What should be done about illegal immigration?

Most new immigrants to the US were considered "underclass." Nothing shameful or negative about that! It's about the opportunities afforded new immigrants to the US that attracts most, and the freedoms (we used to enjoy before the Bush regime took over the administration) are also attractions for new immigrants.

ci - please explain what freedoms you personally have lost under Bush.

I dare ya.

Here is a copy of an e-mail making the rounds. I think it is unassailable.


>> This English teacher has phrased it the best I've seen yet
>>
>> Tomatoes and Cheap
>> Labor
>>
>> CHEAP TOMATOES?
>> This should make everyone think, be you Democrat, Republican
>> or Independent
>>
>> From a California school teacher - - -
>>
>>
>> "As you listen to the news about the student protests over
>> illegal immigration, there are some things that you should
>> be aware of:
>>
>> I am in charge of the English-as-a-second-language
>> department at a large southern California high school which
>> is designated a Title 1 school, meaning that its students
>> average lower socioeconomic and income levels.
>>
>> Most of the schools you are hearing about, South Gate High,
>> Bell Gardens ,
>> Huntington Park , etc., where these students are protesting,
>> are also Title
>> 1 schools.
>>
>> Title 1 schools are on the free breakfast and free lunch
>> program. When I say
>> free breakfast, I'm not talking a glass of milk and roll --
>> but a full breakfast and cereal bar with fruits and juices
>> that would make a Marriott
>> proud. The waste of this food is monumental, with trays and
>> trays of it being dumped in the trash uneaten. ( OUR TAX
>> DOLLARS AT WORK )
>>
>> I estimate that well over 50% of these students are obese or
>> at least moderately overweight. About 75% or more DO have
>> cell phones. The school also provides day care centers for
>> the unwed teenage pregnant girls (some as
>> young as 13) so they can attend class without the
>> inconvenience of having to
>> arrange for babysitters or having family watch their kids.
>> (OUR TAX DOLLARS
>> AT WORK)
>>
>> I was ordered to spend $700,000 on my department or risk
>> losing funding for the upcoming year even though there was
>> little need for anything; my budget was already substantial.
>> I ended up buying new com puters
>> for the computer learning center, half of which, one month
>> later, have been
>> carved with graffiti by the appreciative students who
>> obviously feel humbled
>> and grateful to have a free education in America .
>> (OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK)
>>
>> I have had to intervene several times for young and
>> substitute teachers whose classes consist of many illegal
>> immigrant students here in the country
>> less then 3 months who raised so much hell with the female
>> teachers, calling
>> them "Putas" whores and throwing things that the teachers
>> were in tears.
>>
>> Free medical, free education, free food, day
>> care
>> etc., etc, etc. Is it any wonder they feel entitled to not
>> only be in this
>> country but to demand rights, privileges and entitlements ?
>>
>> To those who want to point out how much these illegal
>> immigrants contribute
>> to our society because they LIKE their gardener and
>> housekeeper and they like to pay less for tomatoes: spend
>> some t ime in the real world of illegal
>> immigration and see the TRUE costs.
>>
>> Higher insurance, medical facilities closing , higher
>> medical costs, more
>> crime, lower standards of education in our schools,
>> overcrowding, new diseases etc., etc, etc . For me, I'll pay
>> more for tomatoes.
>>
>> We need to wake up. The guest worker program will be a
>> disaster because we
>> won't have the guts to enforce it . Does anyone in their
>> right mind really
>> think they will voluntarily leave and return?
>>
>>
>> It does, however, have everything to do with culture: A
>> third-world culture
>> that does not value education , that accepts children
>> getting pregnant and
>> dropping out of school by 15 and that refuses
>> to assimilate , and an American culture that has become so
>> weak and worried
>> about " politically correctness" that we don't have the will
>> to do anything
>> about it.
>>
>> If this makes your blood boil , as it did mine, forward this
>> to everyone you
>> know.
>>
>> CHEAP LABOR? Isn't that what the whole immigration issue is
>> about?
>>
>> Business doesn't want to pay a decent
>> wage.
>>
>> Consumers don't want expensive produce.
>>
>> Government will tell you Americans don't want the jobs.
>>
>> But the bottom line is cheap labor. The phrase "cheap labor"
>> is a myth , a
>> farce, and a lie. There is no such thing as "cheap labor."
>>
>>
>> Take, for example, an illegal alien with a wife and five
>> children. He takes
>> a job for
>> $5.00 or 6.00/hour. At that wage, with six dependents, he
>> pays no income tax, yet at the end of the year, if he files
>> an Income Tax Return, he gets
>> an " earned income credit" of up to $3,200 free.
>>
>> He qualifies for Section 8 housing and subsidized rent.
>>
>> He qualifies
>> for food stamps.
>>
>> He qualifies for free (no deductible, no co-pay) health
>> care.
>>
>> His children get free breakfasts and lunches
>> at school.
>> He requires bilingual teacher s and books.
>>
>> He qualifies for relief from high energy bills.
>>
>> If they are or become, aged, blind or disabled , they
>> qualify for SSI. Once
>> qualified for SSI they can qualify for Medicare. All of this
>> is at (our) taxpayer's expense .
>>
>> He doesn't worry about car insurance, life insurance, or
>> homeowners insurance.
>>
>> Taxpayers provide Spanish language signs, bulletins and
>> printed material.
>>
>> He and his family receive the equivalent of $20.00 to
>> $30.00/hour in benefits.
>>
>> Working Americans
>> are lucky to have $5.00 or $6.00/hour left after paying
>> their bills and his.
>>
>>
>> The American taxpayers also pay for increased crime,
>> graffiti and trash clean-up.
>>
>> Cheap labor? YEAH RIGHT! Wake up people!

There is no sucker like the American taxpayer.

It has been my experience that the children of immigrants are MUCH more appreciative of educational opportunities. What this school official is criticizing is the behavior of underclass AMERICAN children who are very unappreciative of what is offered here--something commented on as far back as in the movie "Blackboard Jungle". And it's no wonder considering the values instilled by the mass entertainment industry. The models of "gangstas", and continuously rehabed kids have nothing to do with the values needed for a serious life.
But we now have a chance to blame it on foreigners.

That is no rebuttal. Why should the American taxpayer who is being hard pressed to make ends meet have to pay for the benefits that both the legal and illegal immigrants receive. Sure we are all descended from immigrants however there was no one waiting at the border with a handout. It was swim or sink.

au1929, I have no time to waste talking to people with your attitude.

JLNobody

I suppose you only have time to view your side of the coin.

Both sides of the coin consist of both facts and feelings. We interpret the facts from the perspective of our feelings or general attitude. The mean-spiritedness of xenophobics is something only a psychotherapist should have to deal with. Not me.

Today, descendants of European immigrants are acknowledging their gratitude to the Indian hosts who accepted those immigrants and permitted them to enjoy a bountiful harvest. Now some of those defendants are showing a much less generous attitude (than that of our Indian hosts) toward immigrants from the south (and elsewhere). And we forget that people are coming north for survival not for profit and they are trying to survive conditions in their countries that the United States has historically fostered, NAFTA being only the most recent.

JLNobody
I must have a deficiency in history. I did not know tthe indians gave the settlers food stamps, housing, free medical care and SSI.
I do know that yesterdays immigrants did not receive handouts from the government.

See how you select/construct "facts" to validate your feelings? I could do the same, for example, noting that these people come to work very hard for little money and often pay into social security even though they'll never get any of it back--but I won't.

I've seen you argue points rationally on other threads, but this is not one in which I want to engage you.

JLN, Good observation; our perceptions are based on our personal experiences, but they change as personal conditions change. Some forget our past which is unfortunate. Some never learn humility.

Yeah, and after those settlers did to watch the Indian's kids, picked the indian's vegetables and worked hard landscaping the Indians big houses, you think the settler's should have gotten something from them.

I heard the settler's did actually pay into the Indians social security system even though they didn't get anything in return.

Aren't the cops being paid to stop illegal activities?

Excellent point about those Native Americans, JLN. Their population is down, they have to speak a foreign language, and their culture and traditions have been so deminished as to become a curiosity. Now, had they had a well thought out immigration policy and the will and means to enforce it, they would probably be much better off, at least in some cultural/spiritual sense.

Roger - this info is erroneous. There are many more American Indians (that's what the Bureau of Indian Affairs calls them, "native" is no longer politically correct) alive today than on the day the Mayflower docked.
http://www.doi.gov/bia/labor.html

Before we can do any "interpreting" of facts we must KNOW the facts.

See above link.

That's an interesting response. Especially when looking at your next




So, HS, how many were living in the Americas when the Mayflower arrived? How do you get the figures for what is now the USA?

Do you compare them? To the number of "whites"? To the Spaniards?

What about those numbers published for the 15th century (between 8.4 million to a high of 112.5 million persons)?

This a post from another thread concerning the treatment of native peoples by the American colonists.

The killing of the indians was true enough. Interestingly, at least East of the Mississippi, most of the extermination took place during the Seven Years War between the British and the French (or the French & Indian War as we knew it). Both European nations used allied Indian tribes to war against each other and, when they found it useful, the colonists themselves. This struggle ended whatever peaceful cohabitation there had been up to that point, and led to the demise of the Iriquois and Huron confederations of native tribes in the East.

It is also worth recognizing that, despite the traditional Anglo Saxon demonizing of the Spanish colonial system compared to their own, the survival of native populations as well as their languages and cultures was far greater in the Spanish colonies than in those dominated by the British.

What happened west of the Mississippi (and in areas of the southeast) was entirely of our own doing and responsibility. It was motivated by greed and fear.

ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT
Chertoff Blames Border Crossers For Land Damage
Tuesday, October 2, 2007; Page A17


Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, whose department has come under fire from environmentalists for fencing off hundreds of miles of the U.S. border with Mexico at Congress's request, said yesterday that he knows of something worse for nature than a wall: illegal immigrants.

"Illegal migrants really degrade the environment. I've seen pictures of human waste, garbage, discarded bottles and other human artifact in pristine areas," Chertoff told the Associated Press, in remarks confirmed by his spokesman. "And believe me, that is the worst thing you can do to the environment."

Chertoff spoke as DHS announced it has more than doubled the number of miles of border fencing in the year that ended Sunday, to more than 150. The agency is on track to meet a goal of 370 miles of fencing and 200 miles of vehicle barriers along the 2,000-mile border with Mexico by the end of 2008.

Last week, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers said it will conduct environmental impact studies on two proposed stretches of fencing, one extending about 70 miles southeast of Rio Grande City in south Texas and another about four miles east of San Diego.

Environmentalists say studies are being done piecemeal and were neglected at six active construction sites in Arizona. They say fences affect migratory and mating patterns and destroy habitats used by 500 kinds of birds, as well as threatened species such as jaguars and the Sonoran pronghorn antelope. Construction crews and the Border Patrol use off-road vehicles that worsen the environmental damage caused by immigrants, they say.

Yesterday, the Sierra Club and Defenders of Wildlife appealed to the Interior Department to stop construction in a wildlife area on the San Pedro River in southeastern Arizona.


Congress has given Chertoff authority to waive legal requirements, including environmental laws, to build border barriers. Pending legislation could require DHS to consult with local and federal agencies to minimize environmental damage.


-- Spencer S. Hsu

--Wash. Post