1
   

I Was Invisible, Except for My White Skin

 
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Apr, 2006 09:28 am
snood wrote:
if I don't just humbly agree "All discrimination is wrong", and say no more, it seems to unleash some pretty strong emotion, and people seem to feel free to accuse me of some pretty strong stuff.

All discrimination is wrong, okay?

I'm reminded though, of an experience I had while serving at Tripler AMC in Hawaii. I became privvy to several instances of whites being "hated on", so to speak, by the Asians and Polynesians there. I kept hearing whites talking about how they had been discriminated against for jobs, or how they had been disrespected in sundry ways. I gotta admit, my gut reaction was a deep sense of irony, and outright amusement at the angst the whites expressed. I couldn't help thinking "that's just a taste of it, but that's the general idea".

[..] I can see where that isn't the ideal, mature, progressive response - I admit it doesn't display perfect equanimity. I think it's a natural, human response [..]

I think that makes perfect sense.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Apr, 2006 09:33 am
sozobe wrote:
In the thick of an argument I may even tone things down a bit compared to how I'd argue with some people IRL -- I have friends that I'll get way more blunt and rough with than I do here . . .


This surprises me. In real life, i avoid such topics, i consider them boring, and am much more entertained in company with people who have a wry, or even a wicked outlook, and want to engage in witty banter. Sure, i know, what i consider witty banter might not strike others that way. But in social situations, i will get up and walk away if it is necessary to avoid a political or religious discussion. I only discuss such matters with people with whom i am very close, and usually only in a "one-on-one" situation.

Here, however, i more or less feel that the situation is almost a perfect "no holds barred."
0 Replies
 
shewolfnm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Apr, 2006 09:44 am
set

you are speaking my language.


I would rather make jokes about keeping children in the closet with an IV of slim fast , until they are old enough to get a job and pay my bills, instead of talking about george bush...

humph
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Apr, 2006 09:56 am
Totally depends on the person for me -- only fun if the other person is having fun, too.

But if the other person (or people) are having fun, too, it's great!

I have lots of different kinds of friendships, with some overlap (part of why the forum experience is interesting for me, so many contradictory aspects of my personality on display for all, rather than being compartmentalized); the ones I share deep personal stuff with, the ones I argue about politics with, the ones I argue about sports with, the ones I talk about parenting with, the ones I keep up a steady general banter with, the ones I talk about fashion with, etc., etc. Some friends cover only one category (general banter that never goes deeper, for example), some cover several.

At any rate, I think I say here about what I'd say IRL, with an emphasis on trying to be straightforward.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Apr, 2006 10:04 am
sozobe wrote:
At any rate, I think I say here about what I'd say IRL, with an emphasis on trying to be straightforward.


That sounds about right for me as well.
0 Replies
 
shewolfnm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Apr, 2006 10:14 am
I wish my RL matched with A2K better..
then again i dont.

Im alot less brazen irl.
More laid back, just as silly, but .. I have been told that the 2 are so diffrent , you wouldnt GUESS that I say / do the things I do on this forum.
Laughing

maybe that is a good thing.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Apr, 2006 01:19 pm
Thanks for the honest replies - i was a little afeerd that one was gonna blow up in my face....
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Apr, 2006 02:00 pm
snood wrote:
Do you think that if I was standing right next to you (that's 'you' in the generic sense), that you and I would be as uncivil with each other?


That depends entirely on you, buster. http://web4.ehost-services.com/el2ton1/boxing.gif
0 Replies
 
Region Philbis
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Apr, 2006 03:07 pm
Tico, how long has your smoke been animated?

(just noticing...)
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Apr, 2006 03:19 pm
Region Philbis wrote:
Tico, how long has your smoke been animated?

(just noticing...)


Only 2 days.

Thank you jpinmilwaukee. http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/734/worshippy3bf.gif
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Apr, 2006 03:23 pm
Ticomaya wrote:
snood wrote:
Do you think that if I was standing right next to you (that's 'you' in the generic sense), that you and I would be as uncivil with each other?


That depends entirely on you, buster. http://web4.ehost-services.com/el2ton1/boxing.gif


Heh, heh. Hey, smile when you say that, buster..... Smile
0 Replies
 
Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Apr, 2006 05:52 pm
snood,

Me too. I would be sacked, beaten up and divorced if I was as honest IRL as I am here. That's what I like most about A2K. I'm more "who I really am" here.
0 Replies
 
detano inipo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Apr, 2006 06:12 pm
In my up-and-down life I worked with native people, with black people and with guys who had a number tattooed on their arms.
.
They are equal now; still I remember their suffering in years gone by. I am deeply ashamed about the hard times they or their ancestors had.

I tried not to have an argument with them. I was very civil towards them.

I know what suffering means. That's why I respect these people so much.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Apr, 2006 11:20 am
Setanta wrote:

Quote:
What a marvellous display of smug condescension. What a succinct statement of the "y'all wouldn't understand" conceit of blacks in America, as though they were the only ones who have ever experienced discrimination, the only ones capable of true, meaningful comment. What a load of self-serving hooey . . .


directly followed by....

Quote:
A graphic display of the quality of your participation.


The "quality" of my "participation" isn't dependent on your approval. Your words above are a graphic display of your stifling snottiness.
0 Replies
 
kitchenpete
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Apr, 2006 05:45 am
Amigo wrote:
We are part everybody. To my grave I will live no other way.


Amigo

That's beautiful - certainly a principle to live by. I'm slowly catching up with this thread - lots to read and consider.

Comments on subject matter to follow!

KP
0 Replies
 
detano inipo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Apr, 2006 06:30 am
It is hard to believe that not too long ago the US had a shameful apartheid, enforced by law.
.........................................
"Jim Crow" Laws
From the 1880s into the 1960s, a majority of American states enforced segregation through "Jim Crow" laws (so called after a black character in minstrel shows). From Delaware to California, and from North Dakota to Texas, many states (and cities, too) could impose legal punishments on people for consorting with members of another race. The most common types of laws forbade intermarriage and ordered business owners and public institutions to keep their black and white clientele separated.

Here is a sampling of laws from various states.
.
http://www.nps.gov/malu/documents/jim_crow_laws.htm
..................................
It is interesting to note that at least 16 members of the Virginia General Assembly who claimed to be descendants of Pocahontas objected to the first draft of the law they proposed, because it defined as "non-white" anyone with 1/64 of American Indian ancestry. Alabama and Georgia eventually copied the Virginia law. Within a decade, similar laws prohibiting inter-ethnic marriages and attempting to sort citizens by percentage of Jewish "blood" were adopted by the government of Nazi Germany.
.
http://www.eugenicsarchive.org/html/eugenics/essay7text.html
0 Replies
 
kitchenpete
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Apr, 2006 07:59 am
Well that last comment on the apartheid in America made me think of a story which I tell about certain underlying resentment/racism which exists in some parts of the US which (as far as I've ever seen) does not exist in the UK...other parts of Europe may be different. As I get used to the way the Czechs talk about "gypsies" I realise that different PC standards apply! Rolling Eyes

So, I was visiting Arizona and we'd driven up to Utah. On the way back we stopped at a bar in Winslow. My (American, female, white) companion and I got talking to a couple at the bar - retired but not older than, say, 70.

The woman had never heard an English accent in real life before but (apart from a couple of smutty remarks the man made - ex truck driver, what did I expect) I was truly blown away by what happened next.

A black man of about my own age walked a few paces along the bar to ask me for a cigarette. I gave him one, as I would with almost any one who asked me (unless it was my last one...!) He thanked me and returned to his seat at which point ex-trucker turned to me and said "You shouldn't have done that".

Now, I'm well aware of the health risks of smoking but I didn't expect...and my train of thought was interrupted by the next comment:

"I've got nothing against them, we should each own three of them."

Shocked Shocked Shocked

I considered the merits of taking this as a challenge and then realised that it was pointless and could become painful. I merely pointed out:

"I have a different view and I don't want to discuss it now."

I know that it's an extreme and that most Americans have no similar views but it really opened my eyes to the depths of racism which still exist in some parts. The man made no attempt to laugh it off as a joke or turn it down. He was calling it as he saw it.

....calm down before continuing....

I've been fascinated by this thread. As someone who's been on and off a2k (and before that abuzz) for some time, it's interesting to see that the same fascinating debates take place here.

It's also fascinating to see that the detractors (you know who that is on this thread) are still pitching in with one-liners which make them seem (at best) mentally pubescent.

I took the purpose of the original post as being an insight into "the other view". I remember that I worked with a client about 10 years ago and at the end of the project the teams from my firm and the client company went out for an evening bowling.

One woman had to wear special supports for her feet - something I'd not even noticed to that point. She wasn't able to use the bowling shoes provided, so had to sit out while the rest of us played. It made me think strongly about exclusion on grounds of disability...I felt sad that she had to miss out but I was well aware at the same time that much greater losses were being suffered elsewhere by others.

To comment on your feelings is absolutely your right, Beautiful Goddess, and I'm glad you did so in order to open up this thread.

From small realisations, larger lessons can be learned.

It's good to be back here. Smile

KP
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Apr, 2006 08:03 am
snood wrote:
Setanta wrote:

Quote:
What a marvellous display of smug condescension. What a succinct statement of the "y'all wouldn't understand" conceit of blacks in America, as though they were the only ones who have ever experienced discrimination, the only ones capable of true, meaningful comment. What a load of self-serving hooey . . .


directly followed by....

Quote:
A graphic display of the quality of your participation.


The "quality" of my "participation" isn't dependent on your approval. Your words above are a graphic display of your stifling snottiness.


Now you indulge in outright lies. The second quote of me you have there is a response to a post by you, which is now gone--either deleted by you as i was responding, or removed by the moderators because it contained yet another of your childish, sneering insults.

You get out of such exchanges what you put into them. You put in the ego of a vicious, childish bully and whiner. Small wonder that you get the responses you do.

Don't make sh!t up--you knew damned well the second quote responds to a post which is now gone.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Apr, 2006 09:27 am
Setanta wrote:
snood wrote:
Setanta wrote:

Quote:
What a marvellous display of smug condescension. What a succinct statement of the "y'all wouldn't understand" conceit of blacks in America, as though they were the only ones who have ever experienced discrimination, the only ones capable of true, meaningful comment. What a load of self-serving hooey . . .


directly followed by....

Quote:
A graphic display of the quality of your participation.


The "quality" of my "participation" isn't dependent on your approval. Your words above are a graphic display of your stifling snottiness.


Now you indulge in outright lies. The second quote of me you have there is a response to a post by you, which is now gone--either deleted by you as i was responding, or removed by the moderators because it contained yet another of your childish, sneering insults.

You get out of such exchanges what you put into them. You put in the ego of a vicious, childish bully and whiner. Small wonder that you get the responses you do.

Don't make sh!t up--you knew damned well the second quote responds to a post which is now gone.


You have nerve calling anyone a bully. Of anyone on A2K, you indulge most in trying to push people around. And I'm not alone in seeing this, Setanta - you are the most unapologetic blowhard punk on this board. You've even admitted you like the "no holds bar5red" aspect of anonymously letting fly. That's because you're a coward, who knows he could not do this any other way. The hell with you.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Apr, 2006 09:30 am
Anytime you feel froggy, i'll be more than happy to meet you in person, and you can demonstrate my alleged cowardice.

I have reported your post as an attack on a member, and in keeping with my policy, am informing you to that effect.
0 Replies
 
 

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