1
   

Rethinking Homosexuality

 
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 10:49 am
Violating any one person's civil rights is violating everyone's civil rights. This isn't a society of Borgs.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 10:50 am
(I guess I'm not astonished at how many pea-brained ideas people are still saddled down with).
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 10:51 am
Lightwizard,

Are you talking about me? I'm really kind of lost right now.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 10:53 am
No, just that's pretty much the point. Nobody is advocating that divorce actually be made illegal.

Quote:
if the government can legislate who can get married...can they legislate who can get 'un-married'? If they are 'trying' to save marraige (already at 50% divorce rate*) why don't they just prohibit divorces?


The point is that if the government is trying to "save" marriage -- and not just impose morality their on gay people -- there are simpler ways to go about it. Inethical ways, to be sure, but what's so ethical about prohibiting gay marriage?

*Actually that oft-repeated factoid is untrue. For college-educated people over 30, for example, it's something like 14%. For the general population it's still well uner 50% -- 30%, maybe? I have all the numbers somewhere, can find 'em if anyone's interested.
0 Replies
 
thunder runner32
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 11:12 am
Quote:
But if they prohibit divorce, wouldn't they be violating everyone's civil rights?


That's the point, by prohibiting homosexuals to get married, isn't that a violation of civil rights?
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 11:16 am
sozobe wrote:
Good point.

(real life, you haven't [as far as I've seen] responded to a few of my questions -- would you like me to re-post them?)


Hi Sozobe,

I've posted my position several times. I consider suicide to be an irrational act.

Your questions are based on 'someone else' being to blame for suicide. I don't buy that, and I think I've said so several times. I really don't know how else to explain it to you, but I've tried several times.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 11:24 am
That's okay, gay bashing (whether physical, vocally or writing) is an irrational act.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 11:31 am
What does your view on suicide have to do with homosexuality, real life?

~~~~~~

Let's head on back to the CDC, which records numbers. Doesn't assign any particular meaning or value to them - just provides the numbers.

Quote:
Groups At Risk

Males

Suicide is the eighth leading cause of death for all U.S. men (Anderson and Smith 2003).

Males are four times more likely to die from suicide than females (CDC 2004).

Suicide rates are highest among Whites (CDC 2004).

Of the 24,672 suicide deaths reported among men in 2001, 60% involved the use of a firearm (Anderson and Smith 2003).


gotta love the numbers when you're not a white man ... click

So, white men, and particularly white men with guns - commit suicide more than women, more than non-white men.

What does that mean?

~~~~~~~~~~

White men are more irrational than other Americans?

~~~~~~~~~

It's clearly the obvious result from your suicide is irrational position when attached to the numbers.

~~~~~~~

White men need to be supervised more than other Americans?

~~~~~~

Where you going to take the numbers?

~~~~~~

and while we're at it, since suicide = irrationality, you'd better not let people from the western states vote anymore. They're more likely to be irrational.

Quote:
Suicide rates are generally higher than the national average in the western states and lower in the eastern and midwestern states (CDC 1997).


<same source>
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 11:40 am
ehBeth lays out that section well.

The other thing you didn't answer is how you decide which things in the bible apply to modern life, and which don't. You've stated that you don't take everything literally -- that's cool. How do you decide which is which, though?
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 11:49 am
Very Happy Hope they are not eating lobster or not honoring their mother and father (I believe that would include in-laws) or there is a lighting rod on their church.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 11:51 am
ehBeth wrote:
What does your view on suicide have to do with homosexuality, real life?



Probably nothing, unless you happen to be concerned that suicide is one of several factors that appear to contribute to a significantly shorter life expectancy for homosexuals. I am concerned about it, since as I mentioned previously I have family, friends and co-workers that are homosexuals.

I have to say that I have been amazed during the conversations on this thread at the folks who claim to support and love homosexual people, but who appear to be in huge denial that this issue exists, or if they grudgingly admit it, they seem to want to blame someone else for it.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 11:52 am
I think this thread is trying to compete with the TV show "Lost."
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 11:59 am
sozobe wrote:
ehBeth lays out that section well.

The other thing you didn't answer is how you decide which things in the bible apply to modern life, and which don't. You've stated that you don't take everything literally -- that's cool. How do you decide which is which, though?


Well, it can be complicated, but it also can be easy.

In many cases, the context and familiarity with the entire Bible including the culture and customs of the day will help you know if it is literal or not.

Much the same as if you tell me "RL, you're killing me." We would all understand, since we are familiar with the phrase, that you are not speaking literally. Context and cultural familiarity help us to know that without having to pause and say 'is that literal?' We know it's not.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 12:08 pm
real life wrote:
sozobe wrote:
ehBeth lays out that section well.

The other thing you didn't answer is how you decide which things in the bible apply to modern life, and which don't. You've stated that you don't take everything literally -- that's cool. How do you decide which is which, though?


Well, it can be complicated, but it also can be easy.

In many cases, the context and familiarity with the entire Bible including the culture and customs of the day will help you know if it is literal or not.

Much the same as if you tell me "RL, you're killing me." We would all understand, since we are familiar with the phrase, that you are not speaking literally. Context and cultural familiarity help us to know that without having to pause and say 'is that literal?' We know it's not.


This is a specious and completely disingenuous response. If you really want to contend that there are portions of scripture which can be ignored on a contextual basis, you need to provide concrete examples, and not a crap analogy such as this. Leviticus calls for the death of homosexuals and of unruly children--do you claim that this does not apply because it refers to what was then a figure of speech?

This is one of the most pathetic examples of the myriad examples you provide in these fora of ducking the substantive and difficult questions.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 01:34 pm
real life wrote:
Well, it can be complicated, but it also can be easy.

In many cases, the context and familiarity with the entire Bible including the culture and customs of the day will help you know if it is literal or not.


Fantastic dodge.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 01:54 pm
sozobe wrote:
Exclamation

I know. Unbefreakinlievable Exclamation

This is now officially surreal.

a=b, however, a is ok, but b, well.... that's just not right. Exclamation Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

LW makes it very worthwhile. I'm so appreciative of your insights and tantalizing tidbits.

And, yes, gay bashing is an irrational act, based on the bashers' deep fear that someone will discover his own gay tendencies.

You can stop the bashing. We're a gay friendly group.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 02:37 pm
With some straight males I believe their homophobia might have something to do with fear of penetration.
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 02:41 pm
Freud theorized all children are born polymorphously perverse. Sounds fun doesn't it?
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 03:02 pm
ehBeth wrote:
real life wrote:
Well, it can be complicated, but it also can be easy.

In many cases, the context and familiarity with the entire Bible including the culture and customs of the day will help you know if it is literal or not.


Fantastic dodge.


Yepper, life abounds with the fantastic.

What is truly fantastic, ehBeth, is when folks seem to expect instant McAnswers regarding a book that was penned by over 40 different authors in 4 languages on 3 continents over a span of 1500+ years. Laughing

Even funnier is expecting a specific answer when supplying a vague question. Laughing

But the funniest is the 'My Neighbor' attitude. 'My neighbor is a Christian but he couldn't explain to my satisfaction XYZ about the Bible. Therefore I don't believe the Bible.' Laughing

Well, I hope you're havin' a good day. Cool
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 03:11 pm
Cool.

I'm having a grand day.

Maybe you'll want to try to answer Sozobe's question another day.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

700 Inconsistencies in the Bible - Discussion by onevoice
Why do we deliberately fool ourselves? - Discussion by coincidence
Spirituality - Question by Miller
Oneness vs. Trinity - Discussion by Arella Mae
give you chills - Discussion by Bartikus
Evidence for Evolution! - Discussion by Bartikus
Evidence of God! - Discussion by Bartikus
One World Order?! - Discussion by Bartikus
God loves us all....!? - Discussion by Bartikus
The Preambles to Our States - Discussion by Charli
 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 01/19/2025 at 03:18:16