Are Conservative Values Inconsistent With Being a Christian?

Most of my professional life has been spent teaching people how to fish. The programs that do so consistently have to fight for funding, at all, but Democratic administrations are more forthcoming than Republican ones.

I can go track down some sources, but this is my (wo)man-on-the-spot observation. In the small and large and enormous agencies that I have run or been a part of, you can expect to find people who fervently hope for Democratic administrations for this reason.

I think that the term 'conservativ' has different implications in varying historical and geographical contexts, e.g. USA and Europe, today and in history.

I've learnt that's the same about 'christian'.

Would you support making gambling illegal?
Would you put a cap on how much an individual can gamble?
Isn't this a personal rights issue?

Also, I have been part of the Welfare to Work issue for a long, long time, since Tommy started pushing it in Wisconsin, and it was in large part (some would say ...

argh gotta go but will just leave that so I can pick up my thought later...

(mental note to self: "gotta pm dys RE: his hyperbole")

I would think that the general use of the terms, or in the instance of a different interpretation of same, a note regarding that interpretation of the word, would suffice in those instances where a definition of a term may conflict in the minds of different readers/writers.

But Criminy!!!

I acknowledge that you are approaching seasoned citizen status dys, but why do I have to do all the heavy lifting for you?

I think Frank summed up the situation quite famously, and the corrected name is duly noted.

A pox upon me for my ignorance about your handle.

yeah right dad get a clue

You're veering off topic.

Re-read the question that opens.

Personally I would be OK if Billy got a BJ while he pulled the $500 slots at the Bellagio.

Just so long as He STOPS THAT DAMN JUDGMENTAL SERMONIZING about everyone else's peccadilloes.

There's just a little something awry here: the millions he's earned, on the topics he's written about, makes his gambling jones a wee bit hypocritical...

YAY!
Frank and maxsdadeo--
I like this thread.
I hope we can keep it on ideologies and policies.

PDid--

I was trying to process your post about Bennett as it related to the thread topic.

When you single out a person, rather than discussing Conservative policy, you took us off on personal rights...

If we start discussing individuals, we lose the topic and just start partisan grousing, like on all the other threads.

I believe Bennett did lose the right to talk about personal values with credibility--but that one man doesn't represent conservative policy. It would be silly and self-serving for me to cull out embarrassing liberals and use them to characterize the entire Democrat party...

I'm just here for a sec... can I keep going about Tommy Thompson and Welfare to Work, since it's something I feel pretty strongly about? Or is that off topic?

Basically, liberals brought Tommy yelling and screaming from much more draconian measures ("they just won't get any more handouts after this deadline. That'll get 'em motivated.") to more workable measures ("OK, so we'll provide job training. Childcare, you say? Maybe. OK fine, pipe down, will ya?")

Yes, I'm drastically simplifying, can come back with cold hard facts later if so requested.

Dear Sofie, the thread is about conservative values, not conservative policy.

And even if it were conservative policy, which conservative individual would be better to speak to that (at least until yesterday) than Bennett?

How can we have a discussion of conservative values and make off-limits the opinions (in his many books on the subject) of a conservative?

Since this thread is posted in the General News category ...

Gosh.

Walter is the General News Czar.
maxs started the thread.
PDid is going in one direction, and I don't know where to go from here.

I'd love to discuss what I think is the topic. Also, interested in sozobe's insights and info--

Could maxs meet with Walter to uncover the parameters?

I don't mind at all - it's maxsdadeo's choice/thread.

BTW: I'm no monarchist and no 'Czar' at all :wink:

Only meant 'czar' in the most respectful, deferential manner. The ultimate authority. Please overlook communication imperfections.

Your kneeling down is most graciously accepted, Sofia :wink:

It is my opinion there are several American conservative stances in the social/domestic arena that run contrary to the central theme of Jesus' message and philosophy. The one I offered earlier for discussion is an example of such a program - and, in my opinion, inconsistent stance.

It happens (this is slightly off point) that I also am of the opinion that what we currently refer to as "Christianity" (the general population of Christian churches and people who consider themselves Christians) is in that same situation. I think it can logically be argued that Christianity has already discarded much of the essence of Jesus' message in favor of a more pragmatic approach to life.

And of course, I acknowledge this may be the reason American conservatives feel comfortable with the situation.

But be that as it may -- conservative values -- insofar as they run contrary to the central theme of Jesus' message - while admittedly being consistent with being a Christian as currently defined, are decidedly inconsistent with the teachings of Jesus.

I think "the teachings of Jesus" ought to trump "Christian pragmatism" in this discussion.

I am in agreement with that, Frank.
I think we may run into a bit of a complication, because many of the ideas forwarded by Jesus were about personal behavior.

He also talked about giving to Caesar what is Caesar's, and individual deference to the powers of government.

I anticipate some saying--Jesus said turn the other cheek. Would this translate, in your view, to a nation refusing to fight a war against an invader, hence becoming slaves, due to their 'obedience' to that teaching point?

Not assuming, just checking you out.

I guess the Conservative value here would be STRONG NATIONAL DEFENSE. Actually, we might need to try to agree on Conservative values.

That is the stuff I'm interested in -- and the stuff that prompted me to question Max in this area.



I have no problem with that and agree that the Bible says he said it.

But I doubt Jesus ever envisioned the kind of democracy we have here in American -- or he would have added "...and if there is no Caesar to whom to render -- make sure you vote in ways that will insure the institution of the things I speak to you about."

Not being a wise-ass there -- just noting that we can influence in a very big way what "Caesar demands -- in fact, in a way of speaking, we are Caesar. So Caesar must be held to account.




I am just going to deline to speak to that issue, Sofia. I am going to limit my comments to the area of social and domestic issues so that this discussion doesn't get unwieldy. Obviously if anyone else wants to discuss it, have a ball.

OK, I feel I understand your parameters on 'Christian'. And, I agree (though I don't speak for Jesus), he would expect Christians to vote their values. (Of course, this can be represented as a mixed bag in politics...)

How do we define Conservative values?

Anti-abortion?
Strong military?
Pro-business?
Faith-based initiatives?
More?