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A first(?) thread on 2008: McCain,Giuliani & the Republicans

 
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Jan, 2008 11:23 pm
Ticomaya wrote:
He doesn't bring that whole, "lets change the Constitution to reflect God's will" baggage to the table.

I think Huckabee shot his damn foot off with that one.


But he won't be making any policy. He won't be changing the Constitution. He'll be the v.p., after all, not the President.

The VP is for bringing in votes, not making policy. Though like I said, confusing for your team given the recent shenanigans.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Jan, 2008 09:55 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:


But he won't be making any policy. He won't be changing the Constitution. He'll be the v.p., after all, not the President.
Cycloptichorn


If this is so, then why do you say Cheney is making policy?

And, how much policy did Al Gore write and implement during his 8 years?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Jan, 2008 10:12 am
mysteryman wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:


But he won't be making any policy. He won't be changing the Constitution. He'll be the v.p., after all, not the President.
Cycloptichorn


If this is so, then why do you say Cheney is making policy?

And, how much policy did Al Gore write and implement during his 8 years?


Because Cheney is making policy. Bush is a weakling and a fool, more so then any of the Republican candidates for election.

Gore couldn't write or implement any policies; that's the job of the legislature. Though, once again, I can understand how you Republicans are confused about the various roles of the branches of gov't these days.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Jan, 2008 10:16 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:
mysteryman wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:


But he won't be making any policy. He won't be changing the Constitution. He'll be the v.p., after all, not the President.
Cycloptichorn


If this is so, then why do you say Cheney is making policy?

And, how much policy did Al Gore write and implement during his 8 years?


Because Cheney is making policy. Bush is a weakling and a fool, more so then any of the Republican candidates for election.

Gore couldn't write or implement any policies; that's the job of the legislature. Though, once again, I can understand how you Republicans are confused about the various roles of the branches of gov't these days.

Cycloptichorn


You are the one that seems confused.
Gore couldnt do it, but Cheney can?

Has the constitution been changed to allow Cheney that power?
No, it hasnt.

You obviously dont like Cheney, but dont give him more power than he actually has.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Jan, 2008 10:39 am
mysteryman wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
mysteryman wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:


But he won't be making any policy. He won't be changing the Constitution. He'll be the v.p., after all, not the President.
Cycloptichorn


If this is so, then why do you say Cheney is making policy?

And, how much policy did Al Gore write and implement during his 8 years?


Because Cheney is making policy. Bush is a weakling and a fool, more so then any of the Republican candidates for election.

Gore couldn't write or implement any policies; that's the job of the legislature. Though, once again, I can understand how you Republicans are confused about the various roles of the branches of gov't these days.

Cycloptichorn


You are the one that seems confused.
Gore couldnt do it, but Cheney can?

Has the constitution been changed to allow Cheney that power?
No, it hasnt.

You obviously dont like Cheney, but dont give him more power than he actually has.


Gore was VP; Cheney is co-president of the US.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Jan, 2008 10:46 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:
mysteryman wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
mysteryman wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:


But he won't be making any policy. He won't be changing the Constitution. He'll be the v.p., after all, not the President.
Cycloptichorn


If this is so, then why do you say Cheney is making policy?

And, how much policy did Al Gore write and implement during his 8 years?


Because Cheney is making policy. Bush is a weakling and a fool, more so then any of the Republican candidates for election.

Gore couldn't write or implement any policies; that's the job of the legislature. Though, once again, I can understand how you Republicans are confused about the various roles of the branches of gov't these days.

Cycloptichorn


You are the one that seems confused.
Gore couldnt do it, but Cheney can?

Has the constitution been changed to allow Cheney that power?
No, it hasn't.

You obviously don't like Cheney, but don't give him more power than he actually has.


Gore was VP; Cheney is co-president of the US.

Cycloptichorn


Not according to the constitution, or don't you remember that document???

Your irrational hatred for Cheney is causing you to see monsters under your bed.
I would suggest you go get some counseling to help you deal with your psychosis regarding Cheney.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Jan, 2008 11:10 am
I think you are exaggerating, just a little.

There is ample proof that Cheney has been driving the administration's business for some time. You'd have to be blind to have missed it.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Jan, 2008 11:17 am
Cheney is not co-president; he's the puppeteer.
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ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Jan, 2008 07:58 pm
Was Hillary Clinton's puppeteer like you allege Cheney is Bush's puppeteer.?
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jan, 2008 03:44 pm
Too much fun to miss:

Quote:
Jon Voight, Yes. Deliverance, No.

Washington Post
By Dana Milbank
Tuesday, January 29, 2008

SANFORD, Fla. Just when it seemed nothing else could go wrong for Rudy Giuliani, the actor Jon Voight got up to introduce the candidate at an airport rally here Monday and found a malfunctioning microphone.

"This is a [inaudible] man," the father of Angelina Jolie told the meager crowd. "I saw firsthand all the greatest of the [inaudible]. . . . I wound up in [inaudible]. . . . But, anyway, I saw the [inaudible]."

Voight finally decided to speak without the microphone. "This thing is not working very well," he observed.

No, it isn't.

Last year, the former New York mayor towered above the Republican presidential field with a lead of more than 2 to 1 over his nearest competitor. But now, after a thumping in the first five presidential contests, he's making a last stand Tuesday in Florida's primary. Polls show he'll be lucky to place third here in the state that Giuliani himself described as his must-win primary.

Cue the vultures.

A 50-strong press corps manned the death watch Monday, Giuliani's final day of campaigning in Florida. His first rally, in the Orlando area, attracted only 100 non-journalists -- and about a quarter of those were foreign visitors participating in a State Department program. The crowd at his second event (in St. Petersburg, where 120 people fit into a corner of a cavernous airport hangar) would have been appropriate for a city council race. The gathering at the next stop, on the tarmac in Fort Myers, was 115.

By the time Giuliani reached Fort Lauderdale in the evening, the crowd had shrunk to 75, producing an embarrassing media-and-staff-to-supporter ratio of about 2 to 1. Giuliani hurried through his speech, then hid himself inside a hangar for 45 minutes.

"I see dead people," ABC News's Jake Tapper wrote in his blog Monday morning, comparing Giuliani to Bruce Willis in "The Sixth Sense": "Everyone except for him knows he's not alive." The Orlando Sentinel, in the Monday paper in which it endorsed John McCain, judged that Giuliani is "fighting it out for third" behind McCain and Mitt Romney.

But the candidate remained resolutely in denial. "We're going to win Florida tomorrow," he announced to the gathering in Sanford. Aboard Giuliani's plane, reporters regarded that boast with skepticism. "I believe we're going to win," Giuliani repeated to the death-watchers.

"Have you boxed yourself into a corner, though, by saying that the winner of Florida will win the Republican nomination?"

"We're going to win Florida," Giuliani said once more.

"You were leading for a long time and now . . . you're far behind," another inquisitor pointed out. "Did you see this coming?"

"We think we'll win," Giuliani repeated.

"One of the lessons in your book is 'underpromise and overdeliver,' " pointed out a cheeky questioner. "How does that lesson apply to this race?"

"Uh, we're going to deliver," he answered. "We're going to win Florida." Only then did he acknowledge that taking his stand in Florida "was the best choice given the realities that we had."

Those realities were daunting. The thrice-married Giuliani had started out at odds with the Republican conservative faithful on abortion, gay rights and guns. Indeed, the remarkable thing may well have been not his spectacular collapse but his ability to stay atop the GOP race for so long. For some time, it appeared Republicans might nominate a candidate who lived with gay men while engaged in a messy and public divorce from his second wife (who performed in "The Vagina Monologues") and also billed security expenses for his mistress to the city's loft board.

Or was it all just a dream?

Giuliani awoke to a different fantasy Monday morning -- in Orlando's Portofino Bay Hotel, a reproduction of an Italian seaside village. It was an ideal escape for a candidate who had said, six weeks earlier, that "I don't just pray for miracles, I don't just hope for miracles, I expect miracles."

But miracles were not in evidence at his stop outside Orlando. Even the Giuliani press-bus driver had trouble finding the rally. Once on the scene, a Dutch television crew beset a young man selling "Rudy 2008" clothing. "How's business?" one of them demanded. "I don't see anyone here."

"It's early," the salesman replied, with irritation.

Giuliani worked his way through his made-for-Florida stump speech: "I am the only candidate who has come out strongly in favor of a national catastrophe fund!" And: "If you want a one-page tax return, vote for Rudy Giuliani!" Even: "We've got to make sure we put a person on Mars!"

He closed with a plea to Floridians to reject the choices of voters in New Hampshire, Iowa and the other early-voting states that he skipped. "If we win here in Florida," he said, "it will be Florida that determines the president of the United States of America."

Giuliani worked the crowd, only to encounter State Department visitors from Gambia and Hungary.

Next stop: St. Petersburg, where a woman with a cowbell was trying to stir up the thin crowd. Texas Gov. Rick Perry tried for a rousing speech -- at least until this sound system, too, went down, with a thump.

The circuits recovered in time for Giuliani to take the stage and deliver his now-familiar appeal to Florida spirit: "Let's make Florida count." Three hours later, he raised the ante in Fort Myers. Of a Giuliani presidency, he said: "It's going to be almost like having a Floridian in the White House."

If that seemed fanciful, Giuliani had the benefit of having a professional actor in his entourage. "This is great!" Voight said, after taking the stage in St. Petersburg and finding a crowd that would fit in a living room. When an even smaller audience greeted Giuliani in Fort Myers, Voight pronounced: "This is like the Beatles or something."

But when they returned to the campaign plane between stops Monday, reporters found in each of their seats a baseball autographed by the candidate. For the death-watch crowd, it had the look of a parting gift.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jan, 2008 03:56 pm
Quote:
When an even smaller audience greeted Giuliani in Fort Myers, Voight pronounced: "This is like the Beatles or something."


Laughing

Can't imagine that he won't drop out after tonight... but who knows.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jan, 2008 03:56 pm
Quote:
STRAIGHT TALK EXPRESS REROUTED

John McCain hosted an economic roundtable yesterday in Orlando with prominent Florida business leaders to discuss his plan to cut taxes, federal spending and regulation in order to change the economic tide in the country. The economy is clearly the top subject on the mind of voters here with less than a week to go before the primary, and McCain's talk focused in large part on his pledge to make the Bush tax cuts permanent.

It's a curious move from a senator who just a few years ago was a leading critic of the cuts. From his April 11, 2004 appearance on Meet the Press:

    I voted against the tax cuts because of the disproportionate amount that went to the wealthiest Americans. I would clearly support not extending those tax cuts in order to help address the deficit.
I'm pretty sure nothing about those tax cuts has changed in the past four years, so perhaps it's the "Maverick" who has rotated his stance in order to better his chance of winning the Republican nomination. And as the economy seems to shape the race here more and more with each passing day, it'll be interesting to see what the candidates come out with next.

-- Posted by Kate Sheppard on January 24, 2008
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jan, 2008 04:04 pm
Duncan Hunter? Remember him?

Quote:
Former Rival, Hunter, Endorses Huckabee

Fox News
Embeds
January 23rd, 2008

Mike Huckabee got a welcomed endorsement today from one of his former rivals for the GOP nod to the White House. Rep.Duncan Hunter (R-CA) endorsed Huckabee, citing his"outstanding character and integrity."

" I got to know Governor Hukcabee well on the campaign trail, "said Hunter in a press statement." Of the remaining candidates I feel that he is strongly committed to strengthening national defense, constructing the border fence and meeting the challenge of China's emergence as a military superpower."

Hunter said one other quality compelled him to endorse the Iowa caucus winner.

"Mike Huckabee is a man of outstanding character and integrity. I saw that character over the last year of campaigning and was greatly impressed, " Hunter continues." The other Republican candidates have many strengths and I wish them all well. My personal choice is Mike Huckabee."

Huckabee in a statement provided by the campaign said that he was "honored" to have Hunter's support.

"Over the past year, I have come to admire him on a personal and professional level," Huckabee said." We share many of the same positions on the military and immigration.I look forward to having his support as our campaign continues to surge ahead to Super Tuesday and beyond."

Statement from Huckabee Campaign on Hunter Endorsement

    " Former Arkansas Governor and Republican Presidential Candidate Mike Huckabee accepted the endorsement of Congressman Duncan Hunter, the former Chairman of the House Armed Services Committee who withdrew from the Presidential race earlier this week. Huckabee stated, "I'm honored to have Duncan Hunter's support. Over the past year, I have come to admire him on a personal and professional level. We share many of the same positions on the military and immigration. I look forward to having his support as our campaign continues to surge ahead to Super Tuesday and beyond." "I got to know Governor Huckabee well on the campaign trail. Of the remaining candidates, I feel that he is strongly committed to strengthening national defense, constructing the border fence and meeting the challenge of China's emergence as a military superpower that is taking large portions of America's industrial base," said Congressman Hunter. Hunter continued, "Mike Huckabee is a man of outstanding character and integrity. I saw that character over the last year of campaigning and was greatly impressed. The other Republican candidates have many strengths and I wish them all well. My personal choice is Mike Huckabee." Huckabee called on Hunter's supporters as well as those of former Senator Fred Thompson who also withdrew from the race, to join his campaign. "As a true authentic conservative, I have a vision to bring hope, opportunity and prosperity to all Americans, and I welcome their support,"Huckabee said.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jan, 2008 06:32 pm
Some comic relief...

Mitt Romney's idea of bonding with black kids on MLK Day is going, "Who let the dogs out, whoo whoo!" Shocked Confused Laughing

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/7629/romneywholetthedogsoutix4.png
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jan, 2008 07:03 pm
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Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jan, 2008 08:06 pm
Rudy's done....a distant third so far with about 50% reporting.


Chatter of him endorsing McCain is beginning to circulate.
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maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jan, 2008 08:10 pm
I saw that Romney clip on A Daily Show last night. I couldn't believe he said that.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jan, 2008 09:54 pm
Oh, that lovable, moderate, independent-minded John McCain, the Republican that even a liberal can trust!

..or perhaps not..

Quote:
John McCain launched perhaps the toughest robocall yet here this afternoon, using a woman's voice to attack Romney on abortion and gay rights and to claim he has treated "social issues voters as fools."

The call, and audio file of which was shared by a Brevard County Republican and confirmed by McCain's campaign as their own, is portrayed as a social conservative expressing concern about Romney. [..] Full message after the jump.

    "I'm calling with an urgent Mitt Romeny [unintelligible]" "We care deeply about traditional values and protecting families. And we need someone who will not waver in the White House: Ending abortion, preserving the sanctity of marriage, stopping the trash on the airwaves and attempts to ban God from every corner of society. These issues are core to our being. "Mitt Romney thinks he can fool us. He supported abortion on demand, even allowed a law mandating taxpayer-funding for abortion. He says he changed his mind, but he still hasn't changed the law. He told gay organizers in Massachusetts he would be a stronger advocate for special rights than even Ted Kennedy. Now, it's something different. "Unfortunately, on issue after issue Mitt Romney has treated social issues voters as fools, thinking we won't catch on. Sorry, Mitt, we know you aren't trustworthy on the most important issue and you aren't a conservative "Paid for by John McCain 2008.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jan, 2008 10:10 pm
So who is the LGBT candidate, nimh?
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jan, 2008 08:18 am
Quote:
January 30, 2008
McCain May Win, Romney Can't
By Dick Morris


Some may agree with Sen. John McCain's (R-Ariz.) positions on his myriad of causes and enthusiasms. Others may embrace Mitt Romney's record as governor and his experience in business. But one fact remains pre-eminent -- McCain has a much better chance of winning the election than does former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney (R).

If you feel confident, for some unknown reason, in a Republican victory, it is possible that either candidate could win. If you feel the nation is aching for a Democrat, as I do, then the importance of choosing the strongest candidate fades a bit.

But any rational observer has to conclude that John McCain has a better shot of winning than Mitt Romney does.

And, if a failure to win means the election of Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.), the stakes are too high to ignore the issue of political practicality in making a choice.

Perhaps because he is better known, the Arizona senator ties Hillary in the match-ups while Romney trails by up to 12 points.

But the real difference is not in their current polling performance, but in their future potential as November candidates.

Because of his immigration position -- the same one that has so fouled his relationship with the Republican right -- McCain has a very good shot at winning a lot of Hispanic votes. While the Clintons have always had a genuine, if now faded, popularity with blacks, they have never been able to boast of a strong Latino base. Partially because of Bill's pardon of the FALN terrorists, Hillary swept the Puerto Rican vote in New York state in 2000, but she has no special appeal to bring to a genuine battle for their support. Romney's hard-line immigration position will leave Latinos cold.

But McCain has a chance with them.

The bitterness of the Democratic contest leaves open the possibility of massive defections from Hillary should she be the candidate, both among blacks and whites. There will be legions of disappointed young voters if Obama eventually loses to the race-baiting Clinton machine.

McCain's record offers much to attract these disaffected Democrats and independents. His ability to win independents where they are permitted to vote in Republican primaries attests to his appeal to swing voters.

McCain's co-sponsorship with Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.) of legislation to prevent global warming, his opposition to torture or waterboarding in terrorist interrogations, his support for campaign finance reform, his backing for regulation of tobacco by the Food and Drug Administration, his suggestion of serious corporate governance reforms in the wake of the Enron scandal, and his crusade against earmarking by Congress all put him squarely in position to win disaffected moderates, Democrats, and independents.

He clearly would dominate the national security issue as the Republican nominee in a way that Romney, without the relevant experience, could never do. Particularly in opposing a female liberal candidate amid a global war against terror that could heat up at any moment, this is no inconsiderable advantage.

Hillary's phony experience argument, which she could still maintain vis-à-vis Romney, would be hollow against McCain. And while Obama could point to a significant gap in their ages, Clinton, only 10 years his junior, could not effectively make age an issue against McCain.

Obviously, McCain's strong support for the war in Iraq would be a point of contention and vulnerability in a general election against Clinton. But his support of the surge, and its evident effectiveness in reducing combat casualties, might well give him the better of the argument in front of a moderate general electorate.

It is only on the economy that McCain has a self-proclaimed (if inadvisably so) weakness. But Hillary would be overreaching dramatically if she claimed special expertise on this issue merely through the osmosis that she claims to be a feature of living in the White House. Her tax increase proposals, particularly her support for a higher capital gains tax, can be painted, accurately, as foreshadowing doom for the economy. Neither Hillary nor McCain can claim the economy as an especial preserve.

Can Romney? Inexplicably, the McCain campaign has not spoken of the layoffs that must have accompanied Romney's efforts to "turn around" failing companies. Hedge funds are notorious for cutting jobs and the Clintons will make Mitt eat every single one. McCain has no such vulnerability and, hopefully, will make Romney's layoffs an issue before Super Tuesday.

So McCain can win and Romney won't. That's the long and the short of it.
0 Replies
 
 

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