What should be done about illegal immigration?

I had a new view, not that I didn't know it before and hadn't been there before, but I newly got a clue, how vast our US is, when I drove from near the Oregon border to New Mexico at Christmastime this last year.

I'm well aware of infrastructure questions and natural resourse questions, as those of us already here are galloping into our limited resources by ourselves.

But, me, I don't think the immigration via Mexico is, at this time, much of a question, though I admit some have come farther, and some few of those may be sculldugerous. First of all, Mexico was here in the first place. Second, I don't see the addition of population immediately as all that big a deal.

Illustrating what you descibed.

Actually, no, at least not all:

In that case, thank you.

Basically yes, although there is always more red tape than meets the eye. For example, they can send you home if you commit a crime. Also, you don't have a right to welfare payments, so if you can't support yourself, they can send you home for that as well. A couple of pages back, ehBeth posted a link to the Danish regulations. They give you a good idea of the small print. They also give you something close to the worst case scenario, coming from a country that has recently developed a reputation for tough immigration policy.

I don't see this as a race issue. I am not racist, and would feel the same if it were 12 million people here illegally from any other country.

I see it as a security issue, which should be self evident. "It" being the porous border, not South Americans.

I see it as a resource issue, as relates to our schools, taxes, medical assistance, etc. (Did you know our local Dept. of Social Services has a floor devoted to medical assistance for illegal aliens? Had I been an illegal alien when I needed financial assistance for a problem with my eyes, I would have gotten it. Being an American, I did not qualify. How compassionate is that? And, again, they could have been illegal aliens from anywhere in the world and it still wouldn't seem fair.)

Finally, I see it as an enforcement issue. If we can't enforce the law, ensuring that illegal aliens go through proper channels like every other country requires, so we know who is entering, then we might as well just build bridges with welcome signs. Is that what we should do?

It doesn't seem fair or right to me that people from any country should be allowed to stream into the US unchecked, then be rewarded with citizenship through amnesty, while people from truly repressive countries have to follow protocal to be allowed to come here.

Overall, it's a fairness / what's right issue. Not race.

source: Los Angeles Times, Thursday April 13, 2006, page A1 and A16
Online version

Full/exact wording of questions along with poll results and analysis

I agree with my wife... no surprise I suppose... these are not immigrants or guest workers they are people who entered this country illegally... no American will do their jobs? Bullshit. It's that American employers will have to match FICA and provide benefits to Americans instead of the large government they claim to oppose, that's what the hubub is about.

Deport every person in this country illegally, and let them try again through proper channels... no matter where they're from. That's that.

12 million, ok everyone line up.

why not? Seriously? Not trying to pick a fight... tell me why not?

I suppose, there's still some barbed wire from the GDR-border and pieces of the Berlin Wall available - although that's certainly not enough to secure the thousands of miles of land and water borderfront the USa has ...

(But some former Stasi will certainly give some good advice against good money.)

The lady Diane and meself were recently in Terlingua Texas (a wonderful and beautiful area) when I had last been there, there had been a ferry across the river (rio grande) by ferry i mean a raft with ropes to pull you across the river and people from either side could engage the ferry to cross the border for lunch or whatever, perhaps a dozen or so daily crossed the border. That is no longer existing because it was considered a security threat. People on both sides are irate.

Maybe we could stop beating this dead horse. Nobody on either side who has anything to say about it wants this flow of cheap labor to stop. Our xenophobic brethren with short memories of their own ancestry seem to be the only ones who have a half a care about this. That is, except for the illegals.

My origin solution, mandate a wage that pays above the poverty line for all jobs, was ignored. So my second solution is to do what we have done in the past. Take over Mexico and Central America. Then they are no longer illegals.

Just think how much cheap labor and cannon fodder, they would make good soldiers, we could have. We would have the numbers of fresh troops to take Iran and Syria and North Korea and maybe even China. Truly a great empire!

A day or two ago I made one of those 'thinking out loud' suggestions as something to at least consider.

Previous amnesty programs coupled with 'tough new rules and regulations re immigration' did absolutely nothing to slow the wave of illegals entering the country. Its just like a neon sign flashing "Come on in. You might have to dodge the INS at first, but if you manage to stay for awhile, a sort of a statute of limitations kicks in and the Americans will devise a way to let you say permanently."

This time a majority of Americans are no longer willing to have folks thumb their noses at our laws and, while a guest worker program is certainly okay, it must be done legally.

So....how about telling the illegals they have to go home first.....BUT.......their employer can bring them right back under a legal guest workers program? Anybody unwilling to use that option will still be illegal and will be deported if caught.

Both employers and workers would be required to show a valid green card or temporary guest work permit for any non citizen on the payroll, and this time we actually enforce that law. (There is already such a law on the books.) The work permits would be for a specific period of time and could be renewed. The employer could go to Mexico or anyplace else to hire workers and sign them up as temporary guest workers as needed or a whole new cottage industry could provide that service.

Guest workers could apply for citizenship of course, as can those who go home and don't come right back, but they would have to get in line with everybody else and behind those who have been waiting for years for approval of their immigration application. Anybody here illegally who is caught and deported would not be eligible for either a work permit or to apply for citizenship status. I think we should probably look at increasing the quotas too.

The devil is always in the details and I probably am overlooking some critical component here, but I think something along this line would be acceptable to a large majority of Americans.

Squinney - you say fairness? Haha... life ain't fair partner.

Blueveindedthrobber - It's tough to coordinate a camping trip with children... to plan a one way obligated visit to the relatives south of the border for 12 million... thats why you ain't a politician.

Fbaezer - well said.

This is the response I recieved from Senator Clinton regarding illegal immigrants

STATEMENT OF SENATOR HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON ON COMPREHENSIVE IMMIGRATION REFORM



March 8, 2006



Immigration is the lifeblood of America , a bedrock value tied to our founding and one that constantly renews the greatness of our country. America is and will always be a home for people who are willing to put in the hard work to create a better life for themselves and their families.


Our immigration system is in crisis. It is estimated that we have over 11 million undocumented immigrants in the United States , 1.7 million of whom are children. Our current laws fail by not providing adequately for our national security. Also as a result of our broken system, many families are forced apart, unable to reunite with their spouses, parents, children, and siblings because of a shortage of visas. Our current system allows unscrupulous employers to skirt our laws and exploit undocumented workers in the name of cheap labor . As a consequence of our broken immigration system, there is a huge drain on our state social services, including financial strains on our local and state law enforcement. The situation leaves us with a lot of tough choices. We have a system that is broken and we have to find practical but fair solutions to fix it.


I neither support illegal immigration nor the enactment of fruitless schemes that would penalize churches and hospitals for helping the truly needy. That will not fix the mess we are in.


I support comprehensive immigration reform.


That reform has to be based on:



. Strengthening our borders to make us safer from the threat of terrorism and using new technology to help our Border Patrol agents be more effective;



. Greater cross-border co-operation with our neighbors, especially Mexico , to solve the problem of illegal immigration;



. New enforcement laws that are both strict and fair;



. Harsh penalties for those who exploit undocumented workers;



. A fairer process for people seeking to come to America , especially for those whose families have been torn apart;



. A path to earned citizenship for those who are here, working hard, paying taxes, respecting the law, and willing to meet a high bar for becoming a citizen.



So I will support plans that meet these principles, and I will oppose one-sided solutions that simply sound tough but do little to deal with either our porous borders or the millions of families who live here.


Here is my reasoning.



A Nation of Immigrants and Laws



Ours is a nation of immigrants. Our national identity and heritage - who we are as Americans - is shaped by our commitment to welcoming people of diverse backgrounds who come to our shores to pursue better lives for themselves and their families. We are rightfully proud of this commitment, and we are made better by those who come here to pursue the American Dream. There is no better example of our nation's rich cultural heritage and diversity than New York , and its prosperity is a testament to how our country is enriched by the contributions of immigrants. When our forefathers created this nation, they envisioned a "land of opportunity," and we must never show contempt or disdain for that vision.



But ours is also a nation of laws. It is our respect for the rule of law that distinguishes the United States from many other nations and is no doubt one of the reasons people from around the world yearn to come here. Our notions of justice and fairness are revered, and it is often the pursuit of that justice that brings immigrants to our country. We betray our ideals when our laws cease to reflect these values.



There are many competing voices in the immigration debate, and because our national heritage is at its heart a story of immigrants, it is often a passionate and emotional one. But as we move forward and undertake the thoughtful reform of our immigration laws, we must continue to embrace our uniquely American values of being a nation that is both welcoming to immigrants but also respectful of the law.



Strengthening Our Borders



Smart reform must have as an essential component a plan to strengthen our northern and southern borders. It is unconscionable to think that in a post-9/11 world we do not know precisely who is entering and exiting our country. Our homeland security requires that we know the identities of all people who cross our borders. In reforming our broken system, our efforts must be multifaceted and comprehensive. During my tenure in the Senate, I have supported efforts to increase exponentially the number of Border Patrol agents. By the end of this year, the ranks of our Border Patrol will have increased by 3,000 agents since 2001, a 30% increase. But the problem is not simply one of manpower. We also need to deploy new technology that can help our Border Patrol agents be more effective in stopping the thousands of undocumented immigrants who enter the country each day. Employing new surveillance equipment - like detection sensors, unman! ned drones, and infrared cameras - can assist in this important work. This includes stopping the deplorable and tragic practice of human smuggling that preys on the undocumented.



We must also demand that our neighbors do their part. In particular, we must have a willing partner in Mexico if we are going to stem the tide of illegal immigration into the United States . Mexico needs to be more fully engaged in this effort if we are going fix our immigration system. We must also work together to ensure that our shared, 2,000-mile-long border with Mexico and 5,000-mile border with Canada do not become gateways into the United States for terrorists. That means improving the ways in which we share intelligence and information with our neighbors.



If we can succeed in securing our borders, the Department of Homeland Security will be freed to focus its resources and energies on other credible threats against our homeland.



The Need for New Enforcement Laws



Of course, enforcement of our immigration laws cannot start and stop at the border. We need an effective interior enforcement plan as well. In reforming our laws, we must enact strict and enforceable laws that are simultaneously effective and rationally-based. They can be neither rooted in prejudice nor play to peoples' fears. In this vein, I oppose proposals - like the Sensenbrenner Bill (H.R.4437) - that target and criminalize the undocumented and punish those who would provide them with humanitarian assistance.



Among other things, our laws must go after unscrupulous employers who skirt our laws and exploit these workers in the pursuit of cheap labor. Our American values dictate that all people who put in a hard day's work should receive a prevailing wage and have a safe workplace in which to work. We must honor that.



Regrettably in this struggle against illegal immigration, we have abandoned our state and local governments, leaving them to bear the burden and the cost of our failed national immigration policies. Unchecked illegal immigration strains our schools, hospitals, and local emergency services. And while the vast majority of undocumented people do not engage in criminal activity, there are those who do, putting an incredible strain on our local law enforcement agencies. For too long we have left our state and local governments to fend for themselves in this effort. They should not be made to bear this burden alone. They need the support of the federal government in dealing with illegal immigration.



Of course, our goal of comprehensive immigration reform can not be achieved by simply patching up our porous borders and promoting increased law enforcement. Smart reform that is consistent with our values also requires that we find a way to couple an orderly and legal immigration system with a policy committed to keeping families together and treating all immigrants with dignity. Our laws can be both strict and fair. We should not unduly punish the overwhelming majority of immigrants who work hard, raise families, pay their taxes, and contribute to their communities.



Preserving the Sanctity of the Family



Although we as Americans believe strongly in the sanctity of the family, our immigration laws do not reflect this value. Growing visa backlogs often prevent legal immigrants and United States citizens from uniting with their loved ones, keeping families separated for years and in the worst cases, tearing them apart. As these family visa backlogs swell, a growing number of families find themselves having to make a difficult choice - remain separated from their loved ones for years or encourage their family members to enter the country illegally so that they can be together. To be clear, these backlogs do not just affect immigrant families - they also affect American citizens who have family members living in other countries who are also caught in this bottleneck. Any reasonable immigration reform proposal must offer relief to those would-be immigrants who have tried to play by the rules by obtaining a family visa, but who have nonetheless been unable to reunite with their spouses, parents, children, and siblings because of a shortage of visas.



The Undocumented and an Earned Path to Legal Status



One of the consequences of our dysfunctional immigration system has been the creation of a growing underclass made up of undocumented people. Estimates have the number of undocumented in our country at approximately 11 million people, a number that grows by the thousands each day. They are here illegally because our current system permits it. Both the undocumented and the United States are complicit in this. But we cannot continue to ignore the problem. No one benefits from the current system. The undocumented are made to live in constant fear of persecution, too afraid to come forward when they are sick or in need of help. Conversely, our national security is imperiled because we have an enormous population of people we know nothing about. It is not enough that we simply know who is entering and exiting the country; we also need to identify who is already here. Our homeland security demands it.



Therefore, we must develop a system that gets the undocumented to come out of the shadows. There is not a single approach that can fix this crisis. The suggestion that enacting stricter and more enforceable deportation laws alone can solve this problem ignores reality. This will only force the undocumented deeper underground. New laws, which are both strict and fair, are certainly part of the answer, but we also need a worker program that encourages undocumented workers to come forward and identify themselves. While I categorically oppose any program that grants unconditional amnesty for illegal immigration, I do support providing undocumented workers with the opportunity to earn legal status in this country. For those who work hard, pay their taxes, continue to obey the law, and demonstrate a commitment to this country, the opportunity to eventually earn citizenship should also be available. A program such as this is not a free! ride, and it certainly is not for everyone. Legal status must be earned, as it was by previous generations of immigrants who became citizens through perseverance and hard work.



Respecting Our Heritage and Providing for Our Homeland Security



Balancing all of these interests is not easy, but I am committed to working with my colleagues to create a comprehensive system that respects both the rule of law and our immigrant heritage and American values. As is etched on the Statue of Liberty, we must continue to welcome to our shores those who "yearn to breathe free." But we must do so with an eye towards adopting new policies that encourage orderly, safe, and legal immigration that take into account the needs of our national security.



Sincerely yours,

Hillary Rodham Clinton

From the mouths of babes: This is a (sophomore) high school student's comment during a visit by governor Bill Richardson of New Mexico.

http://www.freenewmexican.com/news/42206.html

And John Martinez (sophomore at Espanola High School, New Mexico) got laughs for saying if the United States was to go ahead with a wall on the border, the government would probably hire undocumented immigrants to build it.

That would certainly be the best such wall ever built. The illegals work circles around everybody I know.

The immigrant groups are contemplating a work stoppage and boycott on May 1 to show their displeasure and punish the US citizenry for not acquiescing to their illegal demands. IMO the government should show the citrizen's displeasure by rounding up as many illegal's as they can and immediately pushing them over the border.

Advocating deportation of US-citizens now, au?