WOMEN IN JUDAEO-CHRISTIAN TRADITIONS VERSUS WOMEN IN ISLAM

He's not capable of thought. Only acting based on the ridiculous superstitions that have beaten into a now severely damaged mind.

where I come from, it is not obligated to wear it (hajib)....

I put some serious effort into a serious post on the previous page. I asked some specific questions. Would either of you two ladies Adele or Muslim1 care to respond?

In England we do not inflict cruel and barbaric punishments such as stoning

We abolished capital punishment many years ago, and I totally oppose any moves to restore it.

But supposing for one moment we did execute criminals for certain offenses. What would those offenses be? Pretty horrendous certainly... murder being the obvious example. Then rape, particularly of children....(how old btw was Mohammed's youngest wife...8 or 6?)...perhaps conspiracy to commit acts of terror...all these very serious offenses have been cited as deserving the death penalty. Some people would go further, and want to see armed robbers and muggers exectuted. Where do we draw the line? Sheep stealing? Parking on a double yellow line? Being rude to a government minister? Of course no one advocates that, it would be totally absurd. Execution of criminals for trivial offenses is not a hallmark of a civilised society.

However if you had your way, and we lived under shariaa law

you would have people exectuted not for something they did but because of something they thought. In your world, UNBELIEF itself is a capital offense.

Lets be quite clear what we are talking about here. NO-ONE, no child born on this planet is born a muslim.

But suppose we in this country were to introduce a law which made conversion from Christianity to Islam a criminal offense. Not just a crime but a crime punishable by death. Someone ceases going to Church on a Sunday and goes to a mosque on Friday. They should be killed. For simply going to a different building on a different day of the week.

Mohammed said "Let their be no compulsion in religion". What he obviously meant was that anyone is free to join

I want you to think very carefully about what I have said here Muslim1 and consider if Islam is compatible with modern liberal secular democracy. And if its not, which of the two systems is the more civilised?

Wilso, i can understand that you do not like the way these fundamentalists are....neither do I. but you don't need to be nasty and call names like that.... I am not a pig. And I don't like the death penalty......Have some respect for the muslims here.......Please

Steve wrote:

Quote:

I put some serious effort into a serious post on the previous page. I asked some specific questions. Would either of you two ladies Adele or Muslim1 care to respond?

I put even more serious effort into more serious posts (including one on page 11 with xingu). But, as a Muslim, I do no necessarily expect an answer or a response. I mean, I put the effort, and it is God to guide whom He wills, the results are up to almighty God. In Islam, Steve, there is something called: "working for the sake of Allah", not for the sake of being noticed, of being praised, of being respected...
However, I thank you very much and appreciate the important effort you made in your post. I am very happy that a non-muslim puts an effort on a post regarding my religion. That's way I'll put a humble effort trying my best to respond:


Steve wrote:

Quote:

In England we do not inflict cruel and barbaric punishments such as stoning

The laws made in England are man-made, and I think you will agree with me that something man-made is not sacred, is not divine, is not perfect. You said to me many times that you believe in "some sort of God". Didn't you ever wonder what your God have to say regarding punishments of major crimes? England is not your God to blindly follow its laws. And btw, those man-made laws may well change if the governments or the members of high courts change, but in the case of Islam the laws are valid for every time and every place, because Islam is God-made.



Steve wrote:

Quote:

We abolished capital punishment many years ago, and I totally oppose any moves to restore it.

Suppose you have two beautiful and innocent children, a boy and a girl. If a criminal comes without reason and kills your beloved children, what would be your reaction? Would you still oppose the capital punishment against this murderer? If you ask me the same question, I'll go without hesitation for the death penalty.
Steve, for a law to be just and fair, it has to be global, not following the desires of a specific person. That's why the best laws are God's, because God knows what will benefit ALL the people, not only a particular individual.



Steve wrote:

Quote:

But supposing for one moment we did execute criminals for certain offenses. What would those offenses be? Pretty horrendous certainly... murder being the obvious example. Then rape, particularly of children....(how old btw was Mohammed's youngest wife...8 or 6?)...perhaps conspiracy to commit acts of terror...all these very serious offenses have been cited as deserving the death penalty. Some people would go further, and want to see armed robbers and muggers exectuted. Where do we draw the line? Sheep stealing? Parking on a double yellow line? Being rude to a government minister? Of course no one advocates that, it would be totally absurd. Execution of criminals for trivial offenses is not a hallmark of a civilised society.

1) I agree with you that trivial offences should not be punished with the death penalty.
2) You have to know, Steve, that in Islam, only three horrendous crimes are punished with execution: The Prophet Muhammad (Peace and blessings be upon him) said: "The blood of a Muslim, who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims"
3) Question: Do you consider a society that is not following the commandments of God a "civilised society"?



Steve wrote:

Quote:

However if you had your way, and we lived under shariaa law

The "Shariaa" word should not create fear in your heart. It is simply the law established by God for people to apply in this Earth. The God who has infinite favor upon you: he gave you a heart to feel with, a brain to reason with, a tongue to express your positions with... He is the same God who defined the Noble Shariaa for your and my benefit, for the interest of all the people of the world.



Steve wrote:

Quote:

you would have people exectuted not for something they did but because of something they thought. In your world, UNBELIEF itself is a capital offense.

Here is a link in an other thread giving some reasons why apostasy is a major and horrendous crime in Islam: http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1385934#1385934 (the question on apostasy)



Steve wrote:

Quote:

Lets be quite clear what we are talking about here. NO-ONE, no child born on this planet is born a muslim.

I completely disagree. EVERY child is born Muslim: the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) said that.
That's why we call a person who change faith into the Truth (Islam) a "revert" instead of "convert".



Steve wrote:

Quote:

But suppose we in this country were to introduce a law which made conversion from Christianity to Islam a criminal offense. Not just a crime but a crime punishable by death. Someone ceases going to Church on a Sunday and goes to a mosque on Friday. They should be killed. For simply going to a different building on a different day of the week.

1) Again, that's the problem of man-made laws. It can be change following the desires of people. That's not the case of God-made laws.
2) You can introduce a law which kills every revert Muslim. Do you think you will harm him/her in this case? On the contrary, by killing him/her, you will send him/her straight away to Paradise as a Martyr.
3) And do you think that this law will limit the propagation of Islam? No, because at the time of the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him), quite a similar law was in place in Makkah: every believer following the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) was submitted to the severest of punishments including death. Has this limited the proliferation of Islam? Absolutely not. In a few years, Islam was covering the whole of the Arabian Peninsula.



Steve wrote:

Quote:

Mohammed said "Let their be no compulsion in religion". What he obviously meant was that anyone is free to join

I am surprisingly happy to see that you quote from the Holy Qur'an. I thank you for doing it and encourage you Steve to read more from the Glorious Qur'an.
But just a few points regarding the verse you quoted, which is the verse number 256 of Surah Al-Bakarah:
1) It is God almighty who says it, Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) is only a Messenger of God.
2) Finish the verse: "Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error"
3) This specific verse means, and Allah knows best, that Islam is not imposed on people with force. People should be convinced, not obliged, of the Truth.
4) The case of apostasy is different. If someone leave the Islamic Nation, he/she is like someone making major treason to his country (what is the punishment for major treason in the countries all over the world?). For other reasons, pray reread the link I provided earlier.




Steve wrote:

Quote:

I want you to think very carefully about what I have said here Muslim1 and consider if Islam is compatible with modern liberal secular democracy. And if its not, which of the two systems is the more civilised?

The question is completely reversed. It is not for us to ask whether God-made system (Islam) is compatible with man-made systems, but rather to ask whether the so called "modern liberal secular democracy" is compatible with Islam.
At the you moment people will have created a muon or photon,or will have designed a super nova explosion, then they will have the right to question God's System. But since no one is able (and no one will be able) to create an electron or a galaxy, then no one has the right to question God's laws. Why do you, Steve, question God's System when at the same time you are completely dependant on the food/water He created and on the Oxygen He made?



And your Creator Allah knows best.

Adele2473 wrote:

where I come from, it is not obligated to wear it (hajib)....

In that case Adele you are breaking a specific command of Allah according to Muslim1, who says God orders you to wear it. Who is right?

It was also confirmed by an authentic source that prophet Muhammad said no one could be faithful until he loves me more than he loves his parents, his sons and all other people. Therefore, the Umma has reached a consensus that he who offends or degrades the messenger would be killed. Such offence is regarded as kufr (infidelity).

Sadly yes they do.

I've come across a muslim woman on these forums who proclaimed to love mohammed more than the lives of her own children. The same person advocated killing apostates from Islam.

Steve (as 41oo) wrote:

Sadly yes they do.

I've come across a muslim woman on these forums who proclaimed to love mohammed more than the lives of her own children. The same person advocated killing apostates from Islam.

They're animals. Pure and simple. Religion must be one of the most damaging forces on this planet. And islam is pure cancer. It leaves the stench of death on everything it touches.

Oh you who are young. Whoever amongst you who can afford to marry should marryLet the rich man (zu sa'atin) spend according to his meansBut the father of the child shall bear the cost of the mother's food and clothingAvoid the seven great destructive sins". The people enquired,"Oh Allah's Messenger! What are they?" He (Peace and blessings be upon him) said: "to associate partners along with Allah, to practice sorcery, to kill the life which Allah has forbidden, to eat up Riba (usury), to eat up an orphan's wealth, to retreat in front of the enemy at the time of fighting, and to accuse chaste and unaware women believers".

- With regards to the education you so passionately want for us - does that include the numerous books of classical English literature which glamorize adultery and fornication? Does it include the numerous daytime television programs which satisfy your society by offering them pathetic escapism from their mundane lives by showing facial makeovers, hot spas and dream homes? Is it the same education where mindless gibberish about soap operas, Hollywood gossip and movies are deemed the main topic of discussion? Does it include an education system which aims at destroying the Islamic values in turn for the self centered individualistic approach of Capitalism? Oh Laura, haven't you heard of Umm al Mu'mineen, Aisha (May Allah be pleased with her) who was a Mujthahida? Islam demands education and literacy but with our culture and values including Fiqh, Usul, Tilawa etc. Which will benefit or educate me and my children more - reading Laurence's 'Lady Chatterley's Lover' or Ibn Ishaq's 'Heyat ar Rasul'? I don't need to guess which one you've read. Indeed your quality 'education' has made your nation of cheerleading American youths to reject YOU as a role model in preference to the highly 'literate and conceptual' Britney Spears.

In Islam the pursuance of knowledge and understanding is an obligation, the Messenger of Allah (Peace and blessings be upon him) said: "Seeking knowledge is obligatory upon every Muslim."

- You spoke of domestic violence as if it was a serious disease spreading in the Middle East. How ironic coming from a woman whose society glorifies and glamorizes the beating, humiliation and rape of women through their various media forms of music and movies.

- Oh Laura! How dare you talk of the need for protection of women in the Middle East when it is an established fact that the rape rate in America is the highest in the world. What we do need protection from is your society's corrupt ideas and values which have created such an atmosphere of fear and evil that women in America are afraid to walk the streets alone at night. Even an elderly woman is afraid of answering the door, not just from a burglary but of the common possibility that she too will be gagged and gang raped by a product of your ideology. Will you deny that it's not common for a woman in America to be mugged or raped in a public place, such as the subway, and have her screams for help completely ignored?

In Islam a woman is deemed such an honor that her dignity is protected at all costs. Such is the magnitude of Islam's high view of women, that a Muslim man who dies defending his honor is given the blessing of being a martyr. The Messenger of Allah (Peace and blessings be upon him) said: "Whoever is killed defending his Ahal (kin) is a martyr

muslim1, "Umm Habibah" is comparing 2 different things. Like can you compare an orange with a dog? No, because one represents fruit and the other is an animal. Likewise, Islam is a religion and West is a culture. That in itself makes the writing baseless.

muslim1, "Umm Habibah" is comparing 2 different things. Like can you compare an orange with a dog? No, because one represents fruit and the other is an animal. Likewise, Islam is a religion and West is a culture. That in itself makes the writing baseless.

Muslim1 is a famous cut and paste'r. Any capacity for independent thought has been blocked by a lifetime of indoctrination. She's no more capable of thinking for herself than the orange you refer to. Unless of course it's deciding who should die. She seems to have a typical islamists ability to do that.

LoveMyFamily wrote:

muslim1, "Umm Habibah" is comparing 2 different things. Like can you compare an orange with a dog? No, because one represents fruit and the other is an animal. Likewise, Islam is a religion and West is a culture. That in itself makes the writing baseless.

Not it's not a faulty anaology; Islam is not only a religion, it is a way of life.

"This day I have perfected your Deen (Complete way of Life, Religion) for you, and completed my favour upon you, have chosen ISLAM as your Deen (way of life)." (Qur'an, Al-Ma'idah 5:3)

In fact, all the three religions are supposed to be guides on how a person should live their lives (laws of marriage, divorce, inheritance, etc.) but sadly some have been changed beyong their original intent.

Wilso wrote:

Muslim1 is a famous cut and paste'r. Any capacity for independent thought has been blocked by a lifetime of indoctrination. She's no more capable of thinking for herself than the orange you refer to. Unless of course it's deciding who should die. She seems to have a typical islamists ability to do that.

Why does everything for you have to be from the person's own narrow views? I guess you've never cited outside sources in your research papers before?

And rather than making worthless remarks and using ad hominems why don't you disprove the arguement at hand? Read the document she posted and it reveals the truth about the two differing lifestyles.

Raul-7 wrote:

LoveMyFamily wrote:

muslim1, "Umm Habibah" is comparing 2 different things. Like can you compare an orange with a dog? No, because one represents fruit and the other is an animal. Likewise, Islam is a religion and West is a culture. That in itself makes the writing baseless.

Not it's not a faulty anaology; Islam is not only a religion, it is a way of life.

"This day I have perfected your Deen (Complete way of Life, Religion) for you, and completed my favour upon you, have chosen ISLAM as your Deen (way of life)." (Qur'an, Al-Ma'idah 5:3)

In fact, all the three religions are supposed to be guides on how a person should live their lives (laws of marriage, divorce, inheritance, etc.) but sadly some have been changed beyong their original intent.

With the same argument I can say, christianity or Hinduism is also a way of life. It tells people how to lead their lives. I would have been glad to read a comparision where she said how Islam defends woman rights and Christianity and Hinduism doesn't. Or compare the western culture and the middle-east culture. This article was directed at slamming the west/ America. Now I don't mean to say what she said about the western culture is wrong. What I said was the comparision is faulty.

73. Istibra is a recommended act for men after urinating. Its object is to ensure that no more urine is left in the urethra.

79. It is Mustahab(preferable) that a person sitting for relieving himself, sits at a place where no one would see him, and enters the toilet with his left foot forward, and comes out with his right foot. It is also Mustahab to cover one's head, and to place one's weight on the left foot.