What should be done about illegal immigration?

Walter Hinteler wrote:

I wanted to ask this before already:

"an illegal using my social security number" - how can that be? Mine is clearly mine, and no-one else can use it (perhaps, if I had a twin, he could).

As I understand it; quality papers use numbers that belong to the deceased or have never been in circulation... and cheap papers pretty much make them up on the spot. Our ultra-high tech government has yet to link SS, Drivers Licenses or Pass Ports together. As near as I can figure; they'd accept Tax from a phone number, as long as no one files for a return on the dough. Don't get me wrong, the local credit card issuing gas station would know it was a fraud in a split second. :wink:

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Foxfyre wrote:

As I've posted before, I've dealt with illegals here who were using four or more social security numbers as well as a half dozen aliases. This is not going to be a simple situation to sort out unless everybody just goes home and comes back legally with one ID.

WTF does leaving the country have to do with issuing proper ID? (Point A->B->A=IDIOCY)

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Yes, I was right. The IRS LOVES illegal aliens! As far as they're concerned, if they earn, they're legal. Laughing

Check this out.

A few notable excerpts: The paragraphs are whole, but I skipped a LOT if anyone's interested, click the link. This was written in October, 2002

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Also, they seem to have 12.5 million or so accounted for between the bogus SS's they new about and this ITIN (I've never even heard of that)... and that was in 2002... and doesn't accoun for ????# of bogus numbers they didn't catch (of which; there must be some). Perhaps Okie's feelings are more accurate than we're giving him credit for. Laughing

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biometrics. it's very big brother, but we are pretty much up against a wall. as far as i can tell, it's nearly impossible to bootleg.
---

btw, bill. it got late last night and i didn't get a chance to respond to you on something. so here it is; (drum roll please Very Happy

).

i didn't mean that you had called me a racist or ignorant. possibly out of my mind, yeah. but i copped to that one on a temporary basis due to my being marooned in the middle of nowhere, and without beer. :wink:

anyway, i pretty much said everything to you that i wanted to say about that part in a previous post.

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Quote:

Having a foreign name doesn't necessarily mean the student was foreign born. Any more than assuming "Paul Shane Morrow" isn't foreign born. He could have been born in any number of European countries.

I know more than one immigrant from Hong Kong whose children (all born here) have graduated from Harvard, MIT, and USC to name just a few.

And then goes on to blame it all on Iraq. What nonsense.

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Related to Bill's lst post:

U.S. Tax Program for Illegal Immigrants Under Fire:

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That's something more which sounds to me incredible ...

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OCCOM BILL wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:
As I've posted before, I've dealt with illegals here who were using four or more social security numbers as well as a half dozen aliases. This is not going to be a simple situation to sort out unless everybody just goes home and comes back legally with one ID.
WTF does leaving the country have to do with issuing proper ID? (Point A->B->A=IDIOCY)

Just once could you make a point or argument without being insulting to those of us you apparently see as the enemy? That would be soooooo refreshing.

Realistically yes, you could have central sign up locations where people could go to get a tamper proof photo ID with their real name on it that would accomplish essentially the same thing. But assuming that most illegals would rather be legal than illegal, and would go home so that they could re-enter legally, those who chose not to do so would be mostly those we wouldn't let back in. I just think it would make it easier to identify the undesirables if we had one method to get in legally and that way is to show your ID at the border or other point of entry for those coming from other places. Then if we crack down on employer fraud too and eliminate all but emergency services to illegals, the USA will then become a much less hospitable place for those we don't want here.

For the folks not to go home and come back legally is amnesty any way you define it, and I just don't think that is going to ever be acceptable for a great many Americans who will never accept it as the best way to solve this problem.

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Walter Hinteler wrote:

That's something more which sounds to me incredible ...

welcome to the rabbit hole formerly known as the united states. Laughing

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dd/MadlHatterByTenniel.jpg

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Foxfyre wrote:

Realistically yes, you could have central sign up locations where people could go to get a tamper proof photo ID with their real name on it that would accomplish essentially the same thing. But assuming that most illegals would rather be legal than illegal, and would go home so that they could re-enter legally, those who chose not to do so would be mostly those we wouldn't let back in. I just think it would make it easier to identify the undesirables if we had one method to get in legally and that way is to show your ID at the border or other point of entry for those coming from other places. Then if we crack down on employer fraud too and eliminate all but emergency services to illegals, the USA will then become a much less hospitable place for those we don't want here.

We don't have exact data of the number of illegals here neither - that's why they are illegal.
But when someone can't show a visa in his passport or an EU-passport (or national ID-card), she/he is here illegally.

As simple as that.

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that's actually a very good idea. there's been some talk of a national i.d., but the anti-"big government" folks are screaming bloody murder.

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Foxfyre wrote:

I just think it would make it easier to identify the undesirables if we had one method to get in legally and that way is to show your ID at the border or other point of entry for those coming from other places.

That is non sequitur, Foxy. The "undesirable will neither show up for their ID, nor volunteer for deportation, for he'll know that both result in the same. From an ID standpoint; there is ZERO difference. Zero. Your it's amnesty without coming and going makes a tiny bit more sense; but since the current plan guarantees re-entry that's basically just an expense, a family hardship, and more time that poor people can't earn their keep. If it's amnesty; it's amnesty regardless of the hoops. The next generation of border crossers isn't going to care a wit that you made the last generation stop home for a visit before granting them the keys to the kingdom. I promise you; that will deter no one. (I hope that came out nice. You're getting piled on pretty bad on that other thread).

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OCCOM BILL wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:
I just think it would make it easier to identify the undesirables if we had one method to get in legally and that way is to show your ID at the border or other point of entry for those coming from other places.
That is non sequitur, Foxy. The "undesirable will neither show up for their ID, nor volunteer for deportation, for he'll know that both result in the same. From an ID standpoint; there is ZERO difference. Zero. Your it's amnesty without coming and going makes a tiny bit more sense; but since the current plan guarantees re-entry that's basically just an expense, a family hardship, and more time that poor people can't earn their keep. If it's amnesty; it's amnesty regardless of the hoops. The next generation of border crossers isn't going to care a wit that you made the last generation stop home for a visit before granting them the keys to the kingdom. I promise you; that will deter no one. (I hope that came out nice. You're getting piled on pretty bad on that other thread).

I'm not convinced that it would make ZERO difference. We can see who goes home and who doesn't. It isn't as if all the folks who have snuck in are invisible. Just about everybody knows somebody who will know they're going home to come back legally. That will make a lot of the undesirables who don't go home stick out like sore thumbs.

Awhile back I mentioned some of the illegals who are work comp patients I've dealt with. And when they're ordered off work for several weeks due to broken bones or other long term injuries, most ask if they can go home to Mexico while they recuperate. We always give permission. They manage to get back for their doctor's appointments (which are required) and most do return after they're released to go back to work. Several other people I know to be illegal or suspect are illegal also go home for intermittant visits and they seem to manage to do that fairly easily too. I've know one guy running a contracting business here who budgets to pay the coyotes who get him back and forth. He also accepts cash (at a discount) for most of the jobs he does but he does take out liability insurance so he can bid a bigger job now and then.

It is for this reason I think the going home and returning legally would be far less a financial hardship on most folks than would the ridiculous $5000 or more fine idea that is being kicked around. And given all those aliases and multiple social security numbers the illegals are using, I don't see any fair way that the feds would ever be able to sort all that out to collect the requisite back taxes. There is a part of me that seriously resists people being able to buy their right to be in the USA along with all the abuse that could be built into that.

But collective heads if they're talking instead of fighting will usually come up with a plan everybody can live with. I hope we all can do that.

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DontTreadOnMe wrote:

that's actually a very good idea. there's been some talk of a national i.d., but the anti-"big government" folks are screaming bloody murder.

The UK-citizens don't have an ID-card. But a passport.

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Germans don't have passports? I have a passport, but I also have other forms of ID. (For whatever reason Walgreen's won't accept a passport as valid ID.)

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Foxfyre wrote:

Germans don't have passports? I have a passport, but I also have other forms of ID. (For whatever reason Walgreen's won't accept a passport as valid ID.)

Most don't. You don't need them ... besides you travel to the USA or a few other countries demanding visas.
(We cross borders without showing papers. Normally, that is and in Schengen countries.)

We only have ID-cards (and passports) as legal identification papers.

(I remember that I posted pics of my ID-card on a thread you participated in, Foxfyre.)

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OCCOM BILL wrote:

au1929 wrote:
By the way if you solved the illegal problem. You should help out congress and tell them. They are in dire need of a solution.
I have, both by email and by appearing in person for the latest March. :wink:

."

And they didn't listen to your wise council. I guess they must be, whats that word "idiots" Crying or Very sad

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au, And don't forget "bigots."

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OCCOM BILL wrote:

au1929 wrote:
CI
Where there is no will there is no way. There will be as much inforcement of new laws as there was the old ones. Laws are only for American citizens. Not the criminals flowing across our border. Yes that means all illegal aliens.

Bill that should rate at least Bigots.
Actually, no. Considering the petty trespassing criminal is pretty silly, but it's not the same as those who willfully exaggerate the quantity of real crimes these people commit when they get here. That's how they get rated bigots. In your case; I've known for years you don't give two sh!ts about any non-American or any color, so I'd be hard pressed to label you a bigot. (You are not necessarily immune to my other favorite names though :wink: ).

Boy am I relieved. Bill doesn't think I am a bigot.
Regarding the invasion by up to, you name whatever figure you are comfortable with. That is a criminal act by any standard. If you choose to label it an acceptable crime and one that you are comfortable with that is your purgative. But a crime it surely is. And to reward people who are law breakers is as far as i am concerned not acceptable.

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au, The reason I have a problem with your stance is based on our government not enforcing the laws they write. They should be more at fault for doing nothing, then expecting the problem to "go away." That's not even realistic. It's a matter of "who's at fault more?" Have you ever run a red light? Just because you didn't get caught breaking the law doesn't relieve you of not reporting yourself to the police if you want illegal immigrants to do the same.

Your running the red light just didn't happen to cause a mishap that may have killed or harmed some innocent person(s). What harm did the illegal immigrant do by coming to this country to work in our fields and other jobs crying for workers?

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CI
When did I give you the impression that I don't fault the government for not enforcing the law. That is the primary reason for the present situation. And it will continue to be if the immigration laws are not inforced in the future. However, that fact does not make the illegal entry into the US any less a crime.
If a tree falls in the forest and no one hears it . Does it still make a
noise?

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What should be done about illegal immigration?

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