All this playing with pronouns is making me horny.
The only difference between us Lash is that I don't hate you (which I am assuming you do hate me by your posts). I still like you. So, we have differing views and all. That doesn't give me the right to ridicule you, call you names, point out where I think you are wrong, etc.
I mean, afterall Lash, are these not the things that you rail against so much about those that would treat homosexuals in such a manner?
Can't you understand that this type of behavior is absolutely no different than that? I have different views on some things than you do. So what? I should hate you because I don't agree with you, or vice versa?
Tell Extra Medium hi, mystery girl, and thank him for sending you our way while you're at it.
Love those little hooves.
I don't think she hates you -- I think she hates what you represent.
Chumly wrote:Christian activists have set up a 24 hour vigil around the Scape's home singing "Away in a Manger"
More news at 11:00!
And in a bizarre twist, witnesses report seeing this man carrying a wailing, bleating sack on his back - Baby F.? - late last night. Police speculate it may be Faunus' fiance (reputedly known in some circles by the mysterious initials "R.L.") come to claim his spouse and challenge anyone to tell him why he can't.
sozobe wrote:Tell Extra Medium hi, mystery girl, and thank him for sending you our way while you're at it.
Love those little hooves.
I sure will, Sozobe, and thanks!
Momma Angel wrote:The only difference between us Lash is that I don't hate you (which I am assuming you do hate me by your posts). I still like you. So, we have differing views and all. That doesn't give me the right to ridicule you, call you names, point out where I think you are wrong, etc.
I mean, afterall Lash, are these not the things that you rail against so much about those that would treat homosexuals in such a manner?
Can't you understand that this type of behavior is absolutely no different than that? I have different views on some things than you do. So what? I should hate you because I don't agree with you, or vice versa?
You may rail against a homosexual bigot, who thinks gays are to blame for their suicides, especially if they lie like a rug, and pretend not to know what people are talking about when they call him on it.
<MOAN instantly feigns innocence or stupidity, because it can't possibly be real. Not this level.>
LW
The statistics have been warped by demographics and age groups for suicides. Bringing in suicide is a non sequitur. It means absolutely nothing.
Lightwizard wrote:The statistics have been warped by demographics and age groups for suicides. Bringing in suicide is a non sequitur. It means absolutely nothing.
I think it is a huge issue. People are dying. Apparently you don't care or would like to avoid thinking about it.
Lightwizard wrote:The statistics have been warped by demographics and age groups for suicides. Bringing in suicide is a non sequitur. It means absolutely nothing.
I'm thinking of teens, LW.
MOAN-- You make no sense. You use the word
dodge when it has no application. Your posts are a word salad of unrelated analogies.
mystery girl wrote:real life wrote:
The problem with law (and marriage is sanctioned by law) is that it must be consistent.
If you are going to enshrine your 'two consenting adults' standard into law, then you must be consistent. But you are all for exceptions based on your personal perception of 'power' and so forth. So each case would have to be decided by a judge eventually.
RL, you haven't responded to either of the points I made. Which is not to say they are unassailable; nothing is. And your assertion tha "power is in the eye of the beholder" is merely that: an assertion. It's a false one. Adults have power over children, and adults living in a household with children or who have frequent contact with them in an intimate (meaning familial) way have much more sway and influence.
There is nothing wrong with drawing lines. Why here vs. there? You have to look at the macro picture. Law by its nature deals in broad strokes, so you have to look at what would likely affect most of the people. Two committed adults leads to stability both for a family and for society in general. A committed goat hasn't much to offer.
Hi Mystery,
Sorry. Yeah I did respond to your two points, but in a post to someone else who raised the same issues.
Briefly, the potential for birth defects could be considered a non-issue if they do not intend to have kids.
And, the 'power' or 'manipulation ' issue is inevitably in the eye of the beholder. So either you put each individual request before a judge (unacceptable) or you adopt an all-or-nothing standard one way or the other.
My position , just so nobody is unclear, is that siblings, parent-child, etc relationships should NOT be granted marriage privileges.
But my point is that those who argue that any 2 consenting adults should be allowed to marry are inconsistent if they exclude these others.
That's the most outlandish, ridiculous statement I've read in this forum in ages. It has bearing only in a thread about suicide, not in a thread on homosexuality. It's been introduced as a non sequitur to spoil the pot. Go back to hearing raising your goats. again, there are still sodomy laws on the books preventing marriages between close relatives, multiple wives and animals.
As mystery girl said, a line has to be drawn somewhere, yes. We're just arguing where that line should be drawn.
There is absolutely no reason why there can't simultaneously be laws against incest and laws allowing homosexual marriage. There are, right now. They are separate issues.
So we are back to, what is wrong with homosexuality? and what is wrong with gay marriage?
Lash,
Ok, let's look at it this way.
You seem to feel that those that treat homosexuals in a discriminatory manner would be responsible if the homosexual were to commit suicide, correct?
Now, I say that yes, people that discriminate against homosexuals in the manner we are speaking of have an affect upon that person's emotional condition and could definitely lead them into great despair. However, I say the final responsibility for the suicidal act would rest with the person committing suicide.
Now, let's just say that you know someone that you consider to be mentally unstable and you continually verbally attack, ridicule, demean, etc., that person no matter how many times they try to apologize to you or make amends you continue your abuse. Now, you do this knowing that you believe that person has mental problems. If that person commits suicide, does that make you responsible?
It's really an easy analogy Lash. It's the same thing. In both cases (homosexual or mentally unstable, pink, purple, black, white, etc.) if you knowingly treat another person differently for their differences, you are being discriminating. But, are you responsible for their suicide?
Teen suicide is indeed a problem, Lash, whatever the cause of the clinical depression. I think you'll find that withdrawal from drugs and alcohol in teens is one of the prime reasons for suicides. It does not matter if they are straight or gay. If they are being persecuted for being gay and that can be discerned as a contributing factor, I doubt that the statistics are all that revealing.
That wasn't the point, Momma Angel (and this can be directed at Lightwizard, too).
Here is the point:
In scenario A, a gay teen is isolated, ostracized, and oppressed in ways both subtle and overt. This gay teen is anguished, feels that he has no support, and ultimately commits suicide.
In scenario B, a gay teen is given support, shown tolerance and understanding, and after a period of adjustment matures into a happy, healthy person.
As a member of this gay teen's community, would you rather contribute to scenario A or scenario B?
I can see what you are getting at, Sozobe, with zero tolerance for intolerance because just one life lost is a tragedy. This is an aspect of growing up gay that has to be recognized. Most schools I believe do try to help, at least in my area. I had no problem growing up through high school and certainly not through college as the percentage of gays elevated considerably there. I was in the drama department, for one sure sign, and my teacher was gay.
I would hope everyone would subscribe to Scenerio B.
Sozobe,
Lash brought the point up about who would be responsible for the suicide and I was addressing it. I am definitely for Scenario B,
