What should be done about illegal immigration?

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Gotta give a little leeway on April fool's day.

oh. yeah. uhh, sorrrryyy... Very Happy

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@cicerone imposter,

Because blacks are suffering the most from the massive invasion of illegals. For instance, the latter are taking decent construction jobs formerly held by blacks.

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@DontTreadOnMe,

DontTreadOnMe wrote:

is this bigoted ?

Quote:
Article 33. Foreigners are those who do not possess the qualifications set forth in Article 30. They are entitled to the guarantees granted by Chapter I, Title I, of the present Constitution; but the Federal Executive shall have the exclusive power to compel any foreigner whose remaining he may deem inexpedient to abandon the national territory immediately and without the necessity of previous legal action.

Foreigners may not in any way participate in the political affairs of the country.

No. The post that started this thread rolling again was. And every single person who advocates denying healthcare to children is an asshole. In this case; a bigoted asshole, because they are advocating denying it only to foreign children... and make no mistake; that means Mexicans. Such a law could only have the effect of making children suffer for the sins of their parents. Are you actually in support of that yourself?

This entire planet could have enough to eat and clean water to drink for a fraction of what we’ve been spending in Iraq. And these assholes are worried about the cost of feeding children residing right here in the United States, through no choice of their own. Are you an advocate of this argument as well?

If not bigotry; what do you suppose motivates otherwise decent human beings to advocate child neglect and child abuse on an overwhelmingly Mexican demographic?

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but don't you see bill? the problem is that you castigate america for doing, and in a less harsh way, the same thing that the united states of mexico does; seek to preserve it's sovereignty.

and that's the part that you gloss over. sure there's some white people that don't want brown people around. there are some black people that don't want brown people around. and where i live, there are even some brown people that don't want black people, white people, yellow people, red people or even brown people from other countries around.

but that is not the central objection to illegal immigration in the minds of the other sane 99%.

and no, of course i don't want children to be allowed to starve.

i'll tell you something that i do believe with some certainty; nothing good is going to happen on this subject until people on both sides get over the drama session and logically divorce the myth of it being all about racism from the reality that people instinctively do not like people sneaking into their house.

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@Advocate,

This is the first time I'm hearing that illegal immigrants are taking away construction jobs away from black people. Do you have any (outside, credible) source to confirm this claim?

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@DontTreadOnMe,

DontTreadOnMe wrote:

but don't you see bill? the problem is that you castigate america for doing, and in a less harsh way, the same thing that the united states of mexico does; seek to preserve it's sovereignty.

and that's the part that you gloss over.

Huh? I don't gloss over it; I simply pay no mind to that which is utterly irrelevant. Why would I give a rat's ass what Mexico's immigration laws are? Or canada's or Saudi Arabia's for that matter? I have no voice in any of those country's governance.

If the Mexican regime treats people worse that United States; that only serves to provide more justification for a citizen of Mexico to think he might like to immigrate.

DontTreadOnMe wrote:

sure there's some white people that don't want brown people around. there are some black people that don't want brown people around. and where i live, there are even some brown people that don't want black people, white people, yellow people, red people or even brown people from other countries around.

but that is not the central objection to illegal immigration in the minds of the other sane 99%.

Please source your statistics that show 99% of the anti-immigration crowd is so absent shades of racism. That is really laughable, DTOM.

DontTreadOnMe wrote:

and no, of course i don't want children to be allowed to starve.

Yet here you are defending a bigot who proposes we do just that. As if children have a voice in whether or not they go where their parents take them. Mexico supposedly does it; so we should too? Iran still stones women to death for adultery... should we follow in their footsteps as well? What the hell were you smoking when you decided Mexico's rules are relevant anyway?

DontTreadOnMe wrote:

i'll tell you something that i do believe with some certainty; nothing good is going to happen on this subject until people on both sides get over the drama session and logically divorce the myth of it being all about racism from the reality that people instinctively do not like people sneaking into their house.

The Myth? Is this an April Fool's joke; or are have you lost your mind? Nothing good is going to happen on the subject until people get over their mindless bigotry... or more likely; when the rational majority overrules the bigoted minority.

As long as I've been alive, the evolution of conscience has been a one way street. Sooner or later, the bigots are going to lose.

In the mean time I wish you’d reconsider your apparent endorsement of post that calls for state sponsored child neglect and abuse. It doesn’t reflect well on you.

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

This is the first time I'm hearing that illegal immigrants are taking away construction jobs away from black people. Do you have any (outside, credible) source to confirm this claim?

afraid i have to question that one myself.

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@cicerone imposter,

Construction jobs is just one example. Not too long ago, the INS showed up at a large DC restaurant. In seconds, about 50 illegals were dashing from the restaurant into the streets of Georgetown. The restaurant did not have a single black employee.

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It is cute how O'Moron sets up, and knocks down, a straw man. No one is saying that children should be denied health care.

Keep in mind that O'Moron believes that the USA can easily accomodate a couple billion more people. He thinks we can easily desalinate ocean water.

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@Advocate,

Here in Silicon Valley, most workers in restaurants are Mexicans with a few scatterings of blacks. I think there are more Asians than blacks working in restaurants in our area.

I'm not so sure that your observations about less blacks working in restaurants has any meaning other than that seems to be the general rule in most areas.

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Here in Silicon Valley, most workers in restaurants are Mexicans with a few scatterings of blacks. I think there are more Asians than blacks working in restaurants in our area.

I'm not so sure that your observations about less blacks working in restaurants has any meaning other than that seems to be the general rule in most areas.

it's a well known fact that neither blacks nor browns work in restaurants because they are all on welfare.

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@dyslexia,

BS! Only children, the disabled, and the elderly are on welfare.

DC has loads of unemployed blacks. However, the restaurants prefer the illegals, who can be paid less and not given benefits.

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@Advocate,

LOL

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There is some empircal and verifiable evidence that illegal immigration has created at least some increase in unemployment among black people and there is a growing perception among black people that illegal immigration does significantly impact them. Pro-amnesty for illegals groups have also put out reams of opinion that it is lack of education and skills among blacks that make them unemployable and not the illegals.

The truth is probably high or low somewhere around the middle.

But as long as as poor black voters, a primary constituency for the Democrats, are convinced that illegals are a problem for them, it is unlikely that the Demorats will be aggressively concilitary toward the illegals. Of course the Democrats use those illegals, at least their supporters, as a significant voting block for themselves too, so they're dealing with this very very cautiously and are not likely to get really tough on the illegals either.

As long as you have fanatics like O'bill screaming bigotry and racism and accusing anybody who doesn't welcome with open arms anybody who wants to be here of wanting to starve children, as well as those on the other side who just want to slam the door and keep everybody out period, there is unlikely to be much constructive dialogue happening to resolve the situation in the best way possible.

Those that haven't 'heard' about black people complaining about illegal immigration, however, aren't keeping up with the news very well.

Quote:

Black Community Debates Impact of Illegal Immigrants
by Ina Jaffe
Listen Now add to playlist
All Things Considered, May 2, 2006 · In Los Angeles, huge immigrant rallies and this week's boycott have drawn a mixed response from African-Americans. Although some black leaders support the protests, many African-American residents say that illegal immigrants are taking jobs from their community.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5377324

Quote:

Thursday, March 5, 2009

Black Activists Joining Minutemen Against Illegal Immigration By Digger
It seems the black community is starting to wake up to the truth about illegal immigration and it's impact on them. While illegal aliens have continued to drive down wages and hurt those in this country whose livelihood depends on manual labor, the activists in the black community have actually supported them -- if you can believe that.

Just recently it was discovered that at one single placement agency alone, over 70 construction workers -- who were predominantly black -- in the Katrina recovery region were replaced by illegal aliens. This is one agency. Multiply that by all the agencies in the region and you'll see what a travesty is being placed on the black community by illegal immigration. These are Americans who want to work, not people looking for a handout.

Now they are starting to speak out against the injustices illegal immigration places on those they claim to defend and support.

CBS
http://todaysnewsnj.blogspot.com/2009/03/black-activists-joining-minutemen.html

Quote:

Immigrants A Scapegoat For Blacks' Unemployment
By DeWayne Wickham
USA Today
August 7, 2007
One of the most interesting, and possibly decisive, tugs of war in the immigration policy debate is happening largely beneath the radar of this nation's media organizations.

Back in May, Rep. Lamar Smith, R-Texas, sent a letter to the heads of four civil rights groups that he hoped would change the political landscape of this debate. He urged them to join him in speaking out against the immigration reform bill backed by President Bush and Senate Democrats.

"The simple law of supply and demand dictates that flooding the job market with cheap foreign labor will undermine any initiatives that help the African-American population," wrote Smith, the ranking Republican on the House Judiciary Committee. Though the Senate proposal would have provided a pathway to citizenship for many of this country's 12 million illegal immigrants, Smith said it would "devastate job opportunities for millions of African-Americans."

While this argument "" that blacks are disproportionately losing jobs to illegal immigrants who take low-paying jobs "" has been around for some time, it hadn't gotten any traction among mainstream civil rights groups. That seemed to change on May 9, when the head of Miami's Urban League affiliate tied illegal immigration to unemployment of black men.

"Immigration isn't the whole reason for the drop in employment of black men; it's not even half the reason. But it is the largest single reason," T. Willard Fair testified before a House panel on immigration.
http://www.jobbankusa.com/News/Unemployment/scapegoat_for_unemployment.html

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@Foxfyre,

Quote:

Pro-amnesty for illegals groups have also put out reams of opinion that it is lack of education and skills among blacks that make them unemployable and not the illegals.

This is a bald-faced lie.

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@OCCOM BILL,

OCCOM BILL wrote:

In the mean time I wish you’d reconsider your apparent endorsement of post that calls for state sponsored child neglect and abuse. It doesn’t reflect well on you.

your attitude on this issue is really perplexing. i find it difficult to reconcile it with your professed right wing beliefs about the war in iraq.

when i first joined in the fun on a2k in 2003, you were one of the people that was in all seriousness ending many of your tirades against the anti-war citizens with the right-wing speak of the day; "why do you hate america"?

so, i have to wonder why someone with such "america first" beliefs would act as such a strong advocate for people who's first act upon entering your country is an illegal one.

i guess the real question is; how are you personally benefiting from the presence of illegal immigrants to the point that you are putting your country secondary to your previously stated love of country?

btw, are you still in the restaurant business?

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@DontTreadOnMe,

He claims he left that business, where he employed illegals. He also stated that his Latin employees were superior.

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@DontTreadOnMe,

I will let Occom Bill defend himself (since he is fully capable of this). But I do wish that DTOM, Advocate and Foxfyre were able to discuss this issue rationally without name calling, personal attacks and thinly veiled insinuations.

The fact is that lots of Americans... a majority of us in fact, support immigration reform that includes a path a citizenship. A great number of us (although not a majority) go further than this that we should treat people here as human beings.

Pro-amnesty groups (defined as people who support a path to citizenship) include the NAACP, ACLU, SPLC as well as unions and religious groups from the Quakers to Methodists to Catholics to Jewish congregations. Pro-amnesty people include labor leaders, law-enforcement officials, and politicians as diverse as Barack Obama and John McCain.

There are plenty of reasons given to support a path to support illegal people. There is compassion (not wanting to break families). There are labor issues (keeping people from having rights hurts all workers). There are people who reject the racism in the debate.

Defamation of immigrants is one thing. Defamation of Americans simply because they disagree with you is ridiculous.

DTOM, I thought you were classier than this.

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@ebrown p,

ebrown p wrote:

...Defamation of Americans simply because they disagree with you is ridiculous.

and that is why you call anyone who believes that, while immigrants are a welcome and important part of the american landscape, they should enter the country through legal means, a racist ? a bigot? a discompassionate monster?

so... tell me; hows that approach been working for ya ?

we've been over this a gazzilion times, e. you know where i stand on all of this. i live elbow to elbow with immigrants all day, every day. i get along with immigrants just fine. except for one group who are so full of crap and aggressive nonsense that it is impossible to deal with them on any level.

they are white.

DTOM, I thought you were classier than this.

you consider it classless to call bullshit when someone has obviously crafted their opinion to jive with what benefits them personally? i'm surprised that you aren't wondering about the guy's bizarre 180 from his previously stated hard right, america first rhetoric. especially considering that you have been so vocal about the iraq war, along with the rest of us, over the years.

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@DontTreadOnMe,

Saying that people should enter the country through legal means is not what makes you a bigot. It is the lies, defamation and thinly veiled plays to racial fears that makes one a bigot. I would have no problem with someone who could make the argument against "amnesty" (or whatever it is you are arguing against) without screaming about invasion, leprosy or hyped crime statistics.

People against "amnesty" who don't say bigoted things are few and far between... but it is not being against "amnesty" that makes them a bigot.

And, if it is bizarre for Bill to be in favor of the Iraq war (and I will let him define his own stance on this) yet in favor of a compassionate immigration policy... Why isn't it just as bizarre for you to oppose Iraq while supporting harsh immigration policy?

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What should be done about illegal immigration?

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