Thank you
xingu for your detailed response, I appreciate that.
xingu wrote:Human have been on this earth for over 100,000 years. Now your going to tell me that in the last 700 years God told some caravan raider sitting in a cave what women are suppose to wear? Ridiculous. Why would God demand women cover their faces?
First of all, Prophet Muhammad (Peace and blessings be upon him) received the Revelation from Almighty God 1400 years ago, not 700. It is always important, xingu, to gather sufficient knowledge about a thing before criticizing it.
Secondly, your description of the Prophet Muhammad (Peace and blessings be upon him) as a "caravan raider sitting in a cave" shows that you know very little about him. To have a better understanding of the life of our beloved Prophet, here is a link to his biography:
This Is Muhammad
Thirdly, you and I disagree on what women should wear. So what's the solution? We need a judge who knows better than both of us, someone who knows what benefits women as well as men. I suggest God almighty as a Judge. But, before expanding on my argument, can I ask you: what is your religion, do you believe in God?
xingu wrote:You claim women are so cherished that you will suppress their rights to protect them from men?
Women are indeed so cherished in Islam, but who said they have no rights? On the contrary, Islam gives women their full rights. Here are a few:
http://www.able2know.com/forums/a2k-post1495067.html&highlight=#1495067 (second answer)
xingu wrote: I guess what your saying is Muslim men are such trash, such vermin, that extraordinary circumstances must be taken to protect Muslim women from said Muslim trash. It appears your religion can't prevent your Muslim men from raping and abusing women so you have to confine them, escort them and hide their faces.
Pray reconsider what you wrote here. You know very well that Islam uplifted and dignified men. The words you used about Muslim men are far from from being realistic.
xingu wrote: In the Christian world it's unnecessary to stoop to such disgusting behavior to protect our women. Perhaps a sign of civilization and the emergence from backwardness is the freedom given to women. When Muhammad made his rules he was making them for a backward, barbaric tribal society that believed in paganism. Judging by the way Muslims treat their women they recognize that they have, as yet, not left that environment.
Prophet Muhammad (Peace and blessings be upon him) was not only sent to the pagans of Arabia, but to all the people including those of Christian faith. The Message of Prophet Muhammad (Peace and blessings be upon him) is for all human beings and is valid forever.
By the way xingu, do you know that a great deal of Christian women turn to Islam nowadays? Would you mind explaining why they left "civilization" into "backwardness" (to use your words)? Can you give me a reason why 30000 "civilized" swiss women converted to Islam:
http://www.swissinfo.org/eng/swissinfo.html?siteSect=107&sid=5416761
xingu wrote:Now I know what you will say; in the Christian world women are raped as well. True, they are, but in the Western world we allow women to drive, vote, move about unescorted and wear sexy clothing if they choose. It is the responsibility of the man to behave in a civilized fashion, show respect and behave honorably. This is something Muslim men are not capable of so the alternative is to suppress and restrict your women.
xingu, I can't accept such an unlimited, lawless freedom. If the woman (or man) is allowed to do whatever she wants, to wear anything... then we no longer live in a civilized human society but rather in a forest where there are no restrictions, no laws. And if a man considers the shameful clothes of some women as normal, then he is not really a man.
By wearing Hijab, the woman increases good ethics, develops the best morals and proliferates modesty in the Islamic society.
xingu wrote: With regards to Muslim men and rape;
It appears that one of the greatest fears Western nations have from Muslim immigrants is rape.
Rape is clearly one of the most horrendous crimes in Islam (does your "civilized" world consider rape as a crime?) and the punishment of it is very severe in the Noble
Shariaa. If a "Muslim" commits rape, then either he is not really a Muslim, or he is a Muslim but committing a
kabiira (very big sin) and must be punished.
xingu wrote: Sheik Yusaf al-Qaradawi is interesting. He's a famous and contaversial Muslim scholar that is considered to be a moderate conservative. However the moderate seculars are critical of some of his fatwas and public statements.
.
The difference amongst scholars in Islam proves that our religion gives us the freedom of thought, all Praise be to God (Allah in Arabic).
xingu wrote:It is not a religion for a civilized world.
Do you knows that Europe was living in darkness and backwardness when Islamic civilization came into Spain? Can you deny the fact that Islamic Andalusia was the torch that lightened all Europe (and therefore America centuries after) with science, knowledge and civilization?
xingu wrote: I would believe the mass media well before I would believe someone trying to defend his religious dogma.
That's a problem. You will not believe a religious person who gives you a logical reasoning just because he "defends his religious dogma", and rather believe a mass media which does not stop repeating lies and false propaganda? Your standards are quite strange.
xingu wrote: This is nonsense. If you want respect you should give honest answers. Living under the "lights of Shariaa" will offer the women of Iraq less freedom than they had under Saddam Hussein.
With all my due respect, I completely disagree. Living under the shade of the Glorious
Shariaa is the dream of every Muslima (Muslim girl/woman). That's why many women are and will be turning to Islam, the only religion that gives them full rights.
I noticed that you often use links to very biased websites against Islam. Yet you did not provide a single verse from the Holy Qur'an (the main Book of Islam) nor a Hadith from the teachings of Prophet Muhammad (Peace and blessings be upon him) to support your claims.
xingu wrote: Your answer justifying polygamy is nothing more than an endorsement of my response as to why you suppress women. Muslim men cannot control their sexual appetite so the only alternative was polygamy. Again you recognize that in the Muslim world only the men's appetite and desires are important, not the women's.
Let's be precise: your original question was: [but women can't have more than one husband? That's not equal.], it was about the prohibition of polyandry (woman having more than one husband) in Islam. As to why polygamy (man having more than one wife) is allowed, I can give you a detailed answer if you wish.
Islam declared men and women equal in rights and duties:
"O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you." [Glorious Qur'an 49:13]. The criterion that makes a person better than another is not sex, color, nationality, strength... It is righteousness.
xingu wrote: Lastly, let me say that in the Muslim world I'm sure there are many secular Muslim monogamist who feel about women's rights as do the Western countries.
Every Muslim, as long as he/she does not commit an act of disbelief, is my brother/sister. We may disagree on certain issues, but we are a single Umma (Nation). The last horrendous crime committed by some evil cartoonist against our beloved Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) showed this wonderful unity between Muslims all over the globe.
xingu wrote: They show acceptance and tolerance of other beliefs and ideologies.
As Muslims, we are convinced that Islam is the belief system chosen by God for His creatures. We will not stop, by God's grace, calling people for the Truth as best as we can.
xingu wrote: Unfortunately Muslim 1 you don't seem fit into that pattern. You display the ugly side of Islam. You support Shari'a and, I suppose, the execution of Muslims who leave their religion for another, such as Christianity. I suspect you also support the killing of anyone who criticizes or make fun of Muhammad. I suspect you believe the stoning of adulterer's is good and cutting off the hands of thieves is proper.
Islam teaches us to be honest and to say only the truth.
"O ye who believe! Fear Allah and be with those who are true (in word and deed). " [Glorious Qur'an 9:119] (verse surah tawba). That's why I'll be honest with you. Yes, I support the Noble
Shariaa. Yes, I support the execution of apostates (who persists in their disbelief). I do not accept making fun of the best of creatures Prophet Muhammad (Peace and blessings be upon him); When the best man ever is humiliated, then the whole of humanity is humiliated. Yes, there is no doubt that the stoning of adulterers and cutting off the hands of thieves are good things because I believe God Almighty commanded so. I do not pretend to represent Islam, what I described is what I personally think in all honesty.
xingu wrote:You, and the fanatics of Muslim religion, still live in the days of Muhammad, the days of the primitive barbaric tribal societies.
Indeed Prophet Muhammad (Peace and blessings be upon him) is the dearest person to our hearts. May God forgive our sins and help us follow the footsteps of our beloved Prophet so that we can meet him in the highest ranks of Paradise, Amen.
Thank you again xingu, and I look forward to continuing our interesting discussion.
And your Creator Allah knows best.