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A first(?) thread on 2008: McCain,Giuliani & the Republicans

 
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Feb, 2008 10:03 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
I think that McCain's vulnerabilities won't mean much, cause he's the only GOP candidate.

Lying again, ci. Huckabee is still running, last I heard. And isn't Ron Paul still in the race too?
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Feb, 2008 10:04 pm
okie wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
ican, You are a hopeless numbskull.

A numbskull does not come up with brilliant lying scales as icann has done, ci, so I disagree. I think icann's skull is not numb at all, and at least he has a skull, do you? He has rightly pointed out that McCain is quite a bit worse than Washington, but probably only about half as bad as Clinton and Obama. I think he has it pretty well pegged.


You must be either deaf and/or dumb; the news all day has been about the McCain lie.
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Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Feb, 2008 10:05 pm
sozobe wrote:
Seems like at least some lying is going on:


And then soz, the Reasonable One, adopted the Cycloptichorn standard of determining what is a lie and what is not a lie ... and the world would never be the same.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Feb, 2008 10:05 pm
Huckabee may be "running," but he's a dead man walking.
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Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Feb, 2008 10:18 pm
Quote:
There's Something About that Grin ...
Liberal remorse.


By David Kahane

I'm beginning to get a bad feeling about this.

Call it buyer's remorse, or fear of the unknown, or simply Pinch Sulzbergeritis, but doesn't it feel like our nice secure liberal world just left its orbit this week? As Hillary waddled off the stage in defeat Thursday night after the debate, with Barack Obama grinning from ear to ear to ear to ear, I could the sense the Old Guard passing, the end of an era, the moment when old First Ladies never die, they just ?- aw, let's just cut to the chase: We're gonna lose. And we're gonna lose bad.

I mean, what the hell was the New York Times thinking, running that half-sourced farrago of a Barbra Streisand hit job on John McCain that snarked and sneered and amounted to… what? That eight years ago a sitting senator spent some time with a lobbyist who bore an uncanny resemblance to his wife… and you just know, deep down, that there was some canoodling going on, don't you? Come on, admit it. Even though we can't really prove it.

Every wing nut in America's been saying for weeks that the Times's endorsement of John McCain in the New York primary was just a ruse, that the minute he had the nomination secured they'd drop the pose of Best Friend and turn out to be Worst Enemy. Problem is, we've all seen that movie a hundred times: For crying out loud, it's the plot of Phantom Lady, and that movie came out in 1944! Not to mention the Peanuts comic strip, where Lucy yanks the football away from that helpless schlimazel, Charlie Brown, and he lands flat on his tush.

Maybe they thought they could get away with it. After all, intrepid Times reporters have been prancing around these past few years like Mr. Peachum in a road-company version of The Beggar's Opera, happily receiving stolen goods, exposing national secrets, and making returning vets look as homicidally nutty as Bobby De Niro in Taxi Driver. And Bush, the human punching bag, lets them get away with it, even when they spit right in his eye. Lincoln and Woodrow Wilson would have hanged the editors and burned down the building long ago: Chimpy McDeath just grins and takes it.

But in McCain they might have picked on the wrong guy. Someone who started his day with bamboo shoots up his fingernails every day for five years in Hanoi isn't likely to be scared by Bill Keller and his minions; and, if you ask me, McCain could win the election simply by promising that on Day One he puts James Risen and Eric Lichtblau in jail and padlocks the Times for treason. Talk about red meat for the Right!

Besides, who are we go get all exercised about sex? We were able to convince half of America that Bill Clinton got impeached for a Monica Lewinsky special, when in fact he got rung up for perjury in front of a federal judge in the Paula Jones case. And the miracle of the 2004 election was that we were able to turn a hapless congressman no one had ever heard of named Mark Foley into the poster boy for sexual predators, when all he did was send a few risqué e-mails to youngish male pages. As opposed to the real-life adventures of Barney Frank and Gerry Studds and, well, you get the idea.

If it feels good, we do it, and defend our right to do so. You don't ?- but we know you want to, so we nail you for hypocrisy. Is there a double standard? You bet your booty there is ?- we're the good guys!

The other thing that's bothering me is this Barry Hussein Jr., guy. How long is the Punahou Kid going to be able to skate on The Audacity of Hope and The Hope of Audacity? When you actually look at his voting record ?- and we sure hope you never do ?- you notice that basically he's more or less of a commie, not that there's anything wrong with that. Some of my best friends are commies, er, "progressives."

But the whole cool thing about being a far-Left liberal is that we're like undercover secret agents, who have to shield our real goals and motives from you, the suckers. How far would we get if we actually came out and said that we want to nationalize health care, raise taxes to confiscatory levels on the filthy rich who make more than $75,000 a year, preemptively surrender in Iraq, and flood the country with illegal aliens and then turn them into citizens in a transparent attempt to get votes and keep the Ponzi Scheme solvent?

O.K., so both Hillary and Obama are saying exactly that. But you take my point, which is this: The reason Hillary had to go was, well, to put it kindly ?- she was a dreadful candidate. That grim Nurse Ratched visage, that hectoring, flat, midwestern drone, the stubby finger-pointing: She was every guy's first wife and his first mother-in-law rolled into a pantsuit. Sure, a lot of you conservatives have been saying that for years, but the scales finally fell from our eyes when along came B. H. Obama, Buffenblu extraordinaire and the pride of Honolulu, someone in whom we could invest our hopes for change. Someone who could lead us into that brighter future where things change but hope never dies. Someone who could finally liberate David Shuster and Chris Matthews from the tyranny of the Clintons, and let them stand proudly, shoulder to shoulder, in the brave new world of tomorrow.

But now the magic is beginning to wear off. Instead of the second coming of Jesus Christ, some of us are beginning to sense the second coming of Jim Jones. Instead of a new redeemer, we're looking at an undistinguished first-term senator with no paper trail, a wife with a major-league chip on her shoulder, a politician from the insalubrious precincts of Bathhouse John Coughlin and Hinky Dink Kenna's old hometown of Chicago.

As another famous Illinoisan once said: You can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time. And then he suspended habeas corpus and went on to fight and win the Civil War.

Do-over, anybody?
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Feb, 2008 10:30 pm
So Tico, when a candidate says they didn't do something, and then evidence is presented that they did - it isn't a lie?

Talking Points Memo:

Quote:

Not Looking Good

Maybe they'd prefer to go back to the affair story?

When John McCain went before the press on Wednesday to deny having an affair with lobbyist Vicki Iseman, he also made a series of categorical denials about the non-sex, influence peddling part of the story. Only many or most of those claims now appear to be demonstrably false.

McCain said and his office later released a statement claiming that McCain hadn't met with anyone from either Paxson Communications (the broadcaster wanting the favors) or Alcalde & Fay (the lobby shop trying to get them the favors). Today, though, Newsweek's Michael Isikoff dug up a 2002 deposition in which McCain said that he had discussed the issue directly with Lowell Paxson, the head of Paxson Communications. Now the Post has asked Paxson himself, now retired, and he says, Yep, I met with McCain and asked him to write the letters. And he thinks he remembers Iseman being in the meeting too.

--Josh Marshall


http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/179783.php

What would you consider a lie?

Cycloptichorn
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Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Feb, 2008 10:38 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
So Tico, when a candidate says they didn't do something, and then evidence is presented that they did - it isn't a lie?


Not necessarily. And I'm equal opportunity on this issue, and always have been.
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okie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Feb, 2008 10:46 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Huckabee may be "running," but he's a dead man walking.
How could he be walking if he is running, and how could he be running if he is dead? He looks just as alive as Ms. Clinton. Is she alive?
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Feb, 2008 10:56 pm
Ms Clinton still has a chance with Texas and Ohio, even though most pundits are saying her chances are slim. Where does Huckabee have a chance at this juncture?
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Feb, 2008 10:57 pm
okie wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
Huckabee may be "running," but he's a dead man walking.
How could he be walking if he is running, and how could he be running if he is dead? He looks just as alive as Ms. Clinton. Is she alive?


Your simple mind can't see the obvious. That's not my problem.
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mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Feb, 2008 07:09 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
Ms Clinton still has a chance with Texas and Ohio, even though most pundits are saying her chances are slim. Where does Huckabee have a chance at this juncture?


Huckabee has no chance, but he IS still running.
That directly contradicts YOUR earlier claim that
Quote:
cause he's the only GOP candidate

when you were talking about McCain.
You then said
Quote:
Huckabee may be "running," but he's a dead man walking.


So you even disproved your own original statement.

Yet you dont seem to be man (or woman) enough to admit that you either misspoke or just plain lied.
Now you are being held to the same standard you demand that others adhere to, so were you wrong about Huckabee, or did you lie on purpose, for your own reasons?
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Feb, 2008 10:12 am
More inappropriate involvement on the behalf of McCain towards Mrs. Iseman.

Quote:
In late 1998, Senator John McCain sent an unusually blunt letter to the head of the Federal Communications Commission, warning that he would try to overhaul the agency if it closed a broadcast ownership loophole.

The letter, and two later ones signed by Mr. McCain, then chairman of the Senate Commerce Committee, urged the commission to abandon plans to close a loophole vitally important to Glencairn Ltd., a client of Vicki Iseman, a lobbyist. The provision enabled one of the nation's largest broadcasting companies, Sinclair, to use a marketing agreement with Glencairn, a far smaller broadcaster, to get around a restriction barring single ownership of two television stations in the same city.


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/23/us/politics/23lobby.html?ref=us

McCain has already gotten himself in trouble. His 'denial' of the original story contained several lies. Now, it looks as if he has done a lot more work on behalf of this lady and her companies then originally thought.

Cycloptichorn
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okie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Feb, 2008 10:15 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
okie wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
Huckabee may be "running," but he's a dead man walking.
How could he be walking if he is running, and how could he be running if he is dead? He looks just as alive as Ms. Clinton. Is she alive?


Your simple mind can't see the obvious. That's not my problem.

Stranger things have happened, ci. What if McCain has a mild heart attack, or suffers from exhaustion on the campaign trail, after all he is no spring chicken? Or something worse than has come out so far then comes out on McCain. The point is, Huckabee and Paul are still running even though you said McCain is the only one running. And if Clinton loses Texas and Ohio, she is just about as dead as Huckabee. As of today, she may or may not win those states, but the momentum in the polls are in Obama's favor, and as every day passes, her strength wanes, unless she can do something spectacular or Obama stumbles, but it isn't happening yet.

I am just trying to keep you honest, which is virtually a full time job. Read MM, as he also is doing the same.
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okie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Feb, 2008 10:19 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:


McCain has already gotten himself in trouble. His 'denial' of the original story contained several lies. Now, it looks as if he has done a lot more work on behalf of this lady and her companies then originally thought.

Cycloptichorn

None of this is surprising, cyclops, but it pales in comparison to the Clinton corruption during virtually their entire lives. It is very mild, but it does dent the image that McCain has sought to portray and that many people have falsely believed.
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Feb, 2008 10:26 am
okie wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:


McCain has already gotten himself in trouble. His 'denial' of the original story contained several lies. Now, it looks as if he has done a lot more work on behalf of this lady and her companies then originally thought.

Cycloptichorn

None of this is surprising, cyclops, but it pales in comparison to the Clinton corruption during virtually their entire lives. It is very mild, but it does dent the image that McCain has sought to portray and that many people have falsely believed.


Oh, I don't know if it's so mild. McCain has positioned himself as a reformer and someone who doesn't do business with special interests. That's clearly a lie. Cuts to the heart of his position. Expect to see a lot more of this in the general election - and, I would guess, we aren't quite at the bottom of the rabbit hole yet.

Cycloptichorn
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okie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Feb, 2008 10:41 am
My guess is McCain is a typical Washington politician, and certainly not as pure as the wind driven snow in regard to lobbyists and the like, contrary to the image he wishes to portray, however the man is not sinister and he is far from the Clintonistas, who have gotten where they are with secret investigators, kickbacks, intimidation of enemies, such as with the IRS, pardoning of terrorists, illegal foreign campaign money, and the list goes on. My point is very accurate, McCain is not anywhere near the level of corruption of the Clintons for example, but sadly McCain has sought to repeatedly make his whole campaign image to be something he isn't in my opinion. No crime in backroom deals, but he is a Washington insider, and he is just as tied in with lobbyists as many others in Washington, most likely. Which is not a crime if there is no quid pro quo, but nonetheless, McCain is very vulnerable on this issue because he has made it central to his image and campaign stategy.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Feb, 2008 11:14 am
McCain was not/is not the first choice of many of us. But as it seems a near certainty that he will be the nominee, the one question Republicans and conservatives will have to ask themselves is whether Hillary gets us closer to what this country needs in a leader, or the most liberal senator in Congress gets us closer to what this country needs in a leader, or whether McCain gets us closer to what this country needs in a leader.

From where I sit, it's a no brainer.

http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/bg0219j.jpg
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ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Feb, 2008 12:25 pm
Foxfyre, your signature is too important to allow anyone to overlook it. I copy and post it with the emphasis it deserves:

"I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it."
-- Benjamin Franklin 1776
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mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Feb, 2008 02:10 pm
Anyone else notice that ci refuses to retract his statement that McCain was the only repub candidate, even after he proved himself wrong?
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Feb, 2008 01:27 pm
from Tico's paste...
Quote:
The other thing that's bothering me is this Barry Hussein Jr., guy.


Your integrity ain't improving.
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