50
   

What should be done about illegal immigration?

 
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Apr, 2007 05:20 pm
OCCOM BILL wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
blatham wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
Am I understanding correctly that some here have never heard the term "anchor baby" before?


Yes. Almost none of us have heard/read this term before. And as (was it?) cyclo noted earlier, it isn't as if we don't read a lot.

I doubt I could devise a better example to demonstrate the echo-chamber some of you folks live inside.


I find it highly dubious that you folks have not heard the term "anchor baby" before, considering many of you like to consider yourselves well read.

"anchor baby" get 91,000+ hits on google.

Is this another case of "tar baby" and "niggardly"? Words that get libbies all bent out of shape?
My reaction to hearing it for the first time (at least that I recall) is a few pages back, yes. Are you really foolish enough to join Foxy in considering me a libby? (I haven't even been invited to a pot smoking orgy yet... well, at least not since I "crossed over to the dark side" according to Foxy. Laughing)

(Pssst. Foxy, OE is offering you an easy way out of your last foolish outburst... I'd take it Idea)


You? A libby? Nah. Your just wrong on the issue regarding it being racist is all.

I don't live in the southwest. I don't have a lot of interaction with illegal mexicans. I do, however have near daily interaction with Bosnians here illegally. They have overstayed their visas, or came with family or were moved here by the gov't temporarily during the war. Most Bosnians are here legally and they work damn hard to make lives for themselves. For some reason, cell phone stores seem to be their thing. The few, just as in other regions, not here legally have turned to the seedy side. Many have joined gangs, turned to crime, etc. Obviously not all, but enough to be noticeable.

This is why I object to you, and others trying to make this into some racist argument.

When I talk about illegal aliens, it is this group I am most concerned with as they have the most effect on me personally.
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Apr, 2007 05:43 pm
McGentrix wrote:
I do, however have near daily interaction with Bosnians here illegally.


Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

TMI
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Apr, 2007 06:10 pm
Let me post a few more references to the term "anchor baby" that those of you that claim to be well read should have found with a cursory search on google...

http://www.apsu.edu/oconnort/3040/3040lect07a.htm

http://www.philippinenews.com/news/view_article.html?article_id=b1ad5e6cb0638ba457a2377a8f381dc4

Here is just one of many I found on more left leaning sites that call the AG an "anchor baby".
And yet the left on here claims to have never heard the term???

http://newsblaze.com/story/20070319120109lill.nb/newsblaze/OPINIONS/Opinions.html


So as we all can see,its not just "right wing" sites that have used the term,nor is it only US sites that have used the term.
For anyone living in the US to say they have never heard the term is a flat out misstatement.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Apr, 2007 06:26 pm
Knock it off already Foxy. There is no pissing contest, no matter how many times you repeat that and announce your retreat. When I see BS, I tend to react and will continue to do so as I see fit. It is neither personal nor a contest of any kind. Stop peddling BS and I'll stop illuminating it. Your nonsense has been thoroughly demonstrated by a multitude of posters and somehow you continue to behave as if you haven't made a fool of yourself. Suit yourself. Respond, don't, I don't care… but bet your very last dollar I'll respond whenever I feel like it, or not.

McG; that's why many pages ago when I used "racist" I included for lack of a better word… then came up with bigot; but the change hasn't yet caught on. Note my response to Finn; and you'll notice I don't find all immigration arguments that oppose mine racist or bigoted… the implication that I do is just another feeble attempt to deflect inconvenient truths. :wink:

Oh, and I forgot to mention; I learned a new word today--> Nimh is a niggler! Laughing

Ps. Snap out of it MM. How often do you think anyone here reads newblaze, the Philippine News or ASP University articles? Laughing
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Apr, 2007 06:33 pm
OCCOM BILL wrote:
Knock it off already Foxy. There is no pissing contest, no matter how many times you repeat that and announce your retreat. When I see BS, I tend to react and will continue to do so as I see fit. It is neither personal nor a contest of any kind. Stop peddling BS and I'll stop illuminating it. Your nonsense has been thoroughly demonstrated by a multitude of posters and somehow you continue to behave as if you haven't made a fool of yourself. Suit yourself. Respond, don't, I don't care… but bet your very last dollar I'll respond whenever I feel like it, or not.

McG; that's why many pages ago when I used "racist" I included for lack of a better word… then came up with bigot; but the change hasn't yet caught on. Note my response to Finn; and you'll notice I don't find all immigration arguments that oppose mine racist or bigoted… the implication that I do is just another feeble attempt to deflect inconvenient truths. :wink:

Oh, and I forgot to mention; I learned a new word today--> Nimh is a niggler! Laughing

Ps. Snap out of it MM. How often do you think anyone here reads newblaze, the Philippine News or ASP University articles? Laughing


I was trying to show that it isnt only the "right wing" sites that use the term.
I was not making any claims as to who reads what.
But,if someone claims to be "well read" but states that it is only the "right" that uses a term,that tells me that either they were to lazy to do a little research or they arent as well read as they claim to be.

BTW,didnt you say earlier that the southwest was "stolen" from Mexico by the US?
Have you never heard of the Gadsen Purchase?
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Apr, 2007 06:37 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
(P.S. If you want to go to the trouble of posting all of them, that's cool. Please don't just cherry pick something out of context so that you can make it look ugly, however.)


Right. Well, you said before (right here --> click me) regarding the term "anchor baby":

Foxfyre wrote:
Did you even look into any of the links I posted? These are not wacko fringe sources, but every single one seemed to deal with the phrase rather matter-of-factly.


Let's examine that statement. You posted a list of links (right here --> click me) to substantiate your claim that the term "anchor baby" was used pretty much universally.




A link to a letter written by Allan E. Wall, an American citizen who has lived and worked in Mexico since 1991, denouncing "present U.S. anchor baby "policy" is an abuse of the 14th Amendment".
The website itself (American Patrol) is clearly partisan, anti-immigration. The first item in their navigation menu is "Report Illegals".

Not really evidence that the term "anchor baby" is being used pretty much universally.




Surprisingly, this link sends us to the same anti-immigration website: American Patrol (incidentally, they also own the website "www.americanborderpatrol.com")

I'll count this and the previous link together as one.




This is what you get, following the link:

Quote:
anchor baby

Anchor baby is term used to refer to a child born in the United States to illegal aliens or other non-citizens. The term refers to a resident alien's child's role in facilitating "chain migration" under the provisions of the Immigration and Nationality Services Act of 1965. It is considered pejorative by some.[1][2] Nativists claim that the baby would become the "anchor" of a chain by which its family may receive benefits from social programs, and by which that family's members may themselves eventually become citizens of the United States.


While not being evidence for pretty much universal usage, it seems to confirm the suspicions that the term might be deemed pejorative.




This is what CAIR (the Colorado Alliance for Immigration Reform) writes:

Quote:
Anchor baby

An anchor baby is a child born to illegal alien parents within the borders of the United States. The child is born as an American citizen and under the 1965 immigration Act, can be used to facilitate citizenship for the immediate - and ultimately the extended - family.

<snip>

The original intent of the 14th Amendment was clearly not to facilitate illegal aliens to defy U.S. law at taxpayer expense.


CAIR clearly has an anti-immigration agenda, to be found under "about us":

Quote:
CAIR supports the principles of the ASAP! Alliance for Stabilizing America's Population, formulated in Colorado in 1997. This action plan consists of the following points:

1. Immigration Moratorium

2. No More Amnesties

3. Enforce Immigration Laws

4. No Citizenship for Illegal Aliens' Offspring


Now, another anti-immigration website, opposed to the 14th Amendment.
I don't think that this is evidence that the term "anchor baby" is being used pretty much universally.




Quote:
anchor baby n. a child born of an immigrant in the United States, said to be a device by which a family can find legal foothold in the US, since those children are automatically allowed to choose American citizenship. Also anchor child, a very young immigrant who will later sponsor citizenship for family members who are still abroad.


And what follows is a pretty good list of citation about when the term "anchor baby" or the apparently related term "anchor child" has been used before. A really interesting and good resource.

However, check out the point "about us" on their website:

Quote:
About Double-Tongued Word Wrester

The Double-Tongued Dictionary records undocumented or under-documented words from the fringes of English. It focuses upon slang, jargon, and other niche categories which include new, foreign, hybrid, archaic, obsolete, and rare words.


So, if anything at all, this is evidence to the contrary when it comes to pretty much universal usage of the term "anchor baby".

Nevertheless, an interesting resource.




Well, this one is ridiculous. All there is on that site is an anonymous guy using the "answers" feature at Yahoo!, asking

http://i11.tinypic.com/2mhio7a.jpg

Do you think that counts towards pretty much universal usage, or matter-of-factly representation of a specific issue? I don't know.




Uhm. There's no single mention of the term "anchor baby" in that article. Nothing. Nada.




What's this about?

Quote:
Louisiana's Anchor Baby Crisis

The New Orleans health system is overwhelmed with a massive baby boom generated by pregnant illegal immigrants participating in the ailing city's post Hurricane Katrina reconstruction efforts.

More than 1,200 pregnant illegal immigrants have received U.S. taxpayer-funded prenatal care this year alone from the Louisiana Department of Health and many more have shown up in labor at emergency rooms, where they are required by federal law to be treated even if they are in the country illegally.


Okay. So who's "Judicial Watch Inc."?

Quote:
Judicial Watch, Inc., a conservative, non-partisan educational foundation, promotes transparency, accountability and integrity in government, politics and the law.


Okay. A conservative foundation. Still, I guess that counts.


Foxfyre wrote:


Now, this one's really embarrassing. You misread. Nothing to do with "anchor babies". Uhm, look again, and don't miss the description right after the picture:

http://i11.tinypic.com/2ron8ys.jpg

Yeah. A "100% cotton baby rib" shirt, with an anchor logo. Nothing to do with "anchor baby".


Foxfyre wrote:
Poetry re alternate definition
http://www.lafmacun.org/bak/anchor+baby


Oooooh, a song titled "anchor baby". Great. It's a song about a boy and a girl. Let's look at the lyrics:

Quote:
nothing could join them,
except maybe one thing,
just maybe...
something to anchor their spirits....
they had a baby.

but to give birth to a baby
they needed a crane.
the umbilical cord
was in the form of a chain.

ı t was ugly and gloomy,
and as hard as a kettle.
ıt had no pink skin,
just heavy gray metal.

the baby that was meant
to bring them together,
just shrouded them both
in a cloud of foul weather.


Yeah. Nice title. Just nothing to do with immigration. Not really. Don't think so. No. Unlikely.




Yeah, blablablaNEWS sounds always good. But if you had looked at the website, you would have noticed that this is merely a post by some unknown guy. It has as much credibility as someone posting here on A2K. If I started a thread about "blue hedgehogs" tomorrow, I don't think that would count as evidence of pretty much universal usage of the term "blue hedgehogs".... wouldn't you agree.
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Apr, 2007 06:37 pm
So let's sum this up:

- three links to anti-immigration websites
- one link that gives a definition, describing the term as considered pejorative by some
- one link to a dictionary that focuses upon slang, jargon, and other niche categories
- one link to the website of a conservative foundation, dealing with the issue of babies of illegal immigrants
- one link to a website where an anonymous guy asks a question
- one link to a website where a guy posted a letter
- three websites that either don't use the term at all, or don't use it in connection to immigration


I don't think it would be fair to count anti-immigration websites or the websites where some guys merely posted a question or a letter.

I guess we can count the dictionaries, if you are willing to agree that the term is considered pejorative or belongs to a slang, jargon, or other niche category.

I'll give you one point for the conservative foundation.

I'll have to subtract three points for the three links that had nothing to do with the term at all.


Now, here's your statement again:

Foxfyre wrote:
These are not wacko fringe sources, but every single one seemed to deal with the phrase rather matter-of-factly.


Not.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Apr, 2007 06:39 pm
MM- Do you mean this relative sliver of New Mexico?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/b5/Gadsden_Purchase_Cities.png/300px-Gadsden_Purchase_Cities.png
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Apr, 2007 06:46 pm
OCCOM BILL wrote:
MM- Do you mean this relative sliver of New Mexico?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/b5/Gadsden_Purchase_Cities.png/300px-Gadsden_Purchase_Cities.png


Yes.
But the fact that we bought that part disproves your claim that we stole the entire southwest from Mexico,doesnt it.
Alsohow did we (the US) steal Texas from Mexico.
Texas was an independent country at the time it joined the Union,so we couldnt have stolen it from Mexico.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Apr, 2007 06:54 pm
old europe wrote:
So let's sum this up:

- three links to anti-immigration websites
- one link that gives a definition, describing the term as considered pejorative by some
- one link to a dictionary that focuses upon slang, jargon, and other niche categories
- one link to the website of a conservative foundation, dealing with the issue of babies of illegal immigrants
- one link to a website where an anonymous guy asks a question
- one link to a website where a guy posted a letter
- three websites that either don't use the term at all, or don't use it in connection to immigration


I don't think it would be fair to count anti-immigration websites or the websites where some guys merely posted a question or a letter.

I guess we can count the dictionaries, if you are willing to agree that the term is considered pejorative or belongs to a slang, jargon, or other niche category.

I'll give you one point for the conservative foundation.

I'll have to subtract three points for the three links that had nothing to do with the term at all.


Now, here's your statement again:

Foxfyre wrote:
These are not wacko fringe sources, but every single one seemed to deal with the phrase rather matter-of-factly.


Not.


Only if one agrees with your evaluation.

I don't.

You might have a better argument, however, if you could show how the phrase is in fact perjorative as opposed to a convenient term to describe a specific immigration issue.
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Apr, 2007 06:57 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
Only if one agrees with your evaluation.

I don't.


Why not?
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Apr, 2007 06:57 pm
mysteryman wrote:
OCCOM BILL wrote:
MM- Do you mean this relative sliver of New Mexico?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/b5/Gadsden_Purchase_Cities.png/300px-Gadsden_Purchase_Cities.png


Yes.
But the fact that we bought that part disproves your claim that we stole the entire southwest from Mexico,doesnt it.
Alsohow did we (the US) steal Texas from Mexico.
Texas was an independent country at the time it joined the Union,so we couldnt have stolen it from Mexico.
Laughing You dope. We paid for the rest of New Mexico too, at the point of a gun. Laughing Texans, who had been proud Texans for all of 9 years (at the invitation of Mexico, and were loyal to same), before beginning to revolt because Mexico wasn't keen on slavery: finally revolted to keep their slaves. Read the history and learn the reason they were the odd state out as long as they were is because the Union wasn't in a rush to take on another bigoted slave-State either... what with all the trouble we were already having with the Racist South. Read on... it really is an interesting history.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Apr, 2007 07:01 pm
OCCOM BILL wrote:
mysteryman wrote:
OCCOM BILL wrote:
MM- Do you mean this relative sliver of New Mexico?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/b5/Gadsden_Purchase_Cities.png/300px-Gadsden_Purchase_Cities.png


Yes.
But the fact that we bought that part disproves your claim that we stole the entire southwest from Mexico,doesnt it.
Alsohow did we (the US) steal Texas from Mexico.
Texas was an independent country at the time it joined the Union,so we couldnt have stolen it from Mexico.
Laughing You dope. We paid for the rest of New Mexico too, at the point of a gun. Laughing Texans, who had been proud Texans for all of 9 years (at the invitation of Mexico, and were loyal to same), before beginning to revolt because Mexico wasn't keen on slavery: finally revolted to keep their slaves. Read the history and learn the reason they were the odd state out as long as they were is because the Union wasn't in a rush to take on another bigoted slave-State either... what with all the trouble we were already having with the Racist South. Read on... it really is an interesting history.


I know the history,I am not arguing that.

You claimed that we STOLE all of the southwest from Mexico.
I have shown you that you are mistaken.
We bought part of it,and Texas was already independent when they joined the union.
Those 2 facts alone show that we didnt steal all of the southwest from Mexico,like you claim.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Apr, 2007 07:04 pm
old europe wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
Only if one agrees with your evaluation.

I don't.


Why not?


Because the point was to illustrate that the term is not as rare or unfamiliar or unknown as some on this thread want it to be. And even on those sources in which the term is used in less than a complimentary way, the criticism appears to be of illegal behavior and not directed at race, ethnicity, or anybody of particular country of origin. And there are examples there of several different ways in which the term is used.

Now several members have pointed out that 90,000+ hits when the term is googled is a pretty good indication that the phrase is not all that unfamiliar or rarely used.

And I still object to the P.C. police dictating what one's intent is in using any particular term or phrase because I don't think they are any better mind readers than you or I. To accommodate this kind of PC coercion does far more damage than does ruffling feathers on a few hyper-sensitive nuts who presume to be the moral authority of any issue.
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Apr, 2007 07:05 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
Only if one agrees with your evaluation.

I don't.



I mean, there are three websites in your list which either don't even mention the term at all, or have not connection to the whole immigration topic whatsoever. There can hardly be any dispute at all about the "evaluation" of those links. Now read your statement again:

Foxfyre wrote:
These are not wacko fringe sources, but every single one seemed to deal with the phrase rather matter-of-factly.


I think it wouldn't damage your credibility if you could admit that this above statement was a bit off...
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Apr, 2007 07:10 pm
old europe wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
Only if one agrees with your evaluation.

I don't.



I mean, there are three websites in your list which either don't even mention the term at all, or have not connection to the whole immigration topic whatsoever. There can hardly be any dispute at all about the "evaluation" of those links. Now read your statement again:...


Which ones do not use the phrase? I thought I was pretty careful to read each one to ensure that it did. Nor did I say that they all related to the immigration issue. I thought I mentioned that some gave other definitions for the term. If I didn't do that, that was my intent. My whole point with the list was to show that it is a descriptive and not a racistl or defamatory term. Of course it can be used that way. ANY word can be used that way. I don't use it that way.

Quote:
Quote:
Foxfyre wrote:
These are not wacko fringe sources, but every single one seemed to deal with the phrase rather matter-of-factly.


I think it wouldn't damage your credibility if you could admit that this above statement was a bit off...
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Apr, 2007 07:29 pm
MM, it was disputed from the war and we paid $10,000,000 for it. In today's money that's about $13 per acre. You don't consider that a steal? You don't think that was an offer they couldn't refuse? Please. Texans, Stole Texas from Mexico plain and simple, and then volunteered to become part of us, no?
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Apr, 2007 07:32 pm
Foxy, your ability to deny the obvious is stunning. Pay that man the respect he deserves for being a niggler (Laughing), admit you are 100% wrong, and apologize for making everyone double and triple up on the evidence you've been shamelessly ignoring.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Apr, 2007 05:29 am
OCCOM BILL wrote:
Foxy, your ability to deny the obvious is stunning. Pay that man the respect he deserves for being a niggler (Laughing), admit you are 100% wrong, and apologize for making everyone double and triple up on the evidence you've been shamelessly ignoring.


blatham shakes head, puts hands in pocket and shuffles off wondering how it might be that we take so very long to learn certain lessons.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Apr, 2007 05:53 am
Perhaps it has to do with observing lent and now expecting great meals?

(And 'no': La Grande Bouffe isn't referred at here!)
0 Replies
 
 

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