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A first(?) thread on 2008: McCain,Giuliani & the Republicans

 
 
mele42846
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Mar, 2006 11:27 am
You are correct, Lash and you may be aware that up to the last election, Reid never won with more than 51% of the vote.

But what could the Democrats do? He was the whip, he did not have the horrible baggage carried by Scumbag Kennedy or the plagiarist Biden.

I was quite interested to see that the Abramoff 'Scandal" was largely abandoned by the Democrats since Senator Reid was up to his eyeballs in the Indian donations fueled by Abramoff.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Mar, 2006 12:28 pm
mele42846 wrote:
Sozobe apparently is not aware that ...

Is it clear now, Sozobe?

Oh dear, we have a new incarnation of Mr. Same-old, same-old ... the right wing's own Roxxxanne.
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mele42846
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Mar, 2006 10:02 pm
You asked the question, Sozobe. You got an answer. Is the answer wrong ? If so., please point out the inaccuracies so we can all learn.

If not, read and learn.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The reason that Harry Reid became the Minority Leader in the Senate is because they could not give the job to Biden( an admitted Plagiarist) or
Kennedy( The Chappaquidick Kid who killed Mary Jo Kopechne and was summarily booted out of Harvard for cheating on a Spanish test.

Sozobe apparently is not aware that Senator Reid was elected in 1986, giving him twenty years of experience and, more importantly, was the DEMOCRATIC WHIP IN THE SENATE-THE NUMBER TWO MAN IN THE PARTY'S LEADERSHIP.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Mar, 2006 10:14 pm
I did not "ask a question". I speculated as to the name of an article, and then found the actual article, and linked to it.

Quite simple, really.

Speculation as to title of article:

sozobe wrote:
There was a New Yorker from August 2005 or so (I just saw it last night) that had the title of something like "How did a pro-life, pro-gun [something] become the minority leader?"


Actual title of article:

Quote:
MINORITY RETORT
How a pro-gun, anti-abortion Nevadan leads the Senate's Democrats.


If you disagree with the title, your argument is with Elsa Walsh, not me.

(nimh, no kidding...)
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mele42846
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Mar, 2006 10:16 pm
Ok, Then I disagree with Elsa Walsh. Do you disagree with her? People usually do not post items they disagree with unless they state that they disagree with the item.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Mar, 2006 10:18 pm
I think her article -- which shows some of the reasons why he became the leader -- to be very informative.

Have you read it, by any chance?
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mele42846
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Mar, 2006 10:25 pm
Of course, unlike left wingers, who almost never read links put up by the other side, I always read before I comment.

My precis is, in my opinion, more to the point. The writer did not mention a key point--that Reid was the Minority Whip in the Senate and the number two man after Daschle UNTIL FAR FAR INTO THE ARTICLE.

She should have put that up front. It is a key in understanding why he became Minority Leader.

Secondly, the writer did not mention that he won none of his races except the last one by no more than 51%. That was another key to understanding Reid's pugnacity.

And finally, the writer made a serious error. Reid and his wife are not Mormons-They are Morons.
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DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Mar, 2006 02:03 am
mele42846 wrote:
Secondly, the writer did not mention that he won none of his races except the last one by no more than 51%. That was another key to understanding Reid's pugnacity.

george w. bush won the last election with a 51% tab...

And finally, the writer made a serious error. Reid and his wife are not Mormons-They are Morons.


so, attacking people of faith, are we, melee?
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Mar, 2006 05:30 am
Paul Krugman's new Op-Ed deals with John McCain and his political positions. Looking at his role-call votes, Krugman concludes that he is a candidate of the far right,and that his political differences with George Bush have been exaggerated. Unsurprisingly, Krugman doesn't seem to like him.

Paul Krugman wrote:
Would Mr. McCain, like Mr. Bush, have found some pretext for invading Iraq? We'll never know. But Mr. McCain still thinks the war was a good idea, and he rejects any attempt to extricate ourselves from the quagmire. "If success requires an increase in American troop levels in 2006," he wrote last year, "then we must increase our numbers there." He didn't explain where the overstretched U.S. military is supposed to find these troops.

When it comes to social issues, Mr. McCain, who once called Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell "agents of intolerance," met with Mr. Falwell late last year. Perhaps as a result, he is now taking positions friendly to the religious right. Most notably, Mr. McCain's spokesperson says that he would have signed South Dakota's extremist new anti-abortion law.

The spokesperson went on to say that the senator would have taken "the appropriate steps under state law" to ensure that cases of rape and incest were excluded. But that attempt at qualification makes no sense: the South Dakota law has produced national shockwaves precisely because it prohibits abortions even for victims of rape or incest.

The bottom line is that Mr. McCain isn't a moderate; he's a man of the hard right. How far right? A statistical analysis of Mr. McCain's recent voting record, available at www.voteview.com, ranks him as the Senate's third most conservative member.

Full article (Times Select subscription required)

I think Krugman is probably too harsh on McCain as a person. Unlike Bush, he seems largely unaffected by the culture of corruption that pervades the Republicans' current leadership. If that's true, McCain remains a viable candidate for any swing voter whose main problem with the Bush administration is cronyism. But for those who mostly object to the conservative principles it claims to enact (but doesn't), there is little reason to vote for John McCain. Krugman deserves credit for pointing that out. (I was a little taken aback myself when I saw McCain's profile on issues2000.org. I had known that he wasn't quite as moderate as his reputation, but I didn't know he was that much more conservative socially.)

PS: I think McCain is another proof that you can't trust the press on the portrait it paints of any candidate's politics. We can get much superior information from research that polls and measures those things, such as Voteview and Issues 2000.
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Mar, 2006 10:53 am
I've always been surprised at the McCain fans here, who don't also like Bush, since they're so similar.
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Mar, 2006 11:25 am
matter of preception in that regard Lash, McCain appears honest. Personally I don't like either.
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Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Mar, 2006 11:37 am
I also question why any progressive would favor McCain. Apart from campaign-finance reform, I don't see much difference between him and Bush. Just this past week McCain emphasized his support of Bush.

The differences between them are more style than substance, IMHO...
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Mar, 2006 11:40 am
dyslexia wrote:
Personally I don't like either.

Why was I not surprised... :wink:
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DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Mar, 2006 01:41 pm
Lash wrote:
I've always been surprised at the McCain fans here, who don't also like Bush, since they're so similar.


umm, there's a couple of things that mccain has done that i really appreciate;

the gang of 14

the anti-torture bill.

campaign reform

but i'm a little dismayed that i just heard he's backing i.d. that was a big surprise.

frankly, i'm now thinking that he is probably more useful in the senate.
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Mar, 2006 02:11 pm
I bet the Bush administration sees the "torture" plank as a hindrance, not their goal in keeping the law as it is. They feel that they need the right to detain highly suspicious people. I can understand someone in good conscience disagreeing with that--but acting as though Bush wants the right to use torture, is disingenuous.

Bush has also agreed witht he need for campaign finance reform. (Who hasn't?)

ID is basic sense, don't you think? Bush is bending over backward to make things easy for legal immigrants. Neither supports illegal immigration. Why do you? I can't understand it.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Mar, 2006 03:07 pm
Perhaps ID as in Intelligent Design, rather than as in ID-cards?

Theres a difference between "agreeing with the need" (for campaign finance reform) and actually pushing for it. Anyone can verbally "agree with the need" as a kind of lip service without planning to actually do much about it.
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mele42846
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Mar, 2006 03:13 pm
McCain and torture?

Of course, McCain, having been a prisoner of war would and should be very supportive of Anti-Torture legislation. But the devil is in the details.

I am generally supportive of the Bush administration and the Military's approach but somethings are just inhuman.

According to an article in the Chicago Sun-Times--December 19th 2005, a report by the Human Rights Watch Group indicated that in Afghanistan, detainees were "chained to walls, deprived of food and water, and kept in total darkness with loud rap and heavy metal music blaring for weeks at a time"

BARBARISM AT ITS WORST---If they forced the poor prisoners to listen to --It's tough for a Pimp out there--the World must condemn the torture immediately.
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DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Mar, 2006 03:39 pm
Lash wrote:
ID is basic sense, don't you think? Bush is bending over backward to make things easy for legal immigrants. Neither supports illegal immigration. Why do you? I can't understand it.


huh?!? you lookin' at me ? Laughing

i meant intelligent design. Shocked
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DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Mar, 2006 03:42 pm
mele42846 wrote:
---If they forced the poor prisoners to listen to --It's tough for a Pimp out there--the World must condemn the torture immediately.


god forgive me... i agree with mele on something. Shocked
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mele42846
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Mar, 2006 04:11 pm
But wait, Dont Tread, that is not the end of the horror!

The loud rap and heavy metal included Eminem, Ludacris and SNOOP DOGGY DOG.

I am sure that the prisoners who went stark raving mad can present their case to the Hague when the Bush Adminstration is subjected to their own "Nuremberg Trial"
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