50
   

What should be done about illegal immigration?

 
 
Brandon9000
 
  -3  
Reply Sat 20 Sep, 2008 09:16 pm
@Foxfyre,
If I want my country's immigration laws enforced, if I want to preserve the culture and language of my 0wn country, I'm a racist. I'm so sick of this. That line of baloney has obliterated any sympathy I might have had for the illegals. I want all the illegals from every foreign country out, and I don't care what it takes to do it, or what it costs.
Robert Gentel
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Sep, 2008 09:36 pm
@Brandon9000,
What tenuous "sympathy" that must have been if feeling personally slighted is enough to justify driving them out by any means at any cost.
Fountofwisdom
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Dec, 2008 01:22 pm
Yes all you immigrants should go home: the pilgrim fathers, and their slaves. people have been moving since Cain slew Abel, and ran East of Eden. You can no more stop immigration than you can curiousity: people want to move. Some people are born in crap places, they want to move to better ones. This is not a crime, its human nature.
Fountofwisdom
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Dec, 2008 01:24 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Countries are pieces of land: they don't have languages. Learn Apache and move to California
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Dec, 2008 05:55 pm
@Fountofwisdom,
It's nice to see a username that fulfills its promise. It makes a change.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Dec, 2008 10:42 pm
@Fountofwisdom,
Fountofwisdom wrote:

Yes all you immigrants should go home: the pilgrim fathers, and their slaves. people have been moving since Cain slew Abel, and ran East of Eden. You can no more stop immigration than you can curiousity: people want to move. Some people are born in crap places, they want to move to better ones. This is not a crime, its human nature.


Wrong. If all immigrants returned to their countries of origin, I would lose a hefty chunk of my family--Mexican, Italian, et al. And I'm quite fond of each and every one. This country was built on the willing and able backs of immigrants and there was a time that we needed all we could get. Since then we have become much more populated, more civilized and a people of laws. Disregard enough of those laws and we will be much less civilized meaning that our unalienable rights, freedoms, and peace will no longer be enforceable.

Immigration laws exist to ensure that would-be new Americans are admitted in such numbers and in an orderly fashion to ensure that social services are not stretched to the breaking point and that new Americans can be assimilated efficiently into the population in which the cultures they brings will blend into and enrich our uniquely American culture. Otherwise the country will erode in both quality of life and in the American dream being available for all which is why people want to come here in the first place.

It is for those reasons that most of us want the immigration laws enforced, strengthened, and streamlined and why we oppose illegal immigration and also any form of amnesty which has invariable increased the flood of illegal immigrants into the country. It is NOT any kind of opposition to immigrants.

(P.S. A desire to send the illegals home does not need to translate into inhumanely rounding everybody up and deporting them en masse.)
okie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Dec, 2008 11:45 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:
.

(P.S. A desire to send the illegals home does not need to translate into inhumanely rounding everybody up and deporting them en masse.)

Fact is, alot have already gone home due to some better enforcement of employers illegal hiring practices, and because of a lesser economy here. This confirms what conservatives have been saying all along, we don't need to round up illegals, all we have to do is enforce the laws we have and they won't try to come here in massive numbers and many of the ones here will also go home voluntarily, no need to round them up. One important law is to enforce the laws against hiring illegals. This has disproven what alot of the polticians were saying, such as McCain, that it wouldn't work. It does work if you try it.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2008 07:57 am
@Fountofwisdom,
Fountofwisdom wrote:

Yes all you immigrants should go home: the pilgrim fathers, and their slaves. people have been moving since Cain slew Abel, and ran East of Eden. You can no more stop immigration than you can curiousity: people want to move. Some people are born in crap places, they want to move to better ones. This is not a crime, its human nature.

No, just the illegal ones. Every country, or virtually so, claims the right to regulate immigration. You certainly can stop it if you have the will to. All it would take would be to enforce very heavy fines for hiring illegals, and they would simply all leave of their own volition.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jan, 2009 03:00 am
The EU just started a satellite system to track illegal immigrants:
Quote:
A satellite system linking two continents became the latest weapon in Europe's armoury against illegal immigration yesterday, as police forces in countries as far apart as Spain, Senegal and Mauritania were hooked up to a single high-speed communications and data network.

The EU-funded Sea Horse system helps relocate the effort to prevent illegal immigration from the coast of Africa, with stations opened in port cities such as Dakar in Senegal, Praia in Cape Verde and Nouadhibou in Mauritania.

The system should allow police to track immigrant vessels, as they are spotted travelling up the Atlantic coast of Africa and then veering west in search of the Canary Islands or heading north for the southern shores of Spain or Portugal.

Police can plot charts and draw up shared maps of where vessels carrying would-be illegal immigrants are going and what routes they follow.



0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 8 Jan, 2009 03:37 am
Too many illegal aliens that are deported
simply turn around and COME BACK; while leaving,
thay even say that thay will come back OPENLY.

We need to do something to them
that will be DISSUASIVE of their returning here;
maybe whipping with the application of salt.

We need to do SOMETHING that works.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  2  
Reply Thu 8 Jan, 2009 10:11 am
The only way to keep undocumented aliens from remaining in the removal of there source of income by the imposition of crushing fines upon those who employ them.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jan, 2009 10:41 am
@au1929,
au1929 wrote:

The only way to keep undocumented aliens from remaining
in the removal of there source of income by the imposition
of crushing fines upon those who employ them.

I presume that u refer to illegal aliens,
not just those without documents, but
HOW is it possible for an American businessman
to discriminate between them and ourselves who r born here ?

We have to carry our birth certificates with us ?





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Thu 8 Jan, 2009 11:10 am
We r letting the illegal aliens who sneak into America
get away with violating our law. We shoud inflict
a penalty
upon them; its not right that thay shoud get away with it
and then breed, after thay r here, thereby influencing our political demografics.





David
teenyboone
 
  2  
Reply Thu 8 Jan, 2009 11:37 am
@au1929,
I agree! Fine them heavily and the employers who hire these illegals.
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jan, 2009 12:00 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
nd then breed, after thay r here, thereby influencing our political demografics.


Did you breed, David? (I shure hope not).
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jan, 2009 12:08 pm
@au1929,
au1929 wrote:

The only way to keep undocumented aliens from remaining in the removal of there source of income by the imposition of crushing fines upon those who employ them.


That was attempted in both the Carter and Reagan administrations, but it proved to simply be unenforceable.

We employers were required to obtain three positive proofs of identification for each new hire--a birth certificate, a passport, a driver's license, a utility bill, etc. It sometimes took a person, especially one who had just moved and had everything packed away, some time to locate such documents. When you lose an employee and must replace him/her immediately, it proved to be unworkable to wait and it too often wasn't followed up. Or, employers reverted to exclusive use of day workers to avoid detection and that eliminated permanent steady jobs that might otherwise have been created. For more permanent jobs that still existed, a booming cottage industry producing phony documents immediately sprang up. It was simply unreasonable to require every employer to have the skill or ability to recognize phony papers from real ones.

It will require a multi-pronged approach I think.

1. Yes, do impose fines and penalities on those employers that knowingly recuit and hire illegals if that can be proved as well as those employers who pay illegals wages below scale for the area.

2. Enact laws exempting schools, social service agencies, and medical services from the requirement to serve illegals for other than obvious emergencies. That would allow humanitarian effort to prevent imminent death or starvation without creating a network of services that illegals could tap for free.

3. Remove the silly restrictions imposed on law enforcement so that they can reasonably check, identify, and arrest persons who are in the country illegally.

4. Enact a universal English-only law instead of requiring accommodation for those who cannot speak English. American citizens should be able to read road signs in English and pass required tests such as for a driver's license in English. Such laws would not forbid accommodation of other languages, but the law would no longer require them.

5. We need better and more streamlined immigration policies that eliminate unnecessary red tape and make it more efficient for people to immigrate legally and be more easily assimilated effectively into the existing American culture. Such persons should desire American citizenship because they want to be Americans and they should be willing to learn and obey our laws and learn English.

4. Finally we need a better system by which employers who cannot hire enough Americans to work to be able to legally recruit and import temporary workers from Mexico or wherever and see that such workers return home immediately upon completion of the job. Employers should not be able to abuse such guest workers but either provide or ensure that adequate shelter, food, transportation etc. is available and must pay the same wage that American workers would require. (This would effectively ensure that Americans would be recruited and be given priority in hiring, but would allow recruitment of guest workers as necessary to get the job done.) Guest workers should not be allowed to bring in nonworking members of their families, etc. with them.

5. Finally, once a practical guest workers program is in place, we need one more short period of amnesty--say 90 to 180 days--for those here illegally now to return to their native country and come back through the legal guest worker process. That would mean that they need a sponsor and be able to prove that they have a bonafide job waiting for them. Such persons would be eligible to apply for and receive a green card and/or citizenship though they would have to get in line and take their turn for consideration with all who have applied for citizenship through legal channels.

6. Those unwilling to accept these terms and choose to remain in the country illegally would be subject to arrest and deportation and such deportation should be to some far distant point where it would be difficult to sneak right back across the border. Those who have seriously broken our laws--jaywalking would not be a disqualifier for instance, but being intentionally in the country illegally would--would not be eligible for either guest workers permits, green cards, or citizenship.

7. Finally there are those cases where you have persons who have grown up here and effectively have no 'home country' other than the USA and other isolated situations of particular hardship. I would favor the government setting up an independent qualified group to evaluate these cases and perhaps allow special congressional dispensation. This would almost certainly be the exception instead of the rule.

Some of the problem has been relieved as work has dried up in a lot of labor intensive small business and the workers went home. But the situation remains unacceptable for numerous reasons. We cannot continue to allow a flood of undocumented persons to strain our schools, labor, and social services and continue to dilute a common language until these break down entirely and we look more like the places they have attempted to escape from which would be compassionate to nobody. We do not have to be cruel or hateful in any way to fix the problem. But it does require common sense and being proactive.








teenyboone
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jan, 2009 12:18 pm
@Foxfyre,
These are enforceable if there is an initiative attached, such as monetary rewards, etc. Also, employment would be encouraged if native Americans were employed with a reasonable wage!
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jan, 2009 12:28 pm
@teenyboone,
The initiative of being legal and the consequences for being illegal should be enough, but I agree that incentives to encourage employers to recruit 'guest workers' from the reservations where unemployment is typically very high would be a good thing.

I should have added another 'finally'--I kept thinking of something else and waitied too long to edit some of those out Smile--we should amend the Constitution to add a requirement that at least one parent must be a U.S. citizen in order for a child born in this country to receive automatic citizenship.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jan, 2009 12:44 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:
-we should amend the Constitution to add a requirement that at least one parent must be a U.S. citizen in order for a child born in this country to receive automatic citizenship.

I remember that the the differences between the US' ius soli and ius sanguines and the modified versions of both have been discussed here a couple of times during the last years ...

0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jan, 2009 12:59 pm
Foxfyre, when will you accept the reality that we live in a democracy?

The problem with your views on immigration is that they have been consistently losing elections. There is a small, but vocal, group that are pushing this issue for whatever reason-- but it continues to lose ground.

The ethnic parts of your immigration views, especially the "English only" stuff have nothing to do with any of the other immigration issue (i.e. jobs, rule of law or spending) and really upset an important part of the electorate whose members (although you may not think it fair) have a vote exactly equal to yours. This combined with the clearly racial parts of the argument are real political losers.

The fact the American electorate will never allow an English only law... and we will never accept the Constitutional change to strip citizenship from babies. Not only will these things never happen, that they are being attempted upsets a large number of American voters.

The irony is that this issue is at the forefront of the demise of the conservative movement (and the part of the Republican party they represent).

At some point there will be a more progressive immigration policy enacted that will focus on compassion instead of enforcement. It will almost certainly contain a path to citizenship (as well as moderate border security provisions that probably you and I would agree on).

The longer the right blocks this-- the more it will hurt the Republican party and the conservative movement in general.

That being said... I still think we should resolve this sooner rather than later.




 

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