What should be done about illegal immigration?

I think you must have missed the point of my post, Walter, but since you ask that unrelated question, I would say no. In fact, the Census Bureau is doing alot more than they need to do, alot of it rather pointless and superfluous, and not what the Census Bureau was originally charged to do.

Coalition formed to address illegals
By Natasha Altamirano
September 14, 2007

Virginia localities are forming a coalition to collectively address problems associated with illegal aliens.



Culpeper County officials, who are leading the initiative, sent out more than 450 invitations to the governments of every county, city and town in the state. So far, the county has received responses from 19 localities that want to participate, Culpeper County Administrator Frank Bossio said yesterday.



Amherst, Prince William and Spotsylvania counties are the only jurisdictions that have taken official action on the coalition, said Mr. Bossio, who declined to identify the other 16 willing to participate.



The coalition is being formed now that Gov. Timothy M. Kaine, a Democrat, has rejected requests for Virginia to create a statewide partnership with federal immigration officials that would allow state agencies to identify illegal aliens and begin deportation procedures. The partnership would have included the state police, the state Department of Corrections and the state Department of Motor Vehicles.



Mr. Kaine does not, however, object to localities entering into agreements with the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency. Several law-enforcement agencies have already entered into formal agreements, including Herndon police, the Prince William-Manassas Regional Adult Detention Center, the Loudoun Adult Detention Center and the sheriff's departments in Shenandoah and Rockingham counties.



The Spotsylvania County Board of Supervisors voted unanimously Tuesday to join the coalition and demand reimbursement from the state government for costs associated with illegal aliens.



"Going at this regionally strengthens our voice and leverages our authorities," said Supervisor Henry "Hap" Connors Jr., Chancellor District independent. "It also helps us spread the costs around."



Supervisors passed a separate resolution declaring English the county's official language, which the Culpeper County Board of Supervisors also did last month. The Code of Virginia already includes a provision declaring English as the commonwealth's official language.



Steven E. Nixon, vice chairman of the Culpeper County Board of Supervisors, said the coalition's first step is to gather facts.




"First, we'll determine what the real impact is, second, what that impact is costing us, third, how we combat the impact and fourth, how we can fix the problems," said Mr. Nixon, West Fairfax District Republican.




Mr. Bossio said the government leaders of the interested localities will meet early next month to discuss an agenda.




"Then we can say to ourselves, 'Here are things we see as a problem, here's the lawmaking capability we have and here are the things we want to ask the General Assembly to do,' " he said.




He added that the coalition also wants input from localities that say they aren't experiencing problems with illegal aliens.




Virginia lawmakers have established a commission to investigate the effects of illegal aliens on the state and help local governments navigate potential legal challenges when establishing enforcement policies.




The Prince William Board of County Supervisors next week is scheduled to hear a report from police Chief Charlie T. Deane on how his department plans to step up immigration enforcement. Supervisors in July unanimously passed a resolution that would require police officers to ask about immigration status in all arrests if there is probable cause to believe a suspect has violated federal immigration law.




The resolution also requires county staff to verify a person's legal status before providing certain public services.




Since then, several other Virginia jurisdictions have passed or considered immigration-related resolutions, including Chesterfield, Culpeper, James City, Loudoun, Page, Spotsylvania and Stafford counties and the city of Manassas.




Virginia Attorney General Robert F. McDonnell, a Republican, said his powers are not as broad as those of New Jersey's attorney general, who has ordered state and local police to notify federal immigration officials when an illegal alien is arrested for an indictable offense or drunken driving. The decision was made in part to create a statewide policy on immigration enforcement after a suspect in the Aug. 4 execution-style killings of three Newark, N.J., college students was found to be an illegal alien who was granted bail on child rape and aggravated assault charges

GOP bill targets 'sanctuary cities'
By Jerry Seper
September 19, 2007

A group of House Republicans has introduced legislation designed to "send a loud and clear message" to a growing number of "sanctuary cities" across the country, saying those who offer safe harbor to illegal aliens will not be tolerated.




The bill, written by Rep Ginny Brown-Waite of Florida, would make illegal immigration a felony and would clarify that state and local law enforcement has existing authority to investigate, identify, apprehend, arrest, detain and transfer to federal authorities any illegal alien apprehended in the course of routine duties.




Known as the Accountability in Enforcing Immigration Laws Act of 2007, it also would require U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents to take illegal aliens into custody or pay state and local governments the per-diem rate to detain them until they are removed.




The bill faces an uphill fight in Congress since Republicans are in the minority. Previous efforts to pass similar legislation failed, but the newly proposed measure has drawn support from state and local government officials.




"It's the counties and cities that get hit hardest by illegal immigration," said Rep. Brian P. Bilbray of California, chairman of the Congressional Immigration Reform Caucus and a co-sponsor of the bill. He said in San Diego County alone, taxpayers are footing a $101 million a year bill for the health care and public safety costs of illegal immigration.




"During a time when our borders are being used as gateways for terrorists, drug cartels and human smuggling ... there is no justification for knowingly providing illegal immigrants with sanctuary from detection, arrest and prosecution," he said.




Mrs. Brown-Waite described sanctuary cities as those with ordinances that prevent cooperation between local police and federal immigration authorities. She said some police departments are prohibited from checking a person's immigration status in the course of routine duties.




By failing to notify immigration officials, she said these "wrongheaded policies" ensure that illegal aliens who have been ordered deported or might be on terrorist watch lists will remain at large in the community.

"When cities proclaim they will not check immigration status, they essentially become a safe haven for not only out-of-status immigrants, but criminal aliens who have often committed violent atrocities in our country," she said.



The bill also would withhold 25 percent of non-emergency Homeland Security funding for sanctuary cities and would authorize $1 billion for a federal program that provides funding to states and localities for jailing criminal aliens.



Mrs. Brown-Waite also cited thwarted terrorist plots in New York, Germany and South Carolina as examples of the continued desire of anti-U.S. radicals to inflict harm on the United States and its allies

We need more illegals.


http://www.nbc11.com/news/14296744/detail.html

Documented migrant farm workers who actually go home instead of illegals taking up residence here and demanding full rights as Americans? Isn't there a difference? Not in liberal lalaland.

Perhaps they could pay more to hire people to pick the fruit? Maybe hire the homeless. I know a family in Mass that seems to need a job.

McGentrix, they would rather hire migrants at slave wages instead of a living wage.

If the Democrats cared about enhancing wages, they would quit their feel goodism with the minimum wage law and instead throw heavy fines to any employer that hires illegal aliens.

they would rather hire migrants at slave wages instead of a living wage.


Well said.
Respect and regard

There is good evidence that large, populous areas of the United States will be submerged this century by the rising seas. I believe that this is a good argument for limiting both legal and illegal immigration. For instance, should New York be submerged, those people will have to move elsewhere in the country, draining jobs and resources.

Bangkok Sinking Under Rising Seas
Major Cities Around the World at Risk of Being Swamped
AP

KHUN SAMUT CHIN, Thailand (Oct. 20) - At Bangkok's watery gates, Buddhist monks cling to a shrinking spit of land around their temple as they wage war against the relentlessly rising sea. Jutting above the water line just ahead in the Gulf of Thailand are remnants of a village that has already slipped beneath the sea.

Experts say these waters, aided by sinking land, threaten to submerge Thailand's sprawling capital of more than 7 million people within this century. Bangkok is one of many of the world's largest cities at risk of being swamped as sea levels rise in coming decades, according to warnings at the recent Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change held here.

New Immigration Bill
Here is an e-mail I received from Sen. Jim Demint.

Dear Friend,

********

Once again, the Democrat Senate attempted and failed to ram an amnesty bill through Congress. The large majority of Republicans rejected this attempt to reward illegal behavior because the American people have rightly demanded that we first secure our borders, enforce our laws, and create a legal immigration system that works.

While advocates of the DREAM Act claimed it would be narrowly targeted to help children forced to come to the United States by their parents, the bill actually would have permitted millions to gain amnesty within a system ripe for fraud and abuse.

The Democrat DREAM Act would have allowed any illegal immigrant (including those with criminal records such as a DUI conviction) under the age of 30 to apply for amnesty, as long as they claimed to have entered the country before the age of 16. Once the person is given legal status under the DREAM Act, they would then be able to claim legal status for other family members -- including parents and siblings who brought them to the country illegally in the first place. Additionally, the DREAM Act would give illegal immigrants access to publicly funded universities and colleges at in-state tuition rates, as well as access to federal aid and student loans.

These rewards for illegal behavior would have only encouraged millions more to enter our country illegally.

It is certainly true that our government's failure to enforce its immigration laws has created many tragic circumstances for children and families, but the solution is not more of the same. We must have border security, enforce our laws and create a legal immigration system that works. Only after we have restored the confidence of the American people can we begin to solve the problems associated with those here illegally.

********

Considering the fact that there are in excess of 10 million "illegals" in this country, most of whom are working and more on the way all the time.....apparently most of them do not consider what they are being paid "slave wages".

It comes to follow, then, that those wages being paid to "illegals" are slave wages only from the point of view of Americans. The wages are just fine with the "illegals". (Otherwise they wouldn't be here!)

Also of note is the fact that what they earn constitutes a "living wage" to them. Not to mention that many of them seem to find money to send back to Mexico, to the tune of $20 Billion a year. (Last figure I heard on the matter.... unverified.)

In fact, the patterns observable with this latest "wave" of immigration (legal or not) dovetails exactly with previous "waves" as to jobs taken, usually the lowest of the lot. They work hard, are decent people (with the usual 10% exceptions) and I don't have a problem with that.

Sign 'em up, have 'em pay the taxes properly and be thankful we can still draw new blood into this country.

Halfback

Wise words. Immigrants are the fuel of the American social and economic engines. We have been skimming the adventurous risk-takers from troubled areas of the world since our birth. It is what makes us unique.

The nativist complaints of today aren't really very diferent from those of the 'Know-Nothings' of the late 19th century. They were wrong then and they are likely wrong now.

The problem is in our government that can't find the will and energy to align its laws and actions, and our Congress that can't rise above its sectarian self-interest.

Well said, georgeob. We need those workers to work in those industries most Americans are won't to do. Without them, many of our farms and businesses would go bankrupt, and close down. Those workers see their wages as opportunity for earning an honest living, and help their families back home with money they otherwise wouldn't be able to earn.

It's always a win-win, but many now in our country lacks the understanding of history and how most of our ancestors did the same work to get ahead.

That our government lacks the wherewithal to enforce legislation they themselves write into law is not the problem of the immigrants. Most of us in similar circumstances would do the same; who wouldn't?

One problem is that the illegals are driving down the wages of those who are most in need. Further, they are crowding the country when there are dire shortages of water, land, services for citizens, etc. Many are poor and ill and put a strain on public services, driving up the taxes for citizens.

The argument that we need huge numbers of immigrants is false. The most economically successful countries around the world (e.g., S. Korea, Japan, China, The Netherlands) take in very few immigrants. If the immigrants were so valuable to a country, who don't these and other countries have open-door policies. No, leave that to the USA, which is governed by fools.

Advocate, No, wages are driven down by world-wide competition. Show us evidence that illegal immigrants reduce wages in our country. That's the reason why many US companies are off-shoring offices and factories into countries with lower wages - to increase profit.

Where to begin?? The arguments offered above are, in each element, demonstrably false, and taken together inconsistent and even contradictory. A poorly put together assemblage of defective parts.

S. Korea, Japan, China, and The Netherlands are NOT the "most economically successful countries in the world". Each, in its own way is doing very well, but each (with the possible exception of Japan) has its own collection of unresolved economic and related social/political issues to deal with.

The United States - even with all the immigrants - has a higher real GDP per capita than any of the countries listed. In Europe, Norway, Denmark, Sweden and Ireland all have higher GDP/capita than The Netherlands. While the Scandanavians don't take in many immigrants, the Irish do, and they enjoy the highest growth rate. China, despite its explosive growth, is still not even among the top 100 nations in this measure. Moreover, the economic rebirth of China began only after it abandoned its former Xenophobia and started connecting its people and economy with others.

The United States - even with all the immigrants - has a much lower population density, and far more natural resources per capita than any of the countries Advocate listed, and indeed is more gifted in this area than almost all of the developed nations in the world. The notion that we face "dire shortages of water, land, services... " is patently absurd. (We are undergoing a drought cycle now - as we did previously during the 1930s - but our resources are ample, though wastefully used.)

Immigrants to this country are concentrated in the construction, agriculture and some sectors of the service industry. In general these are industries that the chronically poor in this country - for a variety of reasons - didn't serve at all, or only to a limited degree. Immigrants are not in the main driving out American competitors for their jobs (except perhaps in the IT industry, where Indians, often here only temporarily, are rapidly replacing a generation of American programmers and IT specialists). Instead they are willingly providing labor that few others were willing to take - and that benefits them and everyone else as well.

as Miller posted "What about the illegal immigrants in New Mexico" and my response is "What the fuc*K is that supposed to mean."
But then I wear a Stetson.

George AND I said:


Where to begin?? The arguments offered above are, in each element, demonstrably false, and taken together inconsistent and even contradictory. A poorly put together assemblage of defective parts.

S. Korea, Japan, China, and The Netherlands are NOT the "most economically successful countries in the world". Each, in its own way is doing very well, but each (with the possible exception of Japan) has its own collection of unresolved economic and related social/political issues to deal with.

GEORGE'S REBUTTAL IS SILLY. THE COUNTRIES I MENTIONED ARE ECONOMICALLY SUCCESSFUL. NO COUNTRY IS WITHOUT ECONOMIC CHALLENGES.

The United States - even with all the immigrants - has a higher real GDP per capita than any of the countries listed. In Europe, Norway, Denmark, Sweden and Ireland all have higher GDP/capita than The Netherlands. While the Scandanavians don't take in many immigrants, the Irish do, and they enjoy the highest growth rate. China, despite its explosive growth, is still not even among the top 100 nations in this measure. Moreover, the economic rebirth of China began only after it abandoned its former Xenophobia and started connecting its people and economy with others.

THE PER CAPITAL RESULT IS WHAT IS MOST IMPORTANT, AND IT IS GOING DOWN IN THE USA. THE DOLLAR IS SINKING OUT OF SIGHT, AND WE ARE, IN GENERAL, BECOMING A MUCH POORER COUNTRY.

The United States - even with all the immigrants - has a much lower population density, and far more natural resources per capita than any of the countries Advocate listed, and indeed is more gifted in this area than almost all of the developed nations in the world. The notion that we face "dire shortages of water, land, services... " is patently absurd. (We are undergoing a drought cycle now - as we did previously during the 1930s - but our resources are ample, though wastefully used.)

OUR SPACE IS WHAT MAKES THE USA THE GREAT PLACE THAT IT IS. BUT THIS IS BEING CHALLENGED BY UNCONTROLLED GROWTH. FOR EXAMPLE, ATLANTA HAS HORRIBLE AIR AND SUFFERS FROM TERRIBLE GRIDLOCK. AT THE MOMENT, IT HAS LESS THAN A 90-DAY WATER SUPPLY. EVERY RESPECTED EXPERT SAYS THAT WATER SCARCITY WILL INCREASE OVER THE YEARS AT A GREAT RATE. THE NUMBER OF WATER "WARS" IS SOARING.

Immigrants to this country are concentrated in the construction, agriculture and some sectors of the service industry. In general these are industries that the chronically poor in this country - for a variety of reasons - didn't serve at all, or only to a limited degree. Immigrants are not in the main driving out American competitors for their jobs (except perhaps in the IT industry, where Indians, often here only temporarily, are rapidly replacing a generation of American programmers and IT specialists). Instead they are willingly providing labor that few others were willing to take - and that benefits them and everyone else as well.

TAKE CONSTRUCTION -- ILLEGALS HOLD 42 % OF THE JOBS IN CONSTRUCTION. CONTRACTORS WHO FOLLOW THE LAW AND DON'T HIRE THEM CAN'T COMPETE. CITIZEN WORKERS, ESPECIALLY BLACKS WHO PREVIOUSLY HELD THE JOBS, ARE INCREASINGLY EXCLUDED FROM THE JOBS. ILLEGALS REALLY DON'T TAKE JOBS THAT OTHERS DON'T WANT. EMPLOYERS CAN PAY MORE AND GET CITIZENS.

Advocate: EMPLOYERS CAN PAY MORE AND GET CITIZENS.

Why? It's a free market environment. Businesses must choose their workers based on competition and skill levels.