A first(?) thread on 2008: McCain,Giuliani & the Republicans

McCain stated that the solution to a lot of our problems could be solved by controlling spending, and ending earmarking and pork-barrel spending.

A line item veto. Congress will never allow that.

McCain said "We are not going to build fences and barriers". He was talking over Blitzer (who was trying to move along), but I heard it. I think that tells most of us how serious he is about border security.

I give him points for what he said about Hispanics serving in our military - a noble tribute to them that I agree with.

But he still reminds me of the captain of the Titanic.

As of tonight, it's Rudy vs. Hillary.

realjohnboy wrote:

A line item veto. Congress will never allow that.

The sad, disgusting truth.

Supreme Court Deletes Line-Item Veto
Clinton disappointed; Opponents of veto call it a victory for the Constitution
WASHINGTON (AllPolitics, June 25) -- The line-item veto is unconstitutional, the Supreme Court decided Thursday, ruling that Congress did not have the authority to hand that power to the president.


The 6-3 ruling said that the Constitution gives a president only two choices: either sign legislation or send it back to Congress. The 1996 line-item veto law allowed the president to pencil out specific spending items approved by the Congress.

Thompson Demonstrates Broad Potential Appeal
Bush Approval Falls to 29% -- Lowest Ever

07:03 Didn't anyone tell Sam Brownback to leave the tight patterns at home? His tie just gave the dog an epileptic fit.

Meanwhile, I'm genuinely struck by how straight-from-central-casting the Republican candidates are. It's impressive, like an election taking place in Pleasantville.

7:15 If this election is to be decided on ties, Ron Paul is totally going to win. And Sam Brownback will be executed. Meanwhile, Paul got an ovation after his call for withdrawal. McCain got the other ovation for a stirring pro-war speech. Odd.

7:20 The most telling element of this debate is that it's so taken for granted that the Republicans would preemptively attack Iran to disrupt their nuclear weapons program that Blitzer isn't even bothering to ask. Instead, he's asking if they'd use tactical nukes to do it. And they would! The nuttery astonishes.

Meanwhile, Giuliani just accused the Democrats of being "in the 90s," still stuck in the Cold War. Someone should tell him when the Cold War ended.

7:25 Madcap immigration demagoguery from Tancredo. Says it's more important than anything else we've discussed so far, which means it's more important than Iraq, Iran, or the War on Terror. He gets an ovation for this.

7:41 Does anybody really believe religion is a "very important" part of Giuliani's life? He seems like the type who would make holy water sizzle. And isn't he married to his third wife, who he had an adulterous relationship with, outside the church?

7:47 McCain thinks Americans should be exposed to "all theories." All children will now go to school until the end of time.

7:51 I'm getting bored and surfing the net. How come you Tapped commenters are so quiet? I have access to our traffic stats, I know you're out there!

7:57 I can't quite seem to parse Ron Paul's answer on don't ask, don't tell. I think he's mainly against the use of ball gags by servicemembers, but I could be wrong.

8:01 Tommy Thompson says he'd use George W. Bush to go on a lecture circuit to talk to...children about public service. He also says Bush is full of passion, and straightforwardness, and perserverance. It's hard to escape the sense that he's calling Bush an idiot. Meanwhile, Tancredo would tell Bush what Rove told him -- "never darken my door again."

8:18 McCain actually just said "I'm going to give you a little bit of straight talk." Unsurprisingly, there wasn't much of that.

8:21 Giuliani is very good at, and very shameless about, blurring Iraq and the War on Terror. His lines are lifted directly from March 2003. I'm not really sure if this sort of thing is still effective, but Giuliani is certainly going to give it a shot. Fearmongering isn't dead, not by a longshot.

8:25 Check out Andrew Sullivan on the shameful dodges, flip-flops, evasions, and cowardice the contenders displayed on gays in the military.

8:27 Giuliani is going to recreate health insurance in this country with a $15,000 tax deduction. Is he kidding? And now he's saying health insurance should be like homeowner's insurance. Yes, because what I'm really worried about is that my liver is going to get stolen.

8:30 Tommy Thompson is really excited to talk about health care. And he's talking prevention, rather than consumer-driven BS. He's my guy!

8:31 No, really, I've never seen anyone more excited to talk about anything than Thompson on health care. I think he's going to squeal. He makes me look bored by the subject.

8:36 Giuliani appears to believe freedom of the press, freedom of religion, and freedom of speech all come from God. Why does Giuliani hate the Founding Fathers?

8:41 Romney's accused of being a flip-flopper. He's for making English the official language, but he has Spanish literature, a Spanish web site, and on it, videos of his kid speaking in Spanish. I also hear he loves chalupas. (As for his actual answer, it goes something like "dodge, dodge, evasion, dodge, flip-flop).

8:42 Tancredo promises he won't advertise in Spanish. "Believe me," he pleads. I do!

8:52 Tancredo has an odd idea of what it means to be an American. For instance: You must cut any and all ties to your old country. As Ana writes, "Tancredo wants to outlaw St. Patrick's Day." This may be just what Democrats need to resolidify their hold on the Catholic vote...

8:56 Jim Gilmore (who I've managed to ignore thus far) says, "when I first ran, they told me a conservative couldn't win in Virginia." Matt (sitting next to me): "Who told him that!? A conservative can't win in Virginia 14 years ago!? He needs better staff."

8:57 Hunter accuses Romney of "a strong step towards socialism" with his health care bill. Snap!

By standing alone, McCain finds a chance to stand out

When moderator Wolf Blitzer asked the 10 Republican presidential candidates whether any of them opposed making English the "official" language of the United States, Arizona Senator John McCain looked wearily down the line. He saw no hands going up.

McCain motioned to Blitzer with a half-wave and said: "I would like to remind you that we made treaties with Native Americans such as the Navajos in my state, where we respect their sovereignty and they use their native language in their deliberations. It's not a big deal. But Native Americans are important to me in my state."

McCain's weariness was understandable. After laboring for months to establish himself as the candidate of mainstream conservatives, the Arizona senator is now in the position of defending an immigration bill that many conservatives detest. And most of his fellow GOP presidential candidates at last night's debate attacked the bill like hungry dogs tearing into a hunk of sirloin.

The debate revealed that despite McCain's claim to the loyalties of the Republican mainstream, he's still a wild card in the presidential race: the lonely voice against using torture to interrogate terrorism suspects, in favor of a "guest-worker" plan, and expressing qualms about English as the official language.

"It's our job to do the hard things and not the easy things," McCain said last night, in a phrase he's used often enough to make it his unofficial campaign slogan.

McCain's support for the immigration bill probably hurts his chance of winning the GOP nomination. But it may have helped him rediscover the political persona that made him appealing in 2000 -- that of the lonely truth-teller. [..]

Romney [..] was effective both in defending his Mormon beliefs and characterizing them in terms that are broadly acceptable to mainstream Christians.

But he began the debate on a perplexing note, refusing to answer the "hypothetical" question of whether invading Iraq was, in retrospect, a mistake -- an answer practically contoured to remind every voter that he's been accused of being inconsistent in his views.

Then again, Romney wasn't pummeled like McCain -- but he also offered no answers except his defense of his religion that had the potential to inspire people.

McCain did -- not only in standing up for the Navajos, but for Hispanics, talking about all the Hispanic names carved into the wall of the Vietnam memorial.

Republicans seem to love McCain's integrity but distrust his views.

So far, they seem to feel the opposite way about Romney.

THE DEBATE:

I took considerable heat from liberal friends over my profile last year of John McCain, but after hearing tonight's debate, I feel somewhat vindicated. Which is to say that among the moral midgets running for president on the Republican side, McCain still stands out as a giant. His eloquent defense of America as an immigrant society [..] was a single ray of light in the darkest of political nights.

Perhaps, one shouldn't take the Republicans seriously. Mitt Romney runs commercial in Spanish and wants English to be declared the official language. Romney and Rudy Giuliani, who once championed gay rights, now insist that nothing be changed in the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy. All the leading candidates, including McCain, repeat the canard that got us into Baghdad in the first place: justifying the continued American occupation of Iraq as a means of defending against the threat of terrorists at home.

If their words are taken seriously, they will lead to protracted and futile attempt to use the American military to dominate the Middle East. At the least, they'll cheapen the coinage of American politics, transforming the 2008 race into a carnival of demagoguery. Giuliani outdoes them all in stoking fears of foreign bogeymen -- from Teheran to Ramadi to Hoboken. It's a sorry spectacle -- one in which McCain's evocation of the Hispanic names on the Vietnam memorial stood as a reminder that of these presidential aspirants, he is the only one with a shred of moral integrity.

Rudy Was Against English Being "Official Language" Before He Was For It
By Greg Sargent
Wolf Blitzer just asked the GOP candidates to raise their hands if they oppose the idea of making English the country's official language. There's Rudy Giuliani, front and center, keeping his hands at his sides:

In other words, Rudy now favors making English the official language of the United States, right?

Ahhhh, but it turns out that Rudy hasn't always been in favor of this -- particularly back when he was Mayor of a city full of non-English-speaking immigrants. From The New York Times on August 14, 1996 (via Nexis):

Quote:

Brushing aside the strong objections of Hispanic groups, the Suffolk County Legislature approved a resolution today that would make English the county's official language...

The law would be the first of its kind in a New York county. Twenty-three states, 41 counties and 15 cities have passed similar measures, and a bill recognizing English as the official national language has been passed by the House of Representatives. A similar measure was defeated in Suffolk in 1989.

In New York City, Mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani has consistently opposed such measures. Earlier this month, he remarked, "There's no reason to pass a bill like this except, maybe, to exclude people, insult people or offend people."

HokieBird wrote:

McCain said "We are not going to build fences and barriers". He was talking over Blitzer (who was trying to move along), but I heard it. I think that tells most of us how serious he is about border security.

I give him points for what he said about Hispanics serving in our military - a noble tribute to them that I agree with.

But he still reminds me of the captain of the Titanic.

As of tonight, it's Rudy vs. Hillary.

You haven't been watching the other side? Obama may very well take Hillary's spot.

Hey HokieBird, I dont think you were around yet when we had a first straw poll thread. Is there any presidential candidate that you're leaning to most now? Any second choices?