I Was Invisible, Except for My White Skin

A laudable goal . . .

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snood wrote:

dlowan, I figured you might take that personally, because of the proximity of my post to yours. I would have waited before I sent mine, but I decided not to tiptoe around you. I was simply referring to the many posts that have said the results of the test were confusing.

Lol!

Well, ok then.

But I'm a watchin' ya.....

I blame Morgan Freeman etc for my results.

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Bella Dea,

Sometimes I'm afraid that someone may be racist toward me (a bit paranoid maybe, but I'm working on it) and maybe the lady is feeling that way extremely for some insecure reasons. Or she could be an actual racist, but it's all speculations. I can understand why you're angry though. People should realize that racism is discrimination against people of any race.

It is possible for humans to get away from "us" vs. "them" stereotypes, or at least be aware of it enough that one can avoid being sucked into it. Optimism and pessimism are inadequate; we should take a middle approach, realizing the possibilities and the need to continue working for what's good.

BTW, why was this thread locked before?

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Degenerated to insult trading betwen a couple of members, would be my guess...so some cool down time was warranted.

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Bella, the woman's actions were natural I think.

I can only put myself in her place, for example.

If I it had been three guys, me in one corner and a gay guy in the other corner (Yes, we can tell the fags apart.) I'd definitely ask the gay guy.

It's a strange feeling, like the guy's almost family. You associate everyone in your certain group with trustworthiness. In my case I know a gay guy won't get confrontational if I talk to him. (You'd be surprised what the hetero boys think of as coming on to them lol)

You should have tried putting yourself in the woman's place, it would have made sense then.

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Re: I Was Invisible, Except for My White Skin

Bella Dea wrote:

I was downtown Detroit, sitting between two black women. The one woman needed to get up to use the bathroom or something and so she turned and said "Can you watch my seat?" but instead of asking me, who was right next to her, she was shouting it to the other black woman who was on the other side of me. Just as though I wasn't there. I truly felt invisible. And untrusted. Like I'd steal her machine or something.

They clearly didn't know each other so don't say that maybe they were friends or whatever.

I couldn't believe it. At first I was pissed but then got to thinking, "So, this is what it feels like..." and to be honest, I think it will make me think twice the next time I feel a prejudice against someone based on their looks, be it skin color or weight or whatever.

It makes me sad to know that the people who cry "racist" at me (which is the case here in many parts of Detroit) are the ones who are racist.

I can understand your response, Bella. As a person, not as a member of a particular race. The obvious person to ask for your seat to be saved is the person sitting right next to you! I live in a very multi-cultural community, myself. Muslims, Greeks, Italians, eastern Europeans & all the newest comers, etc. etc ... The best way to get by, I reckon, is to treat others with respect & trust. And I think it works just fine, most of the time. I go out of my way for people who are "new" to this community - Which way to the health centre? What does this bit of information about this item for sale mean? It is all just part of daily life where I live. I do notice, however, that women seem far more trusting about approaching strangers than men are. I'm not sure why that is. But, as a another woman, I really appreciate this.

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A lot of men are eaten up by macho notions about being a strong, silent type, which won't allow them to ask for help. Other men have a self-assertion/agression thing going on, and without good "anger management" either hesitate to speak to strangers because they don't want to get angry, or because they understand that about those other clowns, and don't want to risk some idiot's anger response. Largely, though, i think it's like asking for directions, they simply don't want to admit that they are not 100% independent and omni-competent.

Me, i always ask for directions, even when i'm fairly certain where i'm going, just to be on the safe side. Really surprises people sometimes, though, as they seem unaccustomed to men asking for directions. Oftentimes, it's a wonderful excuse to talk to a pretty lady . . . don't tell Lovey i said that, K?

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"either hesitate to speak to strangers because they don't want to get angry,"

Can you elucidate?

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I would not have thought that were so hard to get--some people have a hair-trigger temper, and they know it, so they avoid speaking to others altogether--all wrapped up with an overweening pride and self-image (i suspect a self-image which is actaully poor, which they don't consciously admit, but of which they are nevertheless aware at some level--i've known loads of guys in that category).

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Really????

It was a bit convoluted....and I am trying to imagine being aware of such a thing, and not being able to deal with it better.

Hmmmm...I guess it is like keeping away from certain thread subjects because I know I will get drawn in and angry.

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Have you never seen that guy in the shop who is surly and largely monosyllabic with the lady or gentleman behind the counter, and for no apparent reason? Have you never seen that man walking down the street with a scowl on his face, oft-times muttering to himself? You are surrounded in every crowded public place you visit with men (and probably women as well, although the signs might be different) who have ungovernable tempers, are almost always angry, and know it on some level, and therefore their days are a constant struggle to avoid "losing it," and being obliged to face the consequences.

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I'd warrant it is something a boy learns rather early on. We have an expression in the New Nited States for someone who is perennially looking for a fight--he's got a chip on his shoulder. Every day, every where you go, you are in the company of men (and perhaps women) with a chip on their respective shoulders, whether or not you know it.

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Setanta

In my experience (for what it's worth) it's not so much the surliness or anger of the men that stops them from asking for assistance from others. It seems more likely to me to being about pride or religion (in the case of Muslim men, especially.) They would consider it completely inappropriate to talk to women (who they don't know) in the street. The women, on the other hand, feel much more comfortable about talking to other women when needing help.

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No argument here, Miss Olga. I was just canvassing a variety of reasons why men don't ask for help.

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Perhaps women are just more confident.

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Actually, I think it has to do with roles. Men are groomed early to watch out for aggressors (and watch out for the*ir* women and small ones). Stereotype?! If so, I think it is often accurate.

Look at women who grew up and had to take a masculine role early (me for example). You don't walk up to strangers and ask bc....you're watching your butt and not everyone is safe to talk to. You're checking out who's running the situation. Sometimes there is a level of fear/anger/hostility as well - Set. touched on that.

Many women, whether they admit it or not, have lived with a protective covering of male eyes/arms/support. Nearly all of us. It's a luxury to be able to peaceably speak to anyone; and in most cases it probably is okay and the smart thing to do. But in some situations it's not an option.

That is my experience.

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Maybe, maybe....

That was a pretty insightful post. I'm not sure if I can say the same for my experience. I was insecure, and this actually goes back to elementary school when I was a new resident of North America, and I didn't speak English well and stuff. Anyways, I felt I guess what a psychologist would call an inferiority complex. I'm over it mostly, though I still lack a bit of confidence.

For me it's something to do with a feeling of security(against insults, etc) then. It is good though to be careful to a reasonable extent, but it's not good when you completely avoids talking to a person.

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During WW2 most German women took over the role of running a family or a business or a farm.
.
Long after the war the husband finally came home.
.
There were many tense and almost impossible situations with two strong minds in charge of the reunited family.
.
Women can be just as capable and steely as any man.

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detano inipo wrote:

During WW2 most German women took over the role of running a family or a business or a farm.
.
Long after the war the husband finally came home.
.
There were many tense and almost impossible situations with two strong minds in charge of the reunited family.
.
Women can be just as capable and steely as any man.

Did they become lesbians and kept the men as cart-pullers?

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I work with 3 guys from Africa, 2 African-American guys, and one other white female.

Yesterday, a family from Africa came in. They were greeted by one of the African American guys, spoke for a few minutes and then walked around the store looking at stuff. About five minutes later, the husband approaches one of the African guys and says "You are from _____? The African guy I work with says yes, and names the village. They start talking.

After a few minutes the customer from Africa says (right in front of me, and while looking at me) "Don't worry about it, man. There are white girls and other guys here, but I will ask for you. We are brothers."

I immediately thought of this thread.

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I Was Invisible, Except for My White Skin

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