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Life: Looking Back, Looking Forward

 
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jul, 2008 11:25 am
A) that decision was not all yours. Why do you grab all the responsibility for his personal decision to move?
B) living together is to some large extent a trial period at the beginning, and nothing to feel guilty about when a decision that it won't work becomes clear.
C) I see your point about the lease, but he did sign it.
I get a desire to help pay for it, though I'm not clear you ethically owe him. Arguably he could have rented a room or single by himself, though that wouldn't have enabled the living together 'trial period'.
D) I'm not sure of the housing situation there, thus not sure it is necessary to sign an extended lease. Still, he chose to do it, make these leaps.
E) Is there room for a roommate?
F) Past all that, I can still see wanting to help pay, even though I don't think I'd agree to "owing".
G) I think it's more important that you get out.
H) If you want to pay him back over time for some portion of the lease, then do, but I don't think it means you shouldn't leave domani.


The above is off the cuff opinion. I'll listen to reason..
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jul, 2008 11:29 am
Oh, that source is full of beeswax.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jul, 2008 11:34 am
Lash, he's an adult. He decided to move -- he didn't have to, and if he'd asked me I'd have said "no don't do it -- if you must, move to the same city but a separate apartment." But he didn't ask. (I may have said that anyway during the planning stage, I don't remember.)

At any rate, the point remains that it was his decision. It was a risky decision, which in fact didn't pan out. He took the risk, he needs to live with consequences. Nobody promised everlasting bliss, everlasting bliss did NOT happen, time to move on.

And I don't think anyone will actually be happier in the end if you do what you're currently considering to be the "right" thing (help him out financially). There will be further contact, there will be resentment, yadda yadda yadda.


Sorry it didn't work out, and for the tension convention.


I've been blunt throughout (while occasionally regretting it) so I'll say outright -- be careful about jumping out of the frying pan (Italian) and into the fire (NY). From this whole saga, I really think you need some focused, centering you time -- like a decent chunk -- before embarking on the next relationship. Recreation, whatever, but a Real Relationship? Wait.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jul, 2008 11:35 am
(Started typing before osso showed up, I see we're thinking along similar lines.)
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jul, 2008 11:45 am
ossobuco wrote:
A) that decision was not all yours. Why do you grab all the responsibility for his personal decision to move?
Thanks. Several people (who I thought had a bias toward me) have said this. I DO tend to assume all the responsibility for the move.
B) living together is to some large extent a trial period at the beginning, and nothing to feel guilty about when a decision that it won't work becomes clear.
I've heard this, too. Thank you. THIS and your first point are making mincemeat of me.
C) I see your point about the lease, but he did sign it.
I get a desire to help pay for it, though I'm not clear you ethically owe him. Arguably he could have rented a room or single by himself, though that wouldn't have enabled the living together 'trial period'.
D) I'm not sure of the housing situation there, thus not sure it is necessary to sign an extended lease. Still, he chose to do it, make these leaps.
E) Is there room for a roommate?
F) Past all that, I can still see wanting to help pay, even though I don't think I'd agree to "owing".
G) I think it's more important that you get out.
H) If you want to pay him back over time for some portion of the lease, then do, but I don't think it means you shouldn't leave domani.


The above is off the cuff opinion. I'll listen to reason..

Thanks, osso. Your opinions align with others from people I consider reasonable. I'm so mad at myself for possibly paying rent on a place where I'm not living.

I wish there was room for a roommate! That would solve it. Thanks for your input. I'll be figuring out what to do soon.

Yeah--re: the source. It was a goofy article, but I wanted people to know where they could find it anyway.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jul, 2008 11:46 am
I see Soz' point about not extending it into a continuing contact, adding that would be via money you don't have (and didn't in the first place, as I remember).
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jul, 2008 12:06 pm
lash wrote:
I'd've shived him
I'm pretty sure you meant "you'd shank him"
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jul, 2008 12:09 pm
Leases can often be cheaper to break, if you know what I mean. You two are done. From what you describe, it seems implausible that he doesn't know this. It takes two to tango and all that, so both of you move, split the lease breaking penalty, and be done with it. If it starts to give you heartburn, just imagine how much a divorce costs. He may decide to go back to NV or he may decide to stay but those are his decisions as was the decision to move east.

You're doing alright, Lash.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  2  
Reply Thu 3 Jul, 2008 12:27 pm
sozobe wrote:
Lash, he's an adult. He decided to move -- he didn't have to, and if he'd asked me I'd have said "no don't do it -- if you must, move to the same city but a separate apartment." But he didn't ask. (I may have said that anyway during the planning stage, I don't remember.)

At any rate, the point remains that it was his decision. It was a risky decision, which in fact didn't pan out. He took the risk, he needs to live with consequences. Nobody promised everlasting bliss, everlasting bliss did NOT happen, time to move on.

And I don't think anyone will actually be happier in the end if you do what you're currently considering to be the "right" thing (help him out financially). There will be further contact, there will be resentment, yadda yadda yadda.


Sorry it didn't work out, and for the tension convention.


I've been blunt throughout (while occasionally regretting it) so I'll say outright -- be careful about jumping out of the frying pan (Italian) and into the fire (NY). From this whole saga, I really think you need some focused, centering you time -- like a decent chunk -- before embarking on the next relationship. Recreation, whatever, but a Real Relationship? Wait.

This has been quite an education about Jumping, soz.... Confused ...and thanks for your opinion. Very Happy I like blunt when it's well-intentioned--and I always feel that yours is. I'm not sure what I want in a relationship AT ALL now, and I'm in no hurry to start one. NY and I have been really good friends--talking from 1-4 times a week. There's NO reason to change anything with him. It's very satisfactory as it is for now (but considering my nuttiness, I understand why you'd want to draw me a picture.... Embarrassed )
There are guys who ask me out locally---I have absolutely no attraction to them--but I will have places to go and things to do without any real emotional/financial investment.

NY and I will probably eventually meet--but I think the one major difference is: I used to be "looking" for someone to spend the rest of my life with--like throwing some pre-conceived template over men who expressed interest in me and grading them. How incredibly old-fashioned I am still! I didn't get the difference then, but I definitely get it now. Frankly, I'm glad my "mistake" was with the Italian. He (good qualities notwithstanding) is not the right man for me. But, I have to consider now that I may never marry again--I may never cohabitate again. I need to drift over time into what and who is right for me, not choreograph it under a deadline.

I think I remember ehBeth trying to get me to that point quite a while back--but I didn't get it. Laughing

Thanks, Soz and osso! So much.

Dys--

Of course, I'd've shanked him..."

Freeduck--

Thank you so much. It's suprising how much a good word can do for you. I have renewed compassion for people who are facing the end of a marriage! This seems like a walk in the park by comparison.

"cheaper to break" Freeduck. (nods)
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jul, 2008 12:33 pm
That all sounds really good, Lash!

If this relationship is what helped get you to that point, then it was worth it (IMO).
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jul, 2008 12:42 pm
laughing---You see what no sex for a few years can do to a person??

Laughing

I think I'll be ok now...
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jul, 2008 12:52 pm
Lash wrote:
I hope our non-A2K attempt at correspondence goes better than that last one...hahaha. (Not because of content, but not being able to get through filters...)
You should have mail. I have to go to work...will be back tomorrow.

I should get your phone number!
(the crowd is immediately silent)

There's something wickedly funny about this line...
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Izzie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jul, 2008 04:46 pm
Lash wrote:
OK, ethical question:

NOPE - SORRY HUN - ETHICAL CAN'T REALLY BE DONE - not with an emotional relationship (my opinion of course) - if we lived in an ideal world, yep, no problem, we could all do right by one another and live in peace and harmony - uh huh - we don't live in an ideal world (tho I personally still wait for it every day! Rolling Eyes )

Your boyfriend has crossed the country, given up everything to be with you. You have run into rather serious problems---and discussed them in depth a few times over the past four months.

This was his choice Lash - he has his own mind and he believed, as did you, that this was worth the risk. Risk nothing, risk it all! He made the choice - you didn't force him... he chose. Now, you BOTH know this will not work out - not in this present time anyway - so you have to lessen the risk now of the impact the initial risk made.

It's just not going to work, and now instead of feeling guilty and sad about it--and sorry for him--you are just increasingly uncomfortable in your own home--existing in a mode of near revulsion for him--and guilt free confronting the knowledge that the two of you will not be together permanently.

You BOTH know it - it's not just you - a realtionship takes two - it takes two to make and two to break. Living an uncomfortable life... well, life is too short isn't it hun. Not only for you - but for him too. When it's done, it's done. You have to make the best of "ending it" and think a day at a time.... those days added together start to make the future. Your future starts tomorrow, and the day after tomorrow, and..... so forth. Living in the past - which is where the relationship is - is no good for either of you. Or your kids if they are saying you need to be out.

You cannot think of the financial responsibility per se - you have to think of your emotional responsibility to yourself. If you stay - the resentment will build and build ... it's not worth it. Not when you know the end result. Again, in an ideal world... but...

However:
Facts to chunk in your hopper:

If I move out now, I leave him saddled with a lease he may not be able to manage.

He will manage - so will you. He is getting a raise at work. Your responsibility is to you and the kids. He's a big boy, making big decisions to move across country, change jobs etc etc.... he will find a way, as will you.

Even though my name isn't on the lease, I feel morally responsible to help him through the year lease.

Ideal world. Of course you don't wish him to struggle or suffer financially - neither of you have done "harm" to one another - and it would be great if you knew that financially he would be good... but it's one, or the other.

There is no way in hell I can afford to move out, maintain an apt and help him with the lease.

Correct - if your life is to move forward you need to have a place on your own...

He knows no one here but me (and the assembly of clods at his work).

He has been there 4 months - he needs to start making his own friends - living with someone and having no other friendships, other than work relationships, is not healthy for most couples. There are some who are probably cool with only ever being with their "partner" and no other... but that puts an awful lot of pressure on any relationship. I know I don't know you - but you sound pretty outgoing.... bordering on the outrageous I would imagine at a good party - which is HAPPY! So you need to do your thing, and he needs to not be a hermit (I am quite hermit-ish so I know how hard that can be.... but he HAS to get his own life - and not be dependent on your life, in order for him to be "living".)

He's about to get a significant raise. (Does this release me from my moral responsibility to help him with his lease?) I don't think so....I'm thinking about making arrangments to move when he gets his raise, but I'll think I've done something shitty that people will be justified in saying what a **** I am. In other words, I will, in fact, be a ****.

It matters not one iota what the rest of the world thinks when your emotional well-being is actually all that is important. Your friends who know you will support you, whether they believe you are "right" or "wrong" - with the 'ole heartstrings - "right or wrong" again, are all about compromise. When it gets to who is right all the time and who is wrong all the time - the relationship is done. Compromise has to be there.

He's making me insane. He is the cheapest man I've ever known. (There...I SAID it.)

Good for you - the little things all add up and then they become a mountain of little things which you just can't get past...

I am raked over the coals when I turn on the air conditioner in 90 degree weather. He criticises my daughter. (OMG, if I'd had flatware with me last night when he said that, I'd've shived him.) He has absolutely criticised and whined away all my tenderness toward him. Oy Jeez, he's so negative!!

You are protective, possibly over-protective of your kids and hot and bothered to boot. Isn't that what parents do - we are protective. If you felt emotionally attached to him you would possibly be considering what he says - but you are already emotionally detatched - you have been for a while. Whatever he says about the kids... well, it's another of those add on the mountain things...

I sit uptown reading for hours to avoid going home. I slept in the floor last night to avoid touching (or perhaps murdering) him. <--kidding for those who think I really AM insane. I just can't stand to be around him. He has me infuriated. I guess if anyone spoke critically of my children in any other situation, I'd never speak to them again. I'd just cross them out of existence in my life---but when the guy is LIVING with you...

It's not a home is it.... it's a place where you stay, on the floor at times. Home is where you feel safe, secure, comfortable. You need to find yourself a home hun, and find some peace there.

But, a part of me (the old Baptist part?) thinks a year with this guy is what I deserve for my hasty, selfish decision to do this in the first place...and a year in Purgatory may be cleansing....I could use the time to improve my horrible interpersonal skills, while saving money (he and I sharing rent/utilities IS cost effective...)

No, No and no - but that's just my opinion (she says as she sits here on her own coz I wouldn't compromise my life - not the best person to be advising a?) :wink:

My other friends and the children want me out NOW. They act as though considering staying is a very bad idea.

Agreeing with ^^^^^^^^^ up there! But the only person's whose opinion matters - is yours. The only choice ... is yours. Selfish... nope, I don't think so. Survival, life - yep and yep

My ethical code demands that I pay my portion of rent and utilities for the year no matter what his/my/our situation. I'm afraid the only way I can do that is to live with him---and frankly, I'm worried that our relationship may spiral into something worse during a year of undefined limbo roles...

Not a good plan in my opinion.

Re: my ethical code. NY says (in his gentle way) that it is screwing up my life. It has led me through some ill-advised plot twists and made me hang on through other miserable situations.

Don't know what NY is all about... so will steer clear of any thoughts there.

I wonder if we could be "roommates" for a year... Does that sound like a rational solution?...or even more nutty than the decision to move in in the first place?


Nope, that sounds irrational, guilty and no solution. Not meant in any way nasty - coz you can't hear my voice, just blue typeface without any emotion behind it.... but, I have a chuckle to my voice when I say that - you want to do the right thing - but I don't think that's a solution. I think life will dissolve if you keep going the way it is. You need to take care of you and yours - first and foremost. You aren't being mean, you aren't being nasty - it's just the way it is.

It's good to see you still have laughter in your voice Lash - keep it there - it's the only way to go.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jul, 2008 04:58 pm
Time to put the focus on looking forward hmmm?

cuz it's not time for this

http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/pha0033l.jpg

lovely
brilliant
energizing
kinda nutty

woman

~~~

He's a grown man. He made a decision, or a series of decisions. He has to live with the consequences.

It sounds like it is red pyjama/blue pyjama time.

"It's time for me to move out. Would you like to break the lease, or will you be staying here on your own?"
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Izzie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jul, 2008 05:02 pm
(Laughing now why didn't I just say that instead of rambling on for ages.... so laughing - love ya EBGirl!)
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jul, 2008 05:05 pm
(we know Lash can't hear me Laughing I love to read your verra accessible rambles)
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Joeblow
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jul, 2008 06:20 pm
My opinion is that Beth's nailed it.

Soz is a smart straight shooter

Osso's wise

Izzie's right

Freeduck makes sense

AND

Dys knows stuff.
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jul, 2008 07:19 pm
Thanks so much everybody!!!

It appears that everyone thinks the same thing--and since my own opinion is all wavery when it comes to emotional matters, I think I should defer to the sane.

Practicing: "It is time for me to move. Would you like to break the lease or will you be staying here on your own?"

Hugs EVERYBODY!!! Very Happy

I have to also practice HEARING EHBETH.
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jul, 2008 07:26 pm
c'mon

my accent's not as cute as yours, but it's not that bad

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Arts/Arts_/site_furniture/2007/08/17/noisepollution460.jpg
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jul, 2008 07:39 pm
You had to think about "cute," dint ya?
Laughing
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