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Is homosexuality a bad thing?

 
 
aperson
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 May, 2006 07:30 pm
From an evolutionary point of view, homosexuality is a step backwards.

How did homosexuality come to be?
0 Replies
 
Acquiunk
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 May, 2006 09:05 pm
Your first problem is the assumption that evolution incorporates "progress". It does not. Evolution is simple the way life through the process of natural selection response to the demands of its environment. If homosexuality has a genetic link (and that is unclear) and homosexual behavior were an adaptive advantage for individuals of a species, the population of that species would come over a number of generations to exhibit a perponderance of individuals engaging in homosexual behavior. There is no "progress" or as you put it steps forward or backwards.

If homosexuality is genetically linked, current research suggests that it may by carried by the x chromosome.
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Kara
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 May, 2006 09:40 pm
Perhaps there is an advantage within the group if one or another of its members do not strive to reproduce. This could not be an isolated behavior, or it would die out because the genes would not be passed on. This behavior must serve the group.
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Acquiunk
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 May, 2006 09:55 pm
Genes do not serve the group either, they are just there. They survive because the confer an advantage of an individual or are neutral in their effect and are passed on as part of the general genetic inheritance of an individual. Homosexuality does not mean that an individual can not reproduce. We are a bio-cultural species and there may, and often are, very good cultural/social reason for an individual to have descendants, despite their sexual preference. It was not until very recently that societies took the burden of caring for the elderly from the family and made it a public responsiblity. In most traditional societies it was a persons children and grand children who had the responsiblity for caring for them in their old age.
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Kara
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 May, 2006 10:06 pm
Quote:
Homosexuality does not mean that an individual can not reproduce.


Well, yes. And his or her tendencies would come up again in the next generation.
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RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 May, 2006 12:05 pm
aperson wrote:
From an evolutionary point of view, homosexuality is a step backwards.

How did homosexuality come to be?


Why is it not a step ahead?

Are you saying there was a time when we were all homosexuals?
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 May, 2006 12:06 pm
Kara wrote:
Perhaps there is an advantage within the group if one or another of its members do not strive to reproduce. This could not be an isolated behavior, or it would die out because the genes would not be passed on. This behavior must serve the group.


I agree...
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 May, 2006 12:30 pm
Acquiunk wrote:
Genes do not serve the group either, they are just there. They survive because the confer an advantage of an individual or are neutral in their effect and are passed on as part of the general genetic inheritance of an individual. Homosexuality does not mean that an individual can not reproduce. We are a bio-cultural species and there may, and often are, very good cultural/social reason for an individual to have descendants, despite their sexual preference. It was not until very recently that societies took the burden of caring for the elderly from the family and made it a public responsiblity. In most traditional societies it was a persons children and grand children who had the responsiblity for caring for them in their old age.


Genes do serve the group, the group is the one who through environmental necessity triggered the genes (powers that be) to arrange in an adaptive function.

Scientists believe there is a gene that causes two individuals of the same sex to become attracted. Is that not nature telling us that humans are "controlled" not only by their own thoughts but by a chemical response? Humans are united in diversity? The fact that both sexes can be homosexual only cements it's place in human nature.

...or even a spiritual calling that transcends nature.

Love is subject to which code of ethics one may compare it to...

People interpret/warp the standard to fit their own code... This is where intolerance and prejudice becomes hatred.

There is this diversity in all things.

Though we are all created equal, we are made and formed "uniquely" by the same creator.
0 Replies
 
Acquiunk
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 May, 2006 01:10 pm
RexRed wrote:
Genes do serve the group, the group is the one who through environmental necessity triggered the genes (powers that be) to arrange in an adaptive function.


I am at a loss as to what you are attempting to say here. Genes do nothing more than create a phenotype (an individual) A group with similar phenotypes is simply the result of a collection of individual expressions in which that particular phenotype offered an advantage, nothing more. Groups do not "trigger " genes and I know of no genetic mechanism where that could occur.

RexRed wrote:
Scientists believe there is a gene that causes two individuals of the same sex to become attracted. Is that not nature telling us that humans are "controlled" not only by their own thoughts but by a chemical response?


Humans are not "control" by their genes. It is simplistic to assume there is a direct link between genes and individual behavior. This is in part because we have only a very rudimentary understanding of how genes function, on any level. Secondly because culture intervenes. Our behavior is learned not inherited. While it is possible that the genetic makeup of an individual may favor certain kinds behavior, for example some people are better fit to be long distance runners than others, it does not mean that those who are not, can not try.

In the broader sense this has nothing to do with homosexuality. Homosexuality is an expression of human desire and the value judgments placed on it are a cultural not a biological issue.
0 Replies
 
aperson
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 May, 2006 04:23 pm
RexRed wrote:
aperson wrote:
From an evolutionary point of view, homosexuality is a step backwards.

How did homosexuality come to be?


Why is it not a step ahead?

Are you saying there was a time when we were all homosexuals?


Right I don't know how to word this but try to follow along.

What I meant was, since evolution makes it that the "fittest" individual survives and passes on its traits to its offspring, homosexuality wouldn't originally have been able to be passed on down the generations, so why are so many people homosexuals today?
0 Replies
 
Kara
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 May, 2006 06:28 pm
Quote:
Our behavior is learned not inherited.


Acquiunk, I disagree with you here. We do inherit many parts of our behavior. I believe that our degree of sexuality -- where we lie on the spectrum of sexuality from super-male to super-female -- is inherent. This is observable. I know people who lie all along this spectrum, men and women. There are many other things we inherit, from tics, to patterns of thinking, to tendencies and likings. This has been shown in twin studies. (From twins separated at birth and studied later.)

If a person lies toward the middle of the sexual spectrum and ends up thinking him or herself gay, how can one propound that this is a lifestyle choice? Such "decisions" are influenced by culture, of course. Many gay-leaning men and women marry and have children, as a cover, or as a way to have a normal life even if they don't feel normal in those roles. Brokeback is only the most recent and more widely publicized example of such stories.
0 Replies
 
Acquiunk
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 May, 2006 07:05 pm
Kara, I am an anthropologist. If many parts of our behavior were inherited we would see a much narrower range of human behavior, world wide, than is the case. Human behavior is very diverse. What makes us unique among all the species on this planet is culture, this learned behavior. That is a minimal and simplistic definition of culture, it is much more complex and it permeates every part of our being and that includes our sexuality. We are what is called a bio-cultural species, the only one at present. Therefore what might be considered "supersexuality" in your culture (learned behavior) might be expressed very differently in another culture. These expression could range from nonexistent to what might be considered a mental illness. We are that diverse.

Sexual behavior is reproductive behavior, and as we are a bio-cultural species it logically can be assumed to have a biological component. But how that is expressed is informed by culture, not the other way around. Homosexuality can be considered a variant of reproductive behavior and there is a lot of very interesting research going on exploring the interface between that behavior and our biology. Nothing conclusive has resulted to date but there is a lot more work to be done. What is at issue is the value judgements place on homosexuality. Many people, and not just homosexuals, are tired of the negative judgements and stereotypes some culture, especially western culture,and are, quite rightly, demanding change,
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 May, 2006 08:05 pm
bm
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 May, 2006 08:47 pm
pangheping wrote:
Kara wrote:
I hope RexRed answers that question.

pang, homosexuality does not violate human biological nature. It is part of it. Homosexuals must belong on the spectrum of human sexuality. There is a natural role for these human beings in the biological world order, and we see such sexually ambiguous beings in other species.


What 's the purpose of human sexuality?I think it is first to reproduce,and the second just for fun or any other things.


Human sexuality is first to love, then to reproduce...
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 May, 2006 11:23 pm
Acquiunk wrote:
Kara, I am an anthropologist. If many parts of our behavior were inherited we would see a much narrower range of human behavior, world wide, than is the case. Human behavior is very diverse. What makes us unique among all the species on this planet is culture, this learned behavior. That is a minimal and simplistic definition of culture, it is much more complex and it permeates every part of our being and that includes our sexuality. We are what is called a bio-cultural species, the only one at present. Therefore what might be considered "supersexuality" in your culture (learned behavior) might be expressed very differently in another culture. These expression could range from nonexistent to what might be considered a mental illness. We are that diverse.

Sexual behavior is reproductive behavior, and as we are a bio-cultural species it logically can be assumed to have a biological component. But how that is expressed is informed by culture, not the other way around. Homosexuality can be considered a variant of reproductive behavior and there is a lot of very interesting research going on exploring the interface between that behavior and our biology. Nothing conclusive has resulted to date but there is a lot more work to be done. What is at issue is the value judgements place on homosexuality. Many people, and not just homosexuals, are tired of the negative judgements and stereotypes some culture, especially western culture,and are, quite rightly, demanding change,
To you as an anthropologist divining the subtleties and distilling them into overt differentiations over relatively shorter time periods sure, but would a more subjective alien intelligence looking at the last five thousand years in its entirety confirm your viewpoints of such dramatic underlying diversity, or would said more subjective long term overall viewpoint tend to see a more cohesive consistent non-varying whole?

I would suggest that the aliens in question would tend to see the same patterns emerging over and over again, and would not see such the proclivity of the truly differentiated and solely learned behavior you suggest, despite the differentiations as interpreted by some anthropologists (for example).
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 May, 2006 12:15 am
Boink
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 May, 2006 12:44 am
Boink Boink.
0 Replies
 
pangheping
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 May, 2006 01:52 am
What 's the purpose of human sexuality?I think it is first to reproduce,and the second just for fun or any other things.[/quote]

Human sexuality is first to love, then to reproduce...[/quote]

What's the purpose of love?I think it is for reproduction that sexual love existed after all.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 May, 2006 11:43 am
pangheping wrote:
What 's the purpose of human sexuality?I think it is first to reproduce,and the second just for fun or any other things.


Human sexuality is first to love, then to reproduce...
Quote:


What's the purpose of love?I think it is for reproduction that sexual love existed after all.


No, the purpose of love is love alone... The moment you add children then love may often exist out of necessity... Technically that is not love...

Adam and Eve were not initially intended to have offspring and offspring ultimately came out of the original sin... The first child they gave birth to was the worlds first murderer...
0 Replies
 
RaceDriver205
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 May, 2006 06:49 am
Quote:
No, the purpose of love is love alone

I wouldn't agree rex. Love is much more effective at producing offspring.
0 Replies
 
 

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