Rethinking Homosexuality

We had us one of them fags right here in New Mexico, I think it was in Santa Fe. The boys showed him what we here in New Mexico think of them fags. When he gets out of the hospital I'm sure he will let other fags, like in california, know what we do to fags in New Mexico. Fortunately I'm pretty sure he was the only one here in New Mexico.

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Lash wrote:

Momma Angel wrote:
The only difference between us Lash is that I don't hate you (which I am assuming you do hate me by your posts). I still like you. So, we have differing views and all. That doesn't give me the right to ridicule you, call you names, point out where I think you are wrong, etc.

I mean, afterall Lash, are these not the things that you rail against so much about those that would treat homosexuals in such a manner?

Can't you understand that this type of behavior is absolutely no different than that? I have different views on some things than you do. So what? I should hate you because I don't agree with you, or vice versa?

You may rail against a homosexual bigot, who thinks gays are to blame for their suicides, especially if they lie like a rug, and pretend not to know what people are talking about when they call him on it.

<MOAN instantly feigns innocence or stupidity, because it can't possibly be real. Not this level.>

LW

Keep reading my answer. Stop asking the same question.

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dyslexia wrote:

We had us one of them fags right here in New Mexico.........

Light up a fag
Think it's a drag, but you're so glad
To be alive honey

Hey when this is all over
You'll be in clover
We'll go out and spend
All of your blue money......

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Momma Angel wrote:

I am definitely for Scenario B.

Cool.

Lightwizard wrote:

I would hope everyone would subscribe to Scenerio B.

Me, too.

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Gays, geeks, fat kids, etc are not simply just called names. They are threatened with bodily harm and are beaten up and these are the ones I believe are committing suicide at an alarming rate.
When a kid has to live every single day with this kind of fear, what's the point in going on.
When they are begging for help from the school staff & police and they do nothing, where else does a kid turn for help?
The bullies are continuing to run rampid in the schools while their victims continue to die, yet some folks say the victim has choices.

Try telling them that.

Anyone that hasn't lived through this extreme form of abuse can't possibly tell me that the kid who killed themselves felt that they had a choice.

Instead of commiting suicide, I quit school instead.

Great choice, eh!

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Didn't the Columbine murderers say they'd been bullied and called "faggot" and outcast for years?

Bullying, for any reason, should be stopped.

It's not handled in schools or by parents.

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Montana,

I am so sorry that you went through anything like this. No one in this world should have to suffer such torment. Hopefully, society today can educate our children better and help them cope with the world.

I can understand how someone can feel they don't have a choice. I am grateful that you made the one you did because you are here.

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Lash wrote:

Didn't the Columbine murderers say they'd been bullied and called "faggot" and outcast for years?

Bullying, for any reason, should be stopped.

It's not handled in schools or by parents.

Yes, they were bullied and I almost mentioned that in my last post.

My mom tried to help me by going and talking with the schools, but they didn't give a rats ass, so I am strictly focused on the schools because that's where it's happening.

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Momma Angel wrote:

Montana,

I am so sorry that you went through anything like this. No one in this world should have to suffer such torment. Hopefully, society today can educate our children better and help them cope with the world.

I can understand how someone can feel they don't have a choice. I am grateful that you made the one you did because you are here.

Momma
Thanks for your kind words.

The thing is that no one could have helped me cope with that. The bullies who made my life a living hell are the ones that need to be dealt with and not the victims. The victims are just minding their own business doing nothing wrong, so why should they have to be taught to cope.
The victims can get all the counselling in the world, but that won't stop the abuse so it's useless.
I went to see my school counsellors, but they were a joke and I left there more frustrated then when I walked in.
The reason why you don't understand why these kids feel like they don't have a choice is because you haven't gone through what they have.
I only know this because if you had, you would understand how very desperate they are.
When the schools refuse to protect their student, they are just as much at fault as the bully and I would personally like to know if it's ever going to change.

I'm also glad I'm still here, but I had to sacrifice my education to save my own life, so I'll always be bitter about that.

I know that taking your own life is extreme, but what some of these kids are living is not life. It's a living nightmare.

I hope I didn't sound harsh. I'm just very passionate about anything that consists of abuse.

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mystery girl wrote:

Lightwizard wrote:
I don't know how many people I've met in my lifetime who wanted to marry their close relatives -- they can't stand their close realtives. As for a goat, real time is working on that one.

And imagine the fallout when a relative-marriage doesn't work - the whole family would be ripped apart. Now with goats, you don't have these problems. Who cares if your ex's goat-buddies bleat at you when you walk by? What are they going to do, headbutt you to death? I'm thinking goat marriages might ought to go on the books.

I do have this cocker spaniel I'm very fond of ...

Anon

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Montana,

I do understand. But, unfortunately, the reality is there will always be people that discriminate and bully and hurt others for being different. It is wrong, very wrong. However, we cannot change them. They must change themselves. I think through education and awareness this issue might someday be less of an issue.

But, until that happens, we must prepare our children to live with life on life's own terms. It's not pretty. It's not fair. What these children go through I cannot completely imagine. So, we have to look to the parents to instill in their children the fact that they are okay whoever and whatever they are.

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Montana wrote:

I'm also glad I'm still here, but I had to sacrifice my education to save my own life, so I'll always be bitter about that.

I had to leave home when I was 15 and still in highschool due to an extraordinarily physically/emotionally abusive family. I can relate.

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Momma
We may not be able to change the monsters who jump out from bushes to attack kids on their way to school, but these bullies should be arrested and pulled out of the public schools.
Parents can try to comfort their kids to death, but that doesn't take away the constant fear and desperation these kids live with every time they are made to go to school.
It is the duty of schools and the police to protect these kids and they do nothing.
Any adult would be arrested and charged with assault & battery, but nothing happens to the kids under 18.
If there was a bully in college, they would be thrown out of school and arrested, so I want to know when the schools and police are going to do something to protect the kids.
It's not like kids have a choice in whether they go to school or not. It's the law and they have no choice in the matter.
In the mean time they walk the halls in school and pray that they can make it to their next class without being attacked.
I wouldn't even go to the bathroom in school because that was the easiest place for them to corner me.
I use to cut my last class every day so I could at least walk home without any fear and sometimes I'd run since usually I had to go to the bathroom real bad by then. Unfortunately, the last class I was cutting was my favorite class. Looks like I loose again.
I could go on and on and write a book about the torture these bastards put me through.

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Chumly wrote:

Montana wrote:
I'm also glad I'm still here, but I had to sacrifice my education to save my own life, so I'll always be bitter about that.
I had to leave home when I was 15 and still in highschool due to an extraordinarily physically/emotionally abusive family. I can relate.

I'm sorry to hear that Chumly. no one should have to live with abuse!

You truly have my sympathy. It's devistating when it's people you go to school with who are abusing you, but I can't even imagine if it had been my family.

(((((((((Hugs))))))))))

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real life wrote:

Hi Mystery,

Sorry. Yeah I did respond to your two points, but in a post to someone else who raised the same issues.

Briefly, the potential for birth defects could be considered a non-issue if they do not intend to have kids.

And, the 'power' or 'manipulation ' issue is inevitably in the eye of the beholder. So either you put each individual request before a judge (unacceptable) or you adopt an all-or-nothing standard one way or the other.

My position , just so nobody is unclear, is that siblings, parent-child, etc relationships should NOT be granted marriage privileges.

But my point is that those who argue that any 2 consenting adults should be allowed to marry are inconsistent if they exclude these others.

Mmmkay, so you were more going for poking holes in an advanced argument than prodding someone to articulate one. :-) In any event, as I said, law is necessarily usually a matter of broad strokes. So some people are unable or not desirous of having kids; shouldn't they be able to marry a sibling? Well, no. Just because some get screwed (npi) by a rule doesn't mean you chuck the rule. There are decent policy reasons - health, power dangers - to have a rule against it. And I don't believe power is subjective; it certainly is not when it's an adult who has perhaps both literal (legal, parental, guardian or just person-of-authority) power and the opportunity for exploiting that. See, an adult can walk around spouting that no one can take advantage of you without your permission; children are not - by and large - either emotionally or physically or legally capable of telling someone where to get off. That's why there is the additional danger inherent in allowing family members, as a general matter, marry.

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Montana wrote:

I'm sorry to hear that Chumly. no one should have to live with abuse!

You truly have my sympathy. It's devistating when it's people you go to school with who are abusing you, but I can't even imagine if it had been my family.

(((((((((Hugs))))))))))

In a phrase it was hell on earth as I imagine it must have been for you outside of home Sad

We lived in a big house with lots of forest, that was my real home and how I preserved my sanity(((((((((Hugs)))))))))) for you too baby. I spent a lot of time climbing trees, swimming in the river, building tree forts, etc. I also had good friends, some of whom had a tough home life also.

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Chumly
I'm glad you made it through it :-D

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Sibling marriage was at the core of Egyptian religion (Isis was the sister & wife of Osiris). When an Egyptian man married a woman who was not his sister by blood, he would formally adopt her as his "sister." Many such "adoption" papyri exist which indicate that this was a practice not unique to the Pharaohs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Pharaoh#Sibling_Marriage

What the Bible says about Incest
Genesis 19:32-36
Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father. And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose. Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father. And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose. Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father.
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/topics/lot.html

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Out of this whole long list of people (relatives) one is not supposed to have sexual relations with, in Leviticus 18, only the daughter is omitted. I have always wondered about this. You could say, well, it's inferred that someone should not commit incest with one's daughter. But why list all the other relatives one by one, and leave out the daughter??? It seems very suspect that the author of Leviticus would make a very detailed, explicit list, and yet still leave out the daughter.
http://www.probe.org/content/view/1126/47/

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Maybe not as puzzling as where Cain's wife came from? But one of the hundreds of ridiculous anomalies in the Bible, with just as many ridiculously contrived explanations.

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Rethinking Homosexuality

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