2
   

Information control, or, How to get to Orwellian governance

 
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Apr, 2007 06:04 am
okie wrote
Quote:
ican, rest assured that some of us still use logic


um...and demorgan's theorem goes how, as you boys recall it from your logic studies?
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Apr, 2007 07:55 pm
dyslexia wrote:
So ican, you post indicates you read books by and about George Soros, is that true?

Yes!
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Apr, 2007 08:06 pm
plainoldme wrote:
ican711nm wrote:
Some who lack evidence or logic to rebut an argument, villify the arguer. Some others who lack evidence or logic to rebut an argument, try to get some or use some.



Well, ican, the only person villifying you is yourself. As for that second sentence, well, its a doozy. Would be nice if it made sense, but, it doesn't.

Claiming I'm villifying myself is equivalent to villifying me. Rebut my arguments if youcan.

Some others who in their previous statements lack evidence or logic to rebut an argument, try to get some evidence or use some logic to rebut an argument.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Apr, 2007 08:25 pm
plainoldme wrote:
blatham -- Your last post made me laugh out loud. Another person more happy than they were when they sat down at the computer.

I wonder what ican does for a living? I wonder how his coworkers receive him?

I , ican, am semi-retired. I live to fly and fly to live. My fellow aviators come to me and pay me for periodic instruction required by the FAA. Would be aviators come to me and pay me for instruction required by the FAA to become aviators.

When in disagreement with our fellow aviators and aviator students we use facts and logic to rebut each others arguments. We do that to help each other fly safer. We recognize that prompt detection and prompt initiation of correction of our errors is necessary for our survival.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Apr, 2007 09:05 pm
blatham wrote:
okie wrote
Quote:
ican, rest assured that some of us still use logic


um...and demorgan's theorem goes how, as you boys recall it from your logic studies?


The De Morgan Theorems

Let a conjunction = AND = &; a disjunction = OR = +; a negation = NOT = ~; a first argument = p; and a second argument = q.

I. The negation of a conjunction is equivalent to the disjunction of the negated arguments.

For example:

~(p & q) = (~p + ~q);

~(~p & ~q) = (p + q).

II. The negation of a disjunction is equivalent to the conjunction of the negated arguments.

For example:

~(p + q) = (~p & ~q);

~(~p + ~q) = (p & q).

The remaining combinations are left as exercises for the student blatham. :wink:
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Apr, 2007 08:37 am
A logician of fine parts, I see.

But I confess to deep envy regarding the hours you spend in the air. I've never been up in anything at any altitude which wasn't a sheer delight for me. I would, I think, happily give up the ability to type in exchange for the ability to flap.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 May, 2007 04:25 pm
blatham wrote:
A logician of fine parts, I see.

But I confess to deep envy regarding the hours you spend in the air. I've never been up in anything at any altitude which wasn't a sheer delight for me. I would, I think, happily give up the ability to type in exchange for the ability to flap.

Hmmm!

Just how happy would you like to be, for example?

In your fourties, ...

Step 1: Private Pilot
Step 2: Instrument Pilot
Step 3: Commercial Pilot Single and Multiengine
Step 4: Certified Flight Instructor
Step 5: Certified Flight Instructor Instrument
Step 6: Buy your own Cessna 172 and instruct in it
Step 7: Use your instructor fees to finance your flying and pay your training debts
Step 8. Start your own charter service ...

Make your charter service grow and prosper and eventually get to the point where it can pay the debt service for your own charter jet.

Continue until you no longer can walk! Smile
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 May, 2007 04:33 pm
Now if you could only learn to keep your nose up and avoid dead reckoning. (you go over the mountains, not though them)
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 May, 2007 04:34 pm
ican711nm wrote:


Well, ican, the only person villifying you is yourself. As for that second sentence, well, its a doozy. Would be nice if it made sense, but, it doesn't.

Claiming I'm villifying myself is equivalent to villifying me. Rebut my arguments if youcan.
.[/quote]

Solipism.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 May, 2007 08:29 pm
dyslexia wrote:
Now if you could only learn to keep your nose up and avoid dead reckoning. (you go over the mountains, not though them)

valleys work!
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 May, 2007 09:23 pm
plainoldme wrote:


Well, ican, the only person villifying you is yourself.
...
ican711nm wrote:
Claiming I'm villifying myself is equivalent to villifying me. Rebut my arguments if youcan.


Solipism.

Question Rolling Eyes Question
Quote:

www.m-w.com
Main Entry: so·lip·sism
Pronunciation: 'sO-l&p-"si-z&m, 'sä-
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin solus alone + ipse self
: a theory holding that the self can know nothing but its own modifications and that the self is the only existent thing; also : extreme egocentrism
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 May, 2007 03:09 am
ican711nm wrote:
blatham wrote:
A logician of fine parts, I see.

But I confess to deep envy regarding the hours you spend in the air. I've never been up in anything at any altitude which wasn't a sheer delight for me. I would, I think, happily give up the ability to type in exchange for the ability to flap.

Hmmm!

Just how happy would you like to be, for example?

In your fourties, ...

Step 1: Private Pilot
Step 2: Instrument Pilot
Step 3: Commercial Pilot Single and Multiengine
Step 4: Certified Flight Instructor
Step 5: Certified Flight Instructor Instrument
Step 6: Buy your own Cessna 172 and instruct in it
Step 7: Use your instructor fees to finance your flying and pay your training debts
Step 8. Start your own charter service ...

Make your charter service grow and prosper and eventually get to the point where it can pay the debt service for your own charter jet.

Continue until you no longer can walk! Smile


An orderly, productive plan. Congratulations.

The father of a childhood friend of mine trained as a pilot for the Canadian Air Force in WW2. On a target-practice training flight one afternoon (the target was a large bag released by tow-plane and inflated a la a parachute) he managed to put a single round into the target. Even a single round hitting the target was an unusual achievement. But in this case, my friend's father really lucked out and hit with his round before the target had inflated. It was still folded. He scored something like 64 and got medals.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 May, 2007 03:11 am
And ps

Rupert Murdoch is trying now to take over Dow Jones, including the Wall Street Journal.

We love free enterprise because it is the way to truth and to broad happiness for all.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 May, 2007 03:37 pm
blatham wrote:
And ps

Rupert Murdoch is trying now to take over Dow Jones, including the Wall Street Journal.

We love free enterprise because it is the way to truth and to broad happiness for all.

Free enterprise is the way to make money and not provide "the way to truth and broad happiness."

Government is the way to limit us and not provide "the way to truth and broad happiness."

Life is cruel except when you fly, because flying is "the way to truth and broad happiness." Smile

Government wants to profit from telling us what to do. Crying or Very sad

Rupert Murdoch wants to profit from telling us what he opines has been done. Cool

George Soros and his gang want to profit from telling us what to do and telling us what they opine has been done. Mad

Ruppert Murdoch is tolerable as long as he sticks with telling us what he opines government and George Soros and his gang have actually done. :wink:
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 May, 2007 03:57 am
Some of you may have noticed the recent rise of the Politico web-based news site. Alongside the web activity, it includes frequent appearances on tv political shows (all networks) of the Politico's pundits. MSNBC apparently now has some partnering arrangement with Politico.

Glenn Greenwald at Salon and the folks at Media Matters have been noting for several months instances where Politico and Drudge can be seen to have some sort of synchronicity but that's still unclear.

Greenwald today has some really interesting data on the ownership of Politico...
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 May, 2007 11:37 am
blatham wrote:
Some of you may have noticed the recent rise of the Politico web-based news site. Alongside the web activity, it includes frequent appearances on tv political shows (all networks) of the Politico's pundits. MSNBC apparently now has some partnering arrangement with Politico.

Glenn Greenwald at Salon and the folks at Media Matters have been noting for several months instances where Politico and Drudge can be seen to have some sort of synchronicity but that's still unclear.

Greenwald today has some really interesting data on the ownership of Politico...
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/

These excerpts appears to me to be departures from reality:
Quote:
Finally, please keep in mind that if you are a critic of the media and believe our political press is dysfunctional and broken to its core, that is only because you are a partisan and don't understand the important and elevated role journalists play. There is no other reason why you would be so critical of our national press other than the fact that you are angry because they're not more partisan.

Quote:
So, if we look at the media today, we ought to be aware not just of what we are getting, but what we are not getting; the difference between what is authentic and what is inauthentic in contemporary American life and in the world, with a warning that in this celebrity culture, the forces of the inauthentic are becoming more powerful all the time.

And that's to say nothing of the fact that our new objective, widely celebrated news organization is owned and operated by hard-core right-wing ideologues.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 May, 2007 01:03 pm
Let's see. A couple of Italian ne'er do wells created a faux document in order to make money.

The document said that Saddam Hussein attempted to purchase yellow cake uranium from the African nation of Niger.

The US government -- which had its panties in a knot to murder Saddam -- asked the British government if the document was genuwine. The Brits said it was so the US sent its favorite talking heads, including spokespresident bush, to announce the news to the American public. Condi Rice added the image of a mushroom-shaped cloud.

The French immediately saw the document for what it was, a hoax. They refused to participate in this nonsense, but the US govt did not explain how the French viewed the faux document.

We went to war over a document created by some thugs in Italy.

Sounds Orwellian to me.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 May, 2007 01:53 pm
pom, This scenario goes way beyond Orwellian, just because the president's men/women became puppets of a leader with no brains overnight.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 May, 2007 02:10 pm
A little more than a week ago, David Halberstam was killed in an auto accident. Here's something he wrote 8 years ago on trends in media news coverage.

Quote:
Media not living up to their potential
By David Halberstam
Published November 07, 1999

http://www.jimlaurie.com/articles/david.htm
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 May, 2007 06:03 pm
plainoldme wrote:
Let's see. A couple of Italian ne'er do wells created a faux document in order to make money.

...

We went to war over a document created by some thugs in Italy.

Sounds Orwellian to me.

Your distortion of reality sounds Orwellian to me.
Of the 23 "Whereases" (i.e., reasons) given by the USA Congress for its October 16, 2002 resolution, 13 were subsequently proven true. The remaining 10 were subsequently proven false.

All 23 of the reasons are numbered by me in brackets. The 13 reasons subsequently proven true are: 1, 2, 7, 9, 10, 11, 16, 17, 18, 20, 21, 22, 23. The 10 reasons subsequently proven false in one or more respects are: 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 12, 13, 14, 15, 19.

Please note, that underlined reasons 10 and 11 are each independently sufficient and independently proven reasons for invading Iraq.

www.c-span.org/resources/pdf/hjres114.pdf
Congress wrote:
Public Law 107-243 107th Congress Joint Resolution Oct. 16, 2002 (H.J. Res. 114) To authorize the use of United States Armed Forces against Iraq

[1:TRUE] Whereas in 1990 in response to Iraq's war of aggression against and illegal occupation of Kuwait, the United States forged a coalition of nations to liberate Kuwait and its people in order to defend the national security of the United States and enforce United Nations Security Council resolutions relating to Iraq;

[2: TRUE] Whereas after the liberation of Kuwait in 1991, Iraq entered into a United Nations sponsored cease-fire agreement pursuant to which Iraq unequivocally agreed, among other things, to eliminate its nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons programs and the means to deliver and develop them, and to end its support for international terrorism;

[3: FALSE] Whereas the efforts of international weapons inspectors, United States intelligence agencies, and Iraqi defectors led to the discovery that Iraq had large stockpiles of chemical weapons and a large scale biological weapons program, and that Iraq had an advanced nuclear weapons development program that was much closer to producing a nuclear weapon than intelligence reporting had previously indicated;

[4: FALSE] Whereas Iraq, in direct and flagrant violation of the cease-fire, attempted to thwart the efforts of weapons inspectors to identify and destroy Iraq's weapons of mass destruction stockpiles and development capabilities, which finally resulted in the withdrawal of inspectors from Iraq on October 31, 1998;

[5: FALSE] Whereas in Public Law 105-235 (August 14, 1998), Congress concluded that Iraq's continuing weapons of mass destruction programs threatened vital United States interests and international peace and security, declared Iraq to be in `material and unacceptable breach of its international obligations' and urged the President `to take appropriate action, in accordance with the Constitution and relevant laws of the United States, to bring Iraq into compliance with its international obligations';

[6: FALSE] Whereas Iraq both poses a continuing threat to the national security of the United States and international peace and security in the Persian Gulf region and remains in material and unacceptable breach of its international obligations by, among other things, continuing to possess and develop a significant chemical and biological weapons capability, actively seeking a nuclear weapons capability, and supporting and harboring terrorist organizations;

[7: TRUE] Whereas Iraq persists in violating resolution of the United Nations Security Council by continuing to engage in brutal repression of its civilian population thereby threatening international peace and security in the region, by refusing to release, repatriate, or account for non-Iraqi citizens wrongfully detained by Iraq, including an American serviceman, and by failing to return property wrongfully seized by Iraq from Kuwait;

[8: FALSE] Whereas the current Iraqi regime has demonstrated its capability and willingness to use weapons of mass destruction against other nations and its own people;

[9:TRUE] Whereas the current Iraqi regime has demonstrated its continuing hostility toward, and willingness to attack, the United States, including by attempting in 1993 to assassinate former President Bush and by firing on many thousands of occasions on United States and Coalition Armed Forces engaged in enforcing the resolutions of the United Nations Security Council;

[10:TRUE] Whereas members of al Qaida, an organization bearing responsibility for attacks on the United States, its citizens, and interests, including the attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, are known to be in Iraq;

[11:TRUE] Whereas Iraq continues to aid and harbor other international terrorist organizations, including organizations that threaten the lives and safety of United States citizens;

[12: FALSE] Whereas the attacks on the United States of September 11, 2001, underscored the gravity of the threat posed by the acquisition of weapons of mass destruction by international terrorist organizations;

[13: FALSE] Whereas Iraq's demonstrated capability and willingness to use weapons of mass destruction, the risk that the current Iraqi regime will either employ those weapons to launch a surprise attack against the United States or its Armed Forces or provide them to international terrorists who would do so, and the extreme magnitude of harm that would result to the United States and its citizens from such an attack, combine to justify action by the United States to defend itself;

[14: FALSE] Whereas United Nations Security Council Resolution 678 (1990) authorizes the use of all necessary means to enforce United Nations Security Council Resolution 660 (1990) and subsequent relevant resolutions and to compel Iraq to cease certain activities that threaten international peace and security, including the development of weapons of mass destruction and refusal or obstruction of United Nations weapons inspections in violation of United Nations Security Council Resolution 687 (1991), repression of its civilian population in violation of United Nations Security Council Resolution 688 (1991), and threatening its neighbors or United Nations operations in Iraq in violation of United Nations Security Council Resolution 949 (1994);

[15: FALSE] Whereas in the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution (Public Law 102-1), Congress has authorized the President `to use United States Armed Forces pursuant to United Nations Security Council Resolution 678 (1990) in order to achieve implementation of Security Council Resolution 660, 661, 662, 664, 665, 666, 667, 669, 670, 674, and 677;

[16:TRUE] Whereas in December 1991, Congress expressed its sense that it supports the use of all necessary means to achieve the goals of United Nations Security Council Resolution 687 as being consistent with the Authorization of Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution (Public Law 102-1),' that Iraq's repression of its civilian population violates United Nations Security Council Resolution 688 and `constitutes a continuing threat to the peace, security, and stability of the Persian Gulf region,' and that Congress, `supports the use of all necessary means to achieve the goals of United Nations Security Council Resolution 688';

[17:TRUE] Whereas the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 (Public Law 105-338) expressed the sense of Congress that it should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove from power the current Iraqi regime and promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime;

[18:TRUE] Whereas on September 12, 2002, President Bush committed the United States to `work with the United Nations Security Council to meet our common challenge' posed by Iraq and to `work for the necessary resolutions,' while also making clear that `the Security Council resolutions will be enforced, and the just demands of peace and security will be met, or action will be unavoidable';

[19: FALSE] Whereas the United States is determined to prosecute the war on terrorism and Iraq's ongoing support for international terrorist groups combined with its development of weapons of mass destruction in direct violation of its obligations under the 1991 cease-fire and other United Nations Security Council resolutions make clear that it is in the national security interests of the United States and in furtherance of the war on terrorism that all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions be enforced, including through the use of force if necessary;

[20:TRUE] Whereas Congress has taken steps to pursue vigorously the war on terrorism through the provision of authorities and funding requested by the President to take the necessary actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations, or persons who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such persons or organizations;

[21:TRUE] Whereas the President and Congress are determined to continue to take all appropriate actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations, or persons who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such persons or organizations;

[22:TRUE] Whereas the President has authority under the Constitution to take action in order to deter and prevent acts of international terrorism against the United States, as Congress recognized in the joint resolution on Authorization for Use of Military Force (Public Law 107-40); and,

[23:TRUE] Whereas it is in the national security interests of the United States to restore international peace and security to the Persian Gulf region:

Now therefore be it, Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, Authorization for use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002. 50 USC 1541 note.
0 Replies
 
 

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