the number of new illegal immigrants. There is no reason to think that doing that again will produce any different result even if we do impose a fine, collect back taxes--good luck with trying to prove who owes what there--and require that everybody learn English which should be the policy for everybody anyway.

If we are going to solve the problem we have to make it much more attractive to be here legally and much more difficult, unprofitable, and unattractive to be here illegally.

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@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

Not really that silly. The argument is whether the government should enforce the law. The pro-amnesty people are now wanting Jesus to help them justify not enforcing the law. The only silly thing is the misinterpretation of Scripture they're having to use in order to do that.

Wow. You have no shame. Where in the "Scripture" does it say border crossers are exempt from forgiveness? What kind of dementia is required to believe Jesus would condone harsher punishment on border crossers than on murderers or thieves?

Why are you so afraid to let the next guy continue to live the life he's built for years since his one terrible sin of crossing a border without permission? Why would you punish the men and women and children, who through no fault of their own, were brought here as children, because their parents were hoping to provide them a better life?

What makes any of you think describing your bigotry as "resentment" makes you any less guilty of prejudice? If you've developed a "resentment" against the whole of a particular demographic, because some members of it have taken advantage; guess what; that’s bigotry.

When Jesus forgave his own murderers; he didn't concern himself that doing so might encourage others to commit murder. He didn’t look to the past and say I’ll forgive you for that if you do it no more, either. He said forgive them father; they know not what they do, in reference to people who were about to commit an atrocity against him and showed every indication that they had no intention of abandoning their heinously sinful practices. Yet he forgave them… in advance… for their future sins. It seems most interpretations of his life I’m aware of contend that he died for ALL of our future sins.

Foxy’s demented belief that he somehow meant ALL of our future sins, except those who don’t have a valid U.S. Social Security Number is incredible. To think he would have less compassion for an illegal border-crosser than for murderers on the verge of crucifying him and who knows how many who’d come after him; is patently absurd. To think He would condone breaking up families, or punishing children for the sins of their parents flies in defiance of ALL that he purportedly stood for. ALL that he purportedly died for. Foxy, you have no shame.

If you truly believe as you say you do, Foxfyre, you should seriously reconsider your stand against forgiveness. Forgive them not, at your own peril:

Quote:

If you forgive others their transgressions, your heavenly Father will forgive you. But if you do not forgive others, neither will your Father forgive your transgressions. (Matthew 6:14-15)

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Bill, your straw men and non sequiturs have become too ridiculous to even respond to. If you would like to actually discuss the topic in a civil manner, I am always agreeable to that.

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O'Moron successfully brought in the bible, and many of you are running with it. We have a secular constitution and a secular government, which is as it should be. We are not, for instance, Gaza, in which Hamas has adopted shariah.

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@roger,

roger wrote:

old europe wrote:

Ordering them to "go home" is no punishment, then?

You got it. You get caught stealing a nice watch. They tell you to put it back and leave the store. You're back where you started, and you haven't been punished.

You can't possibly see a parallel there.

If the watch thief gets caught a decade later; providing there is no statute of limitations to expire; he gives up the watch and faces whatever other penalties the authorities see fit. Among those penalties: will not be breaking up his family; asking him to choose between taking his children from the only life they’ve ever known or losing their father. They won't take his job, his friends, his entire livelihood for his decade old crime, as they would in the case of deporting a man who's only crime was crossing a border a decade ago. That punishment just doesn't fit the crime.

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@Advocate,

Advocate wrote:

O'Moron successfully brought in the bible, and many of you are running with it. We have a secular constitution and a secular government, which is as it should be. We are not, for instance, Gaza, in which Hamas has adopted shariah.

not for the lack of huckabee and his bunch trying to do the same here.

i vote for keeping the thread on topic; which is how to reform the immigration system and prevent future illegal entries to the best extent.

so far, the whole thing seems to be going back and forth about a single border; the southern one.

there's more to it than that.

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@Advocate,

Advocate wrote:

O'Moron successfully brought in the bible, and many of you are running with it.

Further demonstration of your idiocy. Any literate person can see I merely joined in an exchange that was already taking place between Ebrown and Foxfyre. What is it about making a total fool of yourself that you enjoy so much? How can you so consistently make idiotic statements that everyone endowed with a brain can clearly see are false?

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@OCCOM BILL,

Nice photo, Bill!

Cycloptichorn

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@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

Bill, your straw men and non sequiturs have become too ridiculous to even respond to. If you would like to actually discuss the topic in a civil manner, I am always agreeable to that.

You're repeatedly demonstrated that you understand neither of those terms. Continue to deny the obvious at your own peril.

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@roger,

roger wrote:

Possibly Foxfyre are not in total agreement. My own preference is to make the legal methods of immigration easier to comply with, ant the illegal methods more difficult.

Oh, and I forgot to add that my proposals that I have offered numerous times on this thread would make being here legally much simpler and more efficient than it is now. It would ensure that all honorable people who are here legally will be accepted as being here legally and there will be no question about that. It would provide a path to citizenship for those who do want to be Americans and would remove all stigma and fear from those who just want to come to work and then go home. It would stop American employers from unfairly exploiting and abusing workers which many do now to the detriment of all workers in a given area, and it would prevent establishment of another permanent underclass--a very real concern which ebrown and oBill have consistently ignored.

All that could be accomplished without rewarding illegal behavior or encouraging more of it.

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@OCCOM BILL,

OCCOM BILL wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:

Bill, your straw men and non sequiturs have become too ridiculous to even respond to. If you would like to actually discuss the topic in a civil manner, I am always agreeable to that.

You're repeatedly demonstrated that you understand neither of those terms. Continue to deny the obvious at your own peril.

I can assure you that I understand the terms better than you apparently do.

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@Cycloptichorn,

Well thank you.

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The real tragedy in the church is the fight between White churches and Hispanic Churches-- particularly in light of the final prayer of Jesus just before he was betrayed (and killed).

Quote:

My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 1that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.

Although I am not longer religious, many of my friends are part of the Hispanic Evangelical church. There is a deep sense of betrayal and abandonment from White Christians.

The church is bitterly split. Whether it is the fault of white Christians for wanting the friends and families of their Hispanic brothers and sisters in Christ, or the fault of Hispanic Christians for trying to stop their friends and families from being deported-- it is clear that the disunity dishonors the Lord and Savior that all Christians are trying to please.

Quote:

A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."

The failure of the Evangelical church to follow this basic command-- instead dividing among ethnic lines- is very sad indeed (and it is what started me on my path away from religion). It seems to me that Christians would do a much better job of being lights to the world if they weren't trying to deport each other.

Jesus was neither White nor Hispanic. Which church he would be a part of is a very interesting question indeed.

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Now the U.S. Army is working to further crowd our country. It is a clear case of O'Moron think.

U.S. Army seeks immigrants
to serve for U.S. passport

By the A.M. Costa Rica wire services

The U.S. Army is stepping up efforts to recruit more skilled soldiers by offering immigrants a fast track to U.S. citizenship if they enlist.

The move comes as the Pentagon prepares to send several thousand more troops to Afghanistan and with the war in Iraq in its sixth year.

Lt. Col. Margaret Stock says the Army is looking for people with language skills or medical expertise. "We're also looking for people who have cultural ability. They understand certain cultures that we are dealing with. We found, in our operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, that having people who were culturally knowledgeable is critical to success on the battlefield," Col. Stock said.

So far, the program, which began in February, has enlisted 52 new soldiers, 60 percent of whom are college graduates. The Army wants people who speak one of 35 languages it deems strategic.

Stephen Chi speaks Cantonese and four other languages. He will be working as a petroleum supply specialist. He said he enlisted, not for the U.S. passport, but for the camaraderie. "I grew up in Norway, my parents are Chinese, so joining the Army will give me a chance to really belong to somewhere," he said.

Toniya Mishra, 24, who will start as a water treatment specialist. She says the Army approached her after finding her resume on the Internet. While her starting salary is less than she hoped to get with a masters' degree, she says there are other perks. "They provide insurance for your family, and you get to travel a lot in different countries, and it's better than doing anything else in a market like this today," she said.

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@Advocate,

This is not the first time immigrants got "fast track" to citizenship by serving in our military. I think it's a very good idea.

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@cicerone imposter,

It seems sick to me. In essence, it is hiring mercenaries to do our fighting. Moreover, our youth will increasingly turn to the military in these times of economic meltdown.

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McCain now wants to cash in on immigration reform. But everything depends on where the political wind blows.

IMMIGRATION -- McCAIN HOLDS FUNDRAISER FOR IMMIGRATION REFORM AFTTER REFERRING TO LATINOS AS 'YOU PEOPLE': On Thursday, the New York Times reported that the Obama administration would begin working on comprehensive immigration reform this year, perhaps as early as May. Sen. John McCain (R-AZ), who championed immigration reform in 2007, is trying to reap a financial windfall out of the news. The Houston Chronicle reported this weekend that McCain's Senate re-election finance chairman, Jason LaVecke, is planning a fundraiser for McCain after hearing about Obama's interest in the topic. "My first mission is to raise enough money early to keep challengers out of [McCain's] race," LeVecke said. "By Thursday afternoon hundreds of Houston business leaders received e-mails urging them to join the effort -- by bringing their checkbooks to a May 4 fundraiser here for Sen. John McCain," the Chronicle reported. But when McCain thought Obama wasn't taking the lead on immigration, he lashed out at the Hispanic community for voting for Obama. National Journal reported earlier this month that McCain derogatorily referred to a group of Latinos he was meeting with as "you people." "You people made your choice. You made your choice during the election," McCain reportedly said. "My hands were shaking," one source at the event recalled. Changing his tune on immigration is nothing new for McCain. During the Republican primary last year, McCain said he wouldn't vote for his own immigration bill and he repeatedly touted "securing the borders" before comprehensive reform. He then walked the fine line of criticizing undocumented immigration while supporting reform during the general election.

--americanprogressaction.org

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What should be done about illegal immigration?

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