A first(?) thread on 2008: McCain,Giuliani & the Republicans

DAP?

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oe, you need to understand that some of the people running the Democrat Party are a bunch of hippies and malcontents of the late 60's that have never really gotten over their college pot smoking days, free love, and hating Richard Nixon, America, and capitalism. But they did decide to put suits and ties on, and one of them even became president, named Bill Clinton. They are not done with their vision of changing the America they hated into something else they think they might like.

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So this is a little off topic, in the sense that it is not about the presidential race directly, but...
Senator John Warner of Virginia announced today from the steps of the Rotunda at UVA (three blocks from my store) that he would not seek re-election in 2008. Warner, the now 80 year old moderate Republican, gave a rather elegant speech, talking about his long service in the Senate, his time as Sec of the Navy, and I, believe, his time as a serviceman, but that it was time to move aside so that other people could serve.
John Warner was one of the few Republicans I, a devout liberal Democrat, could consistently vote for. I disagreed with some of his votes, but I could always count on him to give a thoughtful hearing to both sides of any issue.
That got him in trouble with a lot of social conservatives and, most recently with his notion that we must begin withdrawing troops from Iraq, with the Bush administration.

(I should disclose that he is also an artist and came into my store a couple of times, accompanied only by his driver).

The race to replace him as Senator should be raucous. Former Repub Gov Jim Gilmore (briefly in the presidential race) is probably the leader, but there are a couple of other folks with regional name recognition.

Mark Warner, the most recent Dem Gov (no relation to John) is certainly interested and the nomination is his for the asking. He, too, was considering a bid for the presidential nod, but abruptly dropped out. There are rumors of a skeleton in his closet somewhere.

Virginia, for all of my life, has been a Repub state, but that has changed rapidly in the last decade. The suburbs of D.C. are growing, Richmond with its large black population is coming back, and retirees from everywhere are moving to places like C'ville.

And, and this might be a bit of a stretch, I think there is a bit of an unhappiness in the strongly conservative southside of Virginia. They are the ones who keep sending their kids to fight in a war against terrorism; a threat that doesn't directly affect them. In the meantime, jobs keep disappearing.

Johnboy reporting from Virginia

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Freddy is officially announcing Sept. 6 so he'll be the buzz for weeks to come on the R side. Watch these other guys fade some, though one can hardly see them now.

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rjb, If I remember correctly, there are several senior GOP congressmen who will not seek another term. Those slots will probably be filled by democrats, and the GOP is concerned that as a minority party, they won't have any influence for the foreseeable future. Many who will remain won't be happy campers.

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okie wrote:

oe, you need to understand that some of the people running the Democrat Party are a bunch of hippies and malcontents of the late 60's that have never really gotten over their college pot smoking days, free love, and hating Richard Nixon, America, and capitalism. But they did decide to put suits and ties on, and one of them even became president, named Bill Clinton. They are not done with their vision of changing the America they hated into something else they think they might like.

It's a tough choice...pot smokers or sodomists.

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GOP: Craig plans to resign from Senate

By JOHN MILLER and MATTHEW DALY, Associated Press Writers
42 minutes ago

BOISE, Idaho - Idaho Republican Sen. Larry Craig's decision to quit spares his party the embarrassment of an indefinitely prolonged scandal following his arrest during a sex sting in a Minneapolis airport bathroom.

Craig will announce his resignation, effective Sept. 30, at a news conference in Boise Saturday morning, GOP officials in Idaho and Washington told The Associated Press, speaking on condition of anonymity.

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http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20070904/capt.5ca0cf5624ad4cb59c18a7e2ebe0f469.brownback_2008__con102.jpg

What happens when you go to NH and no one cares. You think Brownback will get the message?

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xingu, It seems his expectations were small to begin with; the hall looks like itprobably holds no more than a few hundred. When a candidate starts off thinking small...

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xingu wrote:

What happens when you go to NH and no one cares. You think Brownback will get the message?

Ouch!!

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The poor guy probably went home and cried.

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Josh Patashnik on TNR praises the "philosophical diversity" of the Republican field:

Quote:

Far and away the best part of last night's [..] GOP debate was [the] exchange between Mike Huckabee and Ron Paul on the merits of staying in Iraq. It's easy [..] to condemn the format of these debates for lending itself to vapid sound-byte responses, but this was a substantive exchange between two fairly eloquent men on the central foreign-policy question the country faces. [..] Most observers seem to agree that the Democratic field [..] is stronger than the Republican field this year, but one thing the Republican field has going for it is philosophical diversity: it's unlikely you'd see this level of overt disagreement over basic principles at a Democratic debate.

The video for that exchange is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9sA5FQfE1E - and I agree. With the reservation that of course, if Ron Paul hadnt been there, much of this 'diversity' praise would immediately have been moot.

Here's two excerpts that pretty much summarize it:

Huckabee: "When I was a little kid, if I went into a store with my mother, she had a simple rule for me. If I pick something off the shelf of the store, and I broke it, I bought it. I learned, I dont pick something off the shelf I cant afford to buy. Well, what we did in Iraq, we essentially broke it. It's our responsibility to do the best we can to try to fix it"

Ron Paul: "We have lost over 5,000 Americans over there .. How many more you want to lose, how long are we going to be there, what are we going to have to pay to save face. That's all we are doing, is saving face, it's time we came home!"

I thought the exchange was striking and telling. For one because of the stark contrast between two valid, even moral positions. But secondly because - let this sink in for a minute - even the side passionately defending the mission in Iraq explicitly admits that "what we did in Iraq, we essentially broke it." That's one hell of a sign of just how far the debate has moved since the days of cakewalks, last throes and missions accomplished. Hell, a liberal here would have been ridiculed and excoriated by the resident A2K conservatives for simply using Huckabee's words - and would perhaps even still now.

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nimh, Thanks for digging out those nuggets; and your explanations are first rate. Their admission that "we broke it" was spoken by a republican; it's a good start.

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Dick Morris, on the job at NewsMax

http://www.newsmax.com/morris/republican_senators/2007/09/14/32633.html

Quote:

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If the elections doesn't produce enough democrats in congress, the end result will probably continue to be a poor rating for them; they haven't produced any meaningful legislation yet, and I think Americans are getting tired of their impotence.

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Data from last month:

Quote:

POLL: CNN GOP Primary

Additional results from the new CNN/Opinion Research Corporation national survey (story, results) of 1,029 adults (conducted 8/6 through 8/8) finds:

* [..] 44% of Republicans say Giuliani has "the best chance of beating the Democratic nominee in the general election next November;" 17% say Thompson, 11% say McCain, 8% say Romney.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

If the elections doesn't produce enough democrats in congress, the end result will probably continue to be a poor rating for them; they haven't produced any meaningful legislation yet, and I think Americans are getting tired of their impotence.

How many is "enough"?
Do you want the dems to have all 435 seats?
If that happens, AND there is a dem president,what is to stop them from trampling on the constitution and our rights?

You seem to think the dems are the "be all,end all"

What makes you think the dems will be any better?
After all,they controlled the house and senate for years,yet we still have problems with crime and poverty, even though the dems said they wanted to fix all of that.
Why havent they?

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OCCOM BILL wrote:

How partisan can a non-citizen be? Hillary is perhaps the least popular front runner in history.

Again on the theme of this boisterous assertion (emphasis mine), more data that disproves it:

Quote:

Forty percent of Republican primary voters said they had a favorable view of Mr. Giuliani, with 14 percent unfavorable and the rest expressing no opinion. Senator John McCain of Arizona received a similar favorable rating from Republican voters, at 38 percent, but more, 28 percent, rated him negatively. About one in four Republican primary voters had favorable views of Mitt Romney, the former Massachusetts governor, and former Senator Fred D. Thompson of Tennessee, with the broad majority having no opinion about them at this stage.

More than 6 in 10 Democratic primary voters viewed Mrs. Clinton, of New York, favorably. Just over half rated Senator Barack Obama of Illinois positively, and 43 percent expressed a favorable opinion of former Senator John Edwards of North Carolina. Mr. Obama and Mr. Edwards do not have significantly higher unfavorable ratings than Mrs. Clinton; rather, more voters just have no opinion of them.

In short: Hillary enjoys higher favourables in the Democratic camp than any of the other Democratic candidates do, and higher favourables than any of the Republican candidates enjoy in their camp.

See the Link (from Sep 11)

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Quote:

In short: Hillary enjoys higher favourables in the Democratic camp than any of the other Democratic candidates do, and higher favourables than any of the Republican candidates enjoy in their camp.

But does she enjoy high favorables with repubs and those that claim to vote independent?
Also,none of the polls ask all voters,just those "likely to vote".
Its highly possible that when those people are factored in,she will lose the popularity you are crowing about now.

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mysteryman wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:
If the elections doesn't produce enough democrats in congress, the end result will probably continue to be a poor rating for them; they haven't produced any meaningful legislation yet, and I think Americans are getting tired of their impotence.

How many is "enough"?
Do you want the dems to have all 435 seats?

I'm sure c.i. means enough seats to actually pass legislation, i.e. enough to be able to forge 60-seat majorities in the Senate.

mysteryman wrote:

What makes you think the dems will be any better?
After all,they controlled the house and senate for years,yet we still have problems with crime and poverty, even though the dems said they wanted to fix all of that.
Why havent they?

See c.i.'s point. You have a Republican President who will veto anything that doesnt fit his ideological agenda (or add 'signing statements' that allow him to ignore the legislation at will). And you have a Republican minority in the Senate that has the 40 seats in the Senate to stop legislation and uses it to habitually obstruct everything meaningful the Dems come up with - just so they can be made to look bad exactly the way you are trying to do now. As long as both are in place, the hands of the Democrats are tied.

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A first(?) thread on 2008: McCain,Giuliani & the Republicans

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