What should be done about illegal immigration?

I understand the English only thing since most Americans speak English only.

I don't understand the "our culture" thing. There seems to be some difference between my culture and Foxfyre's culture-- even though no one would doubt we are both Americans.

And then they go as far as saying "our values".

Foxfyre and I have vastly different values.

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This is one of the most hilarious articles on illegal immigrants and the Minutemen I have ever seen, all collected on one page. Our government has been so lax in border enforcement, that these people are starting to sound like they are claiming something they actually deserve, or have a right to. The quotes speak for themselves.

"The Minuteman organization will soon be in the Rio Grande Valley. Their presence has many on the Mexican side of the border concerned over their activities, especially the Mexican Consulate in McAllen."

Ahem. A lot of Mexican citizens will also be in the Rio Grande valley, intending to violate U.S. law by crossing the border illegally. How many on the Mexican side of the border are concerned over THEIR activities, especially the Mexican Consulate in McAllen? Hmm?

"They are undocumented immigrants...."

The standard distraction, trying to pretend their only problem is that they somehow left some pieces of paper behind. No, Mr. Castillo, the problem is not "documentation". The problem is that they are violating U.S. law by entering the country illegally. The correct name for them is "illegal aliens".

"The Mexican Government has expressed concern with the Minuteman Project, and asks that state and federal measures be taken to safeguard the rights of Mexicans crossing the border illegally."

I especially love that one. It's hard to even imagine the arrogance of that statement.

"If it happens, we are going to ask for the appropriate authority to take those people into custody, to take action against them because they are going to be violating the American law...."

This one sounds pretty normal and acceptable... until you find out she's not talking about the Mexican citizens who violated American law by crossing the border illegally. She's talking about American citizens who crossed no border, violated no laws, and did nothing but call the cops when they saw the illegal crossings. THAT'S who she wants taken into custody! This is first-class Comedy Club material. Except this screwball was SERIOUS.

http://www.team4news.com/Global/story.asp?S=6288512

Mexican Government Reacts To Minutemen's Presence On The Border

reported by Victor Castillo
March 28, 2007 01:43 PM PST

The Minuteman organization will soon be in the Rio Grande Valley. Their presence has many on the Mexican side of the border concerned over their activities, especially the Mexican Consulate in McAllen.

The Minuteman's first border operation will start this weekend and just as they plan to have their eyes on illegal crossings, the Mexican Government will have their eyes on them.

Miriam Medel, Mexican Consulate spokesperson, tells Action 4 News they'll be very vigilant all weekend. "We want to make sure that no human rights are violated, and make sure that it's only the authorized personnel, the people who have had the training and the mandate to do so, the only ones that are making the arrests" said Medel.

But while the Minuteman volunteers are preparing their operations, immigrants continue to arrive in Reynosa, Mexico, with intentions to cross into the United States. Between sixty to seventy immigrants are given a place to stay every night at the Guadalupe Shelter downtown Reynosa. They are undocumented immigrants who are looking to cross the Rio Grande River at any cost.

Carlos Hernandez is from Mexico City and says he's been deported once. "I'll look for a strategic point to cross the river, I'm hoping to be able to make it" said Hernandez responding to the Minuteman presence along the border.

Central Americans housed at the Guadalupe Shelter say they are aware about the Minuteman group, the National Guard troops and the Border Patrol agents. But the need to help their families and no employment opportunities in their countries, are just some motivations to cross illegally to try to get to their American dream.

"We have to look for ways, we have to do everything possible to escape" said Ever Josué Herrera a Honduran seeking to cross into the United States. "We are asking God with our hearts that the Border Patrol is not in our way" said Herrera.

The Mexican Government has expressed concern with the Minuteman Project, and asks that state and federal measures be taken to safeguard the rights of Mexicans crossing the border illegally.

"If it happens, we are going to ask for the appropriate authority to take those people into custody, to take action against them because they are going to be violating the American law by taking justice into their own hands" said Miriam Medel when describing what the Mexican Consulate will do if they detect that a Minuteman volunteer comes in contact with or arrests a Mexican national trying to cross into the United States.

While condemning the act of detaining migrants by the Minuteman Project, the Mexican Government continues to look for mechanisms that ensure Mexican migration is legal, orderly and respectful to the United States.

The Minuteman's headquarters is planned to be in the area of Mission, Texas, they plan to be on public and also in private land.

Action 4 News has learned that because of the Minuteman's position in the Valley, some human smugglers are now charging between $2,000.00 to $2,500.00 dollars per person, to cross someone illegally into the United States and then taken to Houston.

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ebrown_p wrote:

I understand the English only thing since most Americans speak English only.

As a total aside, I was in a convenience store owned by some Hispanics. The delivery guy from one of the big soft drink companies came in. A red-neck, just like me. A big guy who probably owns a Harley bike.
He spoke to the owner in Spanish.
He was in the parking lot when I left and I asked him about that. He said
"Notice (our brand) is closest to the door? I'm going to start learning Indian next."

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realjohnboy wrote:

ebrown_p wrote:
I understand the English only thing since most Americans speak English only.

As a total aside, I was in a convenience store owned by some Hispanics. The delivery guy from one of the big soft drink companies came in. A red-neck, just like me. A big guy who probably owns a Harley bike.
He spoke to the owner in Spanish.
He was in the parking lot when I left and I asked him about that. He said
"Notice (our brand) is closest to the door? I'm going to start learning Indian next."

LOL.... a good businessman can't afford to be a bigot.

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Foxy,
I'm not sure how you can misinterpret what I write so consistently. Let's try this again:
Speeding, Jay-walking, Parking violations, etc. = NOT A CRIME AGAINST PEOPLE OR PROPERTY. Conclusion: Violators are not more likely to commit crimes against people or property.

Illegal Border Crossing = NOT A CRIME AGAINST PEOPLE OR PROPERTY. Conclusion: Violators are not more likely to commit crimes against people or property.

How you twist that into my wanting to turn the blind eye to actual criminal activity; I have no idea. How you equated speeding and DUI is a mystery as well.

YOU stated that a willingness to cross the border illegally is indicative of someone who would be more willing to commit A CRIME AGAINST PEOPLE OR PROPERTY. This is simply not true. Being untrue; the statement constitutes defamation. Get it?

I repeat: I took nothing out of context. I quoted your entire paragraph and the meaning was as obvious as it was clear. If not; please rephrase it and shed some light on the actual meaning of this paragraph:

Previously Foxfyre wrote:

It doesn't take a huge leap of logic to conclude that a person willing to break U.S. laws to be here might be more willing than the average person to break other laws as well.

You've twice accused me of taking this out of context, after ducking the question repeatedly. Please define it.

Cyclops,
I believe I accused you of bigotry when you suggested we should place landmines at the border and blow people up for seeking a better lot in life. Was that out of line?

Now, let us go ahead and put the matter of criminality to bed once and for all. Ready?

A quick foreword: The following Stats are for foreign born folks, but I promise I'll correlate it for you before I'm done. :wink:

Here we see that how Hispanics stack up to others... especially foreign born Hispanics:

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/7099/comparisonincarcerationmh5.jpg

Here we see how Mexicans stack up next to Hispanics in general... especially foreign born Mexicans:

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/8889/hispanicincarcerationrasy8.jpg

Here are some summary conclusions based on the Census Data: :wink:

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/2958/summaryincarcerationstafx9.jpg

Not as pretty, but easier to read copy of what's above:

Quote:

There are 35 million total Hispanics in the United States
40% were born abroad which means
14 Million Total Foreign born Hispanics.

The Annual limit for legal immigration is currently 700,000 and legally no more than 7% may come from any particular country. That's about 50,000 legal immigrants from Mexico each year, which would only account for a few million cumulatively at most. We know that Mexico accounts for 2/3rds of all Hispanic Immigrants and we know the reason is because the children born here are citizens by birthright.
Conclusion: The Census Data provided that shows the number of foreign born Hispanics is literally dominated by Illegal Aliens. Therefore, the Statistics above, while by no means perfect, have to be reasonably close to accurate. Even if you just pretend that the legal immigrants from Mexico commit no crime whatsoever, and ascribe the entire incarceration rate for "Foreign Born" Mexicans to those here illegally; statistically speaking that would still put the incarceration rate of ALL Illegal Mexicans in the neighborhood of 1% compared to an overall rate for whitey of nearly 2%. Obviously Foxy, that means the Average American is therefore more than twice as likely to be incarcerated than Illegal Aliens from Mexico who represent the vast majority of all illegal immigrants. Note: No consideration was given to the fact that Illegal immigrants would usually fit the economic model of a higher crime demographic. It wasn't necessary.

Your premise is faulty, Foxy and I like my Steak Rare. :wink:

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Bill, why is it you insist on misinterpreting what I write so consistently?

in reference to this statement:

Quote:

It doesn't take a huge leap of logic to conclude that a person willing to break U.S. laws to be here might be more willing than the average person to break other laws as well.

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While I'm at it, to GeorgeOb1. We could be related because I descend from some of those renegade Irish too. We have long teasingly suspected some of our Italian relatives of having Mafia links and they aren't denying it. Smile

One of my nephews-in-law immigrated from Mexico as a child claims General Antonio López de Santa Anna among his ancestry. I have no reason to doubt him.

In this post 9/11 world, however, with millions of radicals who intend us no good whatsoever and who do not wish to join Americans but rather to destroy them, it only makes sense that we do the best we can to know who is in this country.

Even aside from the criminal element, this is no longer the 18th, 19th or early 20th Century. The West has been won and the land and resources are pretty well divied up among the population. With social services already stretched to the max in many locations, it only makes sense to regulate the number of people entering the country to those who can be employed, welcomed, and hopefully seamlessly assimilated into the culture. We won't do anybody any favors if the system breaks down because we do not manage it intelligently.

I think we can accept many more people than the current quotas and I do hope that situation is remedied. But I think it should be remedied lawfully and not unlawfully. I think our current system to be archaic and inhumane and I want our elected representatives to fix it and make it reasonably, efficient, and capable of expediting people who need to be here and who we want to be here.

I don't think that is an unreasonable component of this debate.

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Fox: You either didn't read or didn't understand what I wrote. I just proved that the total of crimes committed by foreign born Mexicans could be attributed to Illegal Aliens and it would still be less than the average American. Your answer above is an exercise in hypocrisy. Watch:

Foxfyre wrote:

Bill, why is it you insist on misinterpreting what I write so consistently?

in reference to this statement:

Quote:
It doesn't take a huge leap of logic to conclude that a person willing to break U.S. laws to be here might be more willing than the average person to break other laws as well.

Within the context of the discussion in which I said this you have not acknowledged that I have also:

Foxfyre wrote:
1) Drawn a distinction between violent crime and other crime and/or the kind of crime that violates rules but does not violate the property and person of others. You seem to be unable to see these distinctions I suspect because it is inconvenient to your argument to do so.
This is the very distinction you've steadfastly denied. Crime that violates rules but not property or people is irrelevant to the security of the country. Border crossing in itself fits this category. If that's all you meant; then your point was pointless. I don't believe you.

Foxfyre wrote:
2) I have explained that the tendency to break laws and repeat illegal behavior applies to all people and not just people coming into the country illegally. You won't acknowledge that because then you couldn't play the racism card.
Won't acknowledge my ass. That has been the whole of my position and the reason I find your quote above defamatory. Wake up.

Foxfyre wrote:
3) I (and others) have posted evidence from credible sources showing a disproportionate number of crimes against persons or property committed by illegals. These sources forcus on ILLEGALS and not on immigrants. No source suggests that most illegals are doing these crimes, but the evidence seems to show that a disproportionate number of illegals are committing property and/or crimes against persons than the population as a whole. I have been quite clear that I think LEGAL immigrants probably commit measurably fewer crimes than the population as a whole and that even MOST illegals are not committing property crimes or violent crimes. But you don't make that distinction I suppose because then your argument is shot full of holes.
This is utter nonsense. You've posted no CREDIBLE evidence that shows illegals commit a disproportionate amount of crime... and the U.S. Census bureau info I just provided proves that, beyond a reasonable doubt. You are 100% wrong on this, but refuse to acknowledge the facts. The FACT is that immigrants of all kinds commit less crime than their American born counterparts. LOOK AT THE CHARTS ABOVE!

Foxfyre wrote:
4) I distinguish between immigrants and illegals. You seem to have a problem doing that. So do the authors of the piece that you posted. I have no problem whatsoever with legal immigrants. You can't seem to understand that. The only way you can play the racism card on this point is to lump all foreign born people into the same group. I don't do that and it is dishonest to do so.
The reason reasonable people have trouble distinguishing between immigrants and illegals (for statistical purposes) is a lack of available credible sources; not a lack of desire. However; as demonstrated in conclusion above; even if you ascribe the crime of ALL immigrants to illegals; the overall numbers remain lower than those of people who were born here. Why is that too hard for you to understand? The simple FACT is, the crime rate of foreign born people is so much lower than that of people born here, that you could ascribe 100% of it to illegals and it STILL wouldn't match the rate of people born here. Wake up.

Foxfyre wrote:
5) You seem to be fixated on Mexicans and continue to try to make this a racist issue against Mexicans. Why is that do you think? In contrast, I do not care what race, nationality, or color of skin a person might have or where they came from. For me it is a behaviorial problem and/or security problem and not a racial problem. You can't seem to see the difference.
My fixation on Mexicans stems from the FACT that the majority of illegals are Mexicans. Your behavioral problem and/or security problem is utterly unsupported by the available facts and therefore constitutes a racial problem in it's ignorant repetition.

Foxfyre wrote:
6) And while you duck and weave and dodge and omit information or manufacture information to characterize me in the racist mold, you refuse to see or acknowledge the very genuine concerns being raised re uncontrolled borders and not being able to say who is and who is not in the country. You don't seem to care who enters the country. That's your prerogative. It's my prerogative to believe that's a bad situation.
While I duck and weave? It is your prerogative to repeat defamatory pseudo facts with impunity, yes. It is my prerogative to demonstrate the falseness of your claims, which I've done.

Try this:
Real border issues: Drug trade, potential for terrorists to slip in, overpopulation, job market saturation, disease, etc.

Bullshit border issues: Crime, language, values, ability to assimilate, etc.

Immigrant's tendency towards criminal activity is so significantly lower than the American average that it is a complete fabrication and is defamatory in nature, since not one shred of credible evidence supports it. You asked for the evidence, I searched until I found it and now you behave as if you didn't even bother to read it. Open your mind Foxy, and you will realize that your entire line of argument (Crime committed by Illegals) is a Red Herring... since the statistics clearly show that their crime rate couldn't possibly match the rate of the people who already live here.

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The Illegal-Alien Crime Wave

-snip-
Police commanders may not want to discuss, much less respond to, the illegal-alien crisis, but its magnitude for law enforcement is startling. Some examples:

In Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide (which total 1,200 to 1,500) target illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (17,000) are for illegal aliens.

A confidential California Department of Justice study reported in 1995 that 60 percent of the 20,000-strong 18th Street Gang in southern California is illegal; police officers say the proportion is actually much greater. The bloody gang collaborates with the Mexican Mafia, the dominant force in California prisons, on complex drug-distribution schemes, extortion, and drive-by assassinations, and commits an assault or robbery every day in L.A. County. The gang has grown dramatically over the last two decades by recruiting recently arrived youngsters, most of them illegal, from Central America and Mexico.

The leadership of the Columbia Lil' Cycos gang, which uses murder and racketeering to control the drug market around L.A.'s MacArthur Park, was about 60 percent illegal in 2002, says former assistant U.S. attorney Luis Li. Francisco Martinez, a Mexican Mafia member and an illegal alien, controlled the gang from prison, while serving time for felonious reentry following deportation.

-snip-

Between 1991 - 1995

The number of illegal aliens sentenced in federal courts increased by 167 percent , compared with 13 percent for citizens. The number of legal aliens declined by 18 percent over this period.

The share of defendants in federal courts who were illegal aliens rose from 4 percent to 11 percent while the share who were legal aliens declined from 12 percent to 9 percent.
The number of illegal aliens sentenced increased for 89 of the 94 federal district courts, for all major offense categories, and for all major country of citizenship groups.

There is no denying that illegal immigrants commit crimes. They start by committing a crime by being here illegally. In that sense EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM is a criminal. That's 100%.

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OCCOM BILL wrote:

Fox: You either didn't read or didn't understand what I wrote. I just proved that the total of crimes committed by foreign born Mexicans could be attributed to Illegal Aliens and it would still be less than the average American. Your answer above is an exercise in hypocrisy. Watch:

Foxfyre wrote:
Bill, why is it you insist on misinterpreting what I write so consistently?

in reference to this statement:

Quote:
It doesn't take a huge leap of logic to conclude that a person willing to break U.S. laws to be here might be more willing than the average person to break other laws as well.

Within the context of the discussion in which I said this you have not acknowledged that I have also:

Foxfyre wrote:
1) Drawn a distinction between violent crime and other crime and/or the kind of crime that violates rules but does not violate the property and person of others. You seem to be unable to see these distinctions I suspect because it is inconvenient to your argument to do so.
This is the very distinction you've steadfastly denied. Crime that violates rules but not property or people is irrelevant to the security of the country. Border crossing in itself fits this category. If that's all you meant; then your point was pointless. I don't believe you.

Foxfyre wrote:
2) I have explained that the tendency to break laws and repeat illegal behavior applies to all people and not just people coming into the country illegally. You won't acknowledge that because then you couldn't play the racism card.
Won't acknowledge my ass. That has been the whole of my position and the reason I find your quote above defamatory. Wake up.

Foxfyre wrote:
3) I (and others) have posted evidence from credible sources showing a disproportionate number of crimes against persons or property committed by illegals. These sources forcus on ILLEGALS and not on immigrants. No source suggests that most illegals are doing these crimes, but the evidence seems to show that a disproportionate number of illegals are committing property and/or crimes against persons than the population as a whole. I have been quite clear that I think LEGAL immigrants probably commit measurably fewer crimes than the population as a whole and that even MOST illegals are not committing property crimes or violent crimes. But you don't make that distinction I suppose because then your argument is shot full of holes.
This is utter nonsense. You've posted no CREDIBLE evidence that shows illegals commit a disproportionate amount of crime... and the U.S. Census bureau info I just provided proves that, beyond a reasonable doubt. You are 100% wrong on this, but refuse to acknowledge the facts. The FACT is that immigrants of all kinds commit less crime than their American born counterparts. LOOK AT THE CHARTS ABOVE!

Foxfyre wrote:
4) I distinguish between immigrants and illegals. You seem to have a problem doing that. So do the authors of the piece that you posted. I have no problem whatsoever with legal immigrants. You can't seem to understand that. The only way you can play the racism card on this point is to lump all foreign born people into the same group. I don't do that and it is dishonest to do so.
The reason reasonable people have trouble distinguishing between immigrants and illegals (for statistical purposes) is a lack of available credible sources; not a lack of desire. However; as demonstrated in conclusion above; even if you ascribe the crime of ALL immigrants to illegals; the overall numbers remain lower than those of people who were born here. Why is that too hard for you to understand? The simple FACT is, the crime rate of foreign born people is so much lower than that of people born here, that you could ascribe 100% of it to illegals and it STILL wouldn't match the rate of people born here. Wake up.

Foxfyre wrote:
5) You seem to be fixated on Mexicans and continue to try to make this a racist issue against Mexicans. Why is that do you think? In contrast, I do not care what race, nationality, or color of skin a person might have or where they came from. For me it is a behaviorial problem and/or security problem and not a racial problem. You can't seem to see the difference.
My fixation on Mexicans stems from the FACT that the majority of illegals are Mexicans. Your behavioral problem and/or security problem is utterly unsupported by the available facts and therefore constitutes a racial problem in it's ignorant repetition.

Foxfyre wrote:
6) And while you duck and weave and dodge and omit information or manufacture information to characterize me in the racist mold, you refuse to see or acknowledge the very genuine concerns being raised re uncontrolled borders and not being able to say who is and who is not in the country. You don't seem to care who enters the country. That's your prerogative. It's my prerogative to believe that's a bad situation.
While I duck and weave? It is your prerogative to repeat defamatory pseudo facts with impunity, yes. It is my prerogative to demonstrate the falseness of your claims, which I've done.

Try this:
Real border issues: Drug trade, potential for terrorists to slip in, overpopulation, job market saturation, disease, etc.

Bullshit border issues: Crime, language, values, ability to assimilate, etc.

Immigrant's tendency towards criminal activity is so significantly lower than the American average that it is a complete fabrication and is defamatory in nature, since not one shred of credible evidence supports it. You asked for the evidence, I searched until I found it and now you behave as if you didn't even bother to read it. Open your mind Foxy, and you will realize that your entire line of argument (Crime committed by Illegals) is a Red Herring... since the statistics clearly show that their crime rate couldn't possibly match the rate of the people who already live here.

Okay Bill. You're making no sense and I don't care to keep restating the same opinions/positions/convictions that I have consistently been posting through the months of this discussion. I accept you'll keep repeating your broken record themes and ignoring or denying anything that doesn't fit with the position you have taken. I accept that is your opinion that there should be no immigration policy, no immigration controls, and no immigration enforcement. My position is quite different. I'm going to let it go at that unless you have something different to offer than the same broken record theme.

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Foxfyre wrote:

Okay Bill. You're making no sense and I don't care to keep restating the same opinions/positions/convictions that I have consistently been posting through the months of this discussion. I accept you'll keep repeating your broken record themes and ignoring or denying anything that doesn't fit with the position you have taken. I accept that is your opinion that there should be no immigration policy, no immigration controls, and no immigration enforcement. My position is quite different. I'm going to let it go at that unless you have something different to offer than the same broken record theme.

Translation: I'm going to ignore the undeniable facts and go on pretending illegal immigrants commit more crime than American Citizens, even though this is a bigoted, defamatory and false position. Rolling Eyes

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OCCOM BILL wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:
Okay Bill. You're making no sense and I don't care to keep restating the same opinions/positions/convictions that I have consistently been posting through the months of this discussion. I accept you'll keep repeating your broken record themes and ignoring or denying anything that doesn't fit with the position you have taken. I accept that is your opinion that there should be no immigration policy, no immigration controls, and no immigration enforcement. My position is quite different. I'm going to let it go at that unless you have something different to offer than the same broken record theme.
Translation: I'm going to ignore the undeniable facts and go on pretending illegal immigrants commit more crime than American Citizens, even though this is a bigoted, defamatory and false position.

Your translation is as wrong and personally insulting as the rest of your argument. You present statistics focused on crimes committed by immigrants and try to pass these off as somehow related to the statistics others have posted re crimes committed by illegals. Even you should be able to discern the difference between the two. And rather than look at and comment and correct, if warranted, the statistics re illegals, you resort to the illogical liberal mantra that you better agree with Obill or you're bigoted, defamatory, and a liar.

Broken record. Illogical. Tiresome.

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OCCOM BILL wrote:

Translation: I'm going to ignore the undeniable facts and go on pretending illegal immigrants commit more crime than American Citizens, even though this is a bigoted, defamatory and false position.

How many illegal aliens are there? An estimate would be fine.

How many American citizens? Again, an estimate will be fine.

How many and what types of crimes do we want to examine? Felonies? Want to include lesser crimes?

It's a simple process really. How many crimes, percentage wise, were committed?

Considering every single illegal alien is already guilty of a crime, it shouldn't be too hard to figure out.

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There is a pattern here that's been going on for 3 years. It gives a bad name to the concept of rational debate, but it often makes for interesting entertainment not at all unlike Who's On First.

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McGentrix wrote:

OCCOM BILL wrote:
Translation: I'm going to ignore the undeniable facts and go on pretending illegal immigrants commit more crime than American Citizens, even though this is a bigoted, defamatory and false position.

How many illegal aliens are there? An estimate would be fine.

How many American citizens? Again, an estimate will be fine.

How many and what types of crimes do we want to examine? Felonies? Want to include lesser crimes?

It's a simple process really. How many crimes, percentage wise, were committed?

Considering every single illegal alien is already guilty of a crime, it shouldn't be too hard to figure out.

Exactly McG. Show me statistics re ILLEGALS from credible sources that dispute the other statistics posted, and reasonable people will certainly look at them and consider them as warranted. Tell people they are bigoted, defamatory, racist, or selfish because they are using statistics from credible sources and......welll.......I don't think I even have to say again what that kind of debate is.

The defenders of illegals, however, are all joined at the hip in one respect. They absolutely will not consider any point of view other than advocacy for open borders, unenforced immigration policy, and a blind eye to any negatives of any kind associated with that.

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Foxy, you're being obtuse. As demonstrated; you can put ALL of the immigrant crime on the backs of the illegals and your point would still be without merit. Willful ignorance in defense of defamatory bullshit is bigotry's best friend.

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OCCOM BILL wrote:

Foxy, you're being obtuse. As demonstrated; you can put ALL of the immigrant crime on the backs of the illegals and your point would still be without merit. Willful ignorance in defense of defamatory bullshit is bigotry's best friend.

You can say it is bullshit til the cows come home, Bill, but without any proof it's just saying the word. So far I have seen no proof that the sources posted got it wrong.

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Foxfyre wrote:

OCCOM BILL wrote:
Foxy, you're being obtuse. As demonstrated; you can put ALL of the immigrant crime on the backs of the illegals and your point would still be without merit. Willful ignorance in defense of defamatory bullshit is bigotry's best friend.

You can say it is bullshit til the cows come home, Bill, but without any proof it's just saying the word. So far I have seen no proof that the sources posted got it wrong.

Then open your eyes. I posted proof last night.

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OCCOM BILL wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:
OCCOM BILL wrote:
Foxy, you're being obtuse. As demonstrated; you can put ALL of the immigrant crime on the backs of the illegals and your point would still be without merit. Willful ignorance in defense of defamatory bullshit is bigotry's best friend.

You can say it is bullshit til the cows come home, Bill, but without any proof it's just saying the word. So far I have seen no proof that the sources posted got it wrong.
Then open your eyes. I posted proof last night.

No, your 'proof' focused on immigrants, not illegals. I'm not about to accept anybody trying to combine these two things.

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Bill, did you miss this post?

McGentrix wrote:

The Illegal-Alien Crime Wave

-snip-
Police commanders may not want to discuss, much less respond to, the illegal-alien crisis, but its magnitude for law enforcement is startling. Some examples:

In Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide (which total 1,200 to 1,500) target illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (17,000) are for illegal aliens.

A confidential California Department of Justice study reported in 1995 that 60 percent of the 20,000-strong 18th Street Gang in southern California is illegal; police officers say the proportion is actually much greater. The bloody gang collaborates with the Mexican Mafia, the dominant force in California prisons, on complex drug-distribution schemes, extortion, and drive-by assassinations, and commits an assault or robbery every day in L.A. County. The gang has grown dramatically over the last two decades by recruiting recently arrived youngsters, most of them illegal, from Central America and Mexico.

The leadership of the Columbia Lil' Cycos gang, which uses murder and racketeering to control the drug market around L.A.'s MacArthur Park, was about 60 percent illegal in 2002, says former assistant U.S. attorney Luis Li. Francisco Martinez, a Mexican Mafia member and an illegal alien, controlled the gang from prison, while serving time for felonious reentry following deportation.

-snip-

Between 1991 - 1995

The number of illegal aliens sentenced in federal courts increased by 167 percent , compared with 13 percent for citizens. The number of legal aliens declined by 18 percent over this period.

The share of defendants in federal courts who were illegal aliens rose from 4 percent to 11 percent while the share who were legal aliens declined from 12 percent to 9 percent.
The number of illegal aliens sentenced increased for 89 of the 94 federal district courts, for all major offense categories, and for all major country of citizenship groups.

There is no denying that illegal immigrants commit crimes. They start by committing a crime by being here illegally. In that sense EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM is a criminal. That's 100%.

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What should be done about illegal immigration?

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