1
   

If you Like Your Freedoms, Thank a Protestor

 
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Feb, 2006 05:21 pm
Roxxxanne wrote:
Mysteryman is wrong. There is a constitutional right to be heard. It is called Freedom of the Press. Where do you guys come up with such nonsense? It is amazing.


OK,
Where does the press have the "right to be heard"?
Are you saying that I have to listen to Air America,because they are the "press"?
If thats so,then you HAVE to listen to Rush,Sean Hannity,Bill Oreilly,and every other right wing pundit,because they are also the "press".

Do you listen to them?
If you dont,arent you violating their "right to be heard"?

But,to refresh your memory,here is what the constitution says about the press...


Amendment I - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

THats from here...
http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#Am1

So,please show where it says the press has a "right" to be heard.
Again,they can say or print whatever they want,but nobody has to pay any attention to them.

So,I say again,there is no "right" to be heard.
0 Replies
 
Asherman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Feb, 2006 06:10 pm
Thank you protestors for your contribution to making America free:

Very Happy Colonial Torries who protested separation from Britain, and who expressed their protest by engaging in a bloody civil war.
Very Happy Those Anti-Federalists who viewed the Constitution as a betrayal of the Revolution.
Very Happy The farmers who protested the Federal excise tax on their home-brewed whisky.
Very Happy All those who protested that the Louisiana Purchase was illegal.
Very Happy The War Hawks whose protests got us into the War of 1812.
Very Happy Those great patriots who threatened State Nullification of Federal laws they didn't agree with.
Very Happy The Southern homesteaders and plantation owners who protested that Indians should be removed "somewhere West of the Mississippi".
Very Happy The Know-Nothings who protested against the Catholics and Masonic affiliation of immigrants.
T Very Happy he protests against the Mexican War that added great parts of the American Southwest and California to the United States.
Very Happy All of the protesters and counter-protesters who made Kansas bleed.
Very Happy The New Yorkers who rioted rather than serve in the Union Army during the Civil War.
Very Happy Democrats and Copperheads whose protests against Lincoln and the Union cause found expression in espionage, sabotage and other traitorous activities.
Very Happy Without the protests against Chinese gold prospecting and labor, California may have turned into a Chinese colony.
Very Happy Those glorious Knights of the Ku Klux Klan who protested civil rights for over a hundred years by spreading terror from beneath sheets.
Very Happy Jesse James who stole from the rich Yankees to protect the downtrodden rebel sod-busters of the plains.
Very Happy All those who insisted that the U.S. should leave the newly liberated Philippine Islands to be colonized by the Japanese or European powers.
Very Happy Our liberty was greatly advanced by public protests against sending General Pershing in pursuit of Pancho Villa, after Villa's surprise attack into New Mexico.
Very Happy The American Peace Movement should be lauded for its efforts to keep us out of the Great War.
Very Happy The American Communist Party who supported and fomented labor unrest solely out of their concern from Liberty.
Very Happy Lets not forget protests by citizen's groups, especially in California, when refugees from the Dust Bowl started arriving in sizable numbers.
Very Happy The Bonus Marchers saved democracy and gave Gen. McArthur experience in riot dispersal during the Depression.
Very Happy We owe a great debt to all those intrepid protesters of American policy who supported Mussolini, Hitler and Stalin in their efforts to bring about world peace.
Very Happy I t was a great humanitarian service of various Los Alamos scientists to help the Soviet Union develop nuclear weapons as a protest against the Imperialistic Capitalist West.
Very Happy Thank you Hanoi Jane for bringing a ray of sunshine into the lives of so many of our POWs.
0 Replies
 
Amigo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Feb, 2006 06:40 pm
Very Happy Lets not forget the Boston tea party.
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Feb, 2006 06:43 pm
Crying or Very sad I wish we would have had more protesters, at one point in our history....
0 Replies
 
Amigo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Feb, 2006 07:22 pm
http://www.estatevaults.com/lm/%20%20apple%20computer%20Rosa%20Parks.jpg


Rosa Parks, the "mother of the civil rights movement" was one of the most important citizens of the 20th century. Mrs. Parks was a seamstress in Montgomery, Alabama when, in December of 1955, she refused to give up her seat on a city bus to a white passenger. The bus driver had her arrested. She was tried and convicted of violating a local ordinance.


"Our mistreatment was just not right, and I was tired of it," writes Parks in her recent book, Quiet Strength, (ZondervanPublishingHouse, 1994). "I kept thinking about my mother and my grandparents, and how strong they were. I knew there was a possibility of being mistreated, but an opportunity was being given to me to do what I had asked of others."
0 Replies
 
pachelbel
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Feb, 2006 09:59 pm
"Of course the people don't want war. But after all,
it's the leaders of the country who determine the
policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the
people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist
dictatorship, a parliament, or a communist
dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always
be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is
easy. All you have to do ias tell them they are being
attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of
patriotism and exposing the country to greater danger.
It works the same way in any country." Hermann Goering
at Nuremberg.
************************

Sound familiar? History repeating itself, again. If everyone sits on their butts and does nothing, what do you think the outcome will be? Nazi America? Protestors have the right and the moral obligation to denounce their government, when that government is leading them down the wrong path. Once you remove protestors to an area where they cannot be heard by those in power, you effectively remove the right to freedom of speech. The leaders in America know exactly what they are doing; they've had the example from Nazi Germany. The Patriot Guard Riders are the new Storm Troopers. Same stuff. Different century.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Feb, 2006 07:41 am
McGentrix wrote:
They listen at election time. If enough people want change, change will happen.

The vocal minority gets owned by the silent majority though. I think it was Mysteryman that said "you don't have a right to be heard."


Ah, but but political parties make promises at election time. Which are often promptly forgotten, once they're in office! (Like governing "for all the people", not just their party faithful. Ha!)
I don't know about this notion of a vocal minority being owned by the silent majority, though. Why should politically active folk be dictated to by the apathetic? And why should it be assumed that "the silent majority" automatically support the status quo? Who can actually know what they think? Maybe they don't even think about politics at all.
0 Replies
 
Amigo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Feb, 2006 12:05 pm
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/images/0104-02.jpg

'Marlboro Man' Turns Against War He Symbolised
By Andrew Buncombe
The Independent UK

Thursday 02 February 2006

A cigarette hung from his mouth in the manner of John Wayne or Humphrey Bogart, his grime-covered face showed the exhaustion of battle.

This image of US Marine Lance-Corporal Blake Miller, taken during the battle of Fallujah, instantly captured the public imagination and for a while he was known simply as Marlboro Man.

But 15 month after that photograph appeared in more than 100 US newspapers, the 21-year-old is back from Iraq, back on civvy street and he is talking about the trauma of what he experienced and the scars he still bears, physical and mental. The once unquestioning Marine is now also questioning whether US forces should be in Iraq.

The mental health experts who are treating him call his condition post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) but Mr Miller describes it in more immediate language: nightmares, sleeplessness and periods when he will "blank out", not knowing where he is or what he is doing. "I could tell you stories about Iraq that would make the hair stand up on the back of your neck," he said. "And I could tell you things that were great over there. But that would still not tell you what it was actually like. You had to be there and go through it to really understand."

Mr Miller is not alone. The federal Veterans Affairs (VA) department revealed last week that up to a third of US troops returning from Iraq or Afghanistan - about 40,000 - suffer mental health problems. It is to spend an extra $29m (£16.3m) on troops who have PTSD. Days ago, The Independent reported the suicide of another veteran of the Iraq war, Doug Barber, a National Guardsman who took his life after struggling with his experiences of the war after he returned to civilian life.

Mr Miller, who received an honourable discharge last November after military psychologists decided he would be a threat to himself or his colleagues if he continued to serve, said there remained a stigma about mental health issues. He told Knight Ridder Newspapers: "I want people to know that PTSD is not something people come down with because they are crazy. It's an anxiety disorder, where you've experienced something so traumatic that you're close to death." Mr Miller's photograph was taken in November 2004 during the battle for Fallujah, the insurgent stronghold. The two-week operation resulted in the deaths of up to 50 US troops, an estimated 1,200 insurgents and an unknown number of civilians.

The former Marine says he now questions the US tactics and believes troops should have been withdrawn some time ago. He said: "When I was in the service my opinion was whatever the Commander-in-Chief's opinion was. But after I got out, I started to think about it. The biggest question I have now is how you can make a war on an entire country when a certain group from that country is practising terrorism against you. It's as if a gang from New York went to Iraq and blew some stuff up and Iraq started a war against us because of that."

Mr Miller's image was captured by the Los Angeles Times photographer Luis Sinco. At the time, he smoked five packs a day. Now, recently married and looking to make a fresh start, he has cut down to just one.
0 Replies
 
pachelbel
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Feb, 2006 08:09 pm
"The former Marine says he now questions the US tactics and believes troops should have been withdrawn some time ago. He said: "When I was in the service my opinion was whatever the Commander-in-Chief's opinion was. But after I got out, I started to think about it. The biggest question I have now is how you can make a war on an entire country when a certain group from that country is practising terrorism against you. It's as if a gang from New York went to Iraq and blew some stuff up and Iraq started a war against us because of that."

RIGHT ON. Even soldiers are questioning the Great Bush. Guess that's what happens when you listen to a talking Bush.....
0 Replies
 
pachelbel
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Mar, 2006 07:13 pm
Peaceful Protesting Not Allowed in US
Seven Arrested at White House Protest against Iraq War

by Mike Ferner

WASHINGTON - In a civil disobedience protest against the war in Iraq, seven peace activists were arrested yesterday holding a banner that read, "God Forgive America" in front of the White House.


"Winter of Our Discontent" protesters that were arrested in civil disobedience action at the White House 2/27/06. From left: Elton Davis, Bernie Meyer, Ed Bloomer, Eileen Hansen, a supporter who did not get arrested (holding banner on left), David Goodner, Brian Terrell, Jeff Leys
(Photo: Mike Ferner)

Brian Terrell, Ed Bloomer, and Elton Davis, all from Catholic Worker communities in the Des Moines, Iowa area, David Goodner, University of Iowa student, Eileen Hansen, a Catholic Worker from the Winona, Minnesota, Jeff Leys, co-coordinator of Voices for Creative Nonviolence (VCNV), and Bernie Meyer, a retired social services worker from Olympia, Washington were arrested by U.S. Park Police.

The seven were charged with the federal misdemeanor of demonstrating without a permit, fined seventy-five dollars, and released yesterday evening. The action was part of VCNV's "Winter of our Discontent" demonstrations in the month leading up to the third anniversary of the U.S. invasion of Iraq on March 20.

Terrell organized the group of 15 from Iowa that included students from Loras College, a hospital worker, and a farmer from Missouri who drove 140 miles to Des Moines to join them.

"If not now, when?" Terrell replied when asked why they drove 20 hours overnight to get arrested in the nation's capital. "Some people consider civil disobedience an extreme measure for extreme times. If these aren't extreme times I don't know what are."

The Maloy, Iowa farmer and Catholic Worker added, "We came here to use two complimentary methods to protest this war. Some of our group are visiting members of Congress, and some are putting our bodies on the line."

Goodner, the 25 year-old Iowa Hawkeye, said his reason was "a deep concern for the plight of the world. I worry where the world is heading when I think of global warming and war. I believe the capitalist model of globalization is the root cause of the institutional problems facing us, and governments aren't going to solve those problems, individuals are."

Bloomer, 58, an Army draftee who served from 1966-68, is also a member of Veterans For Peace. He said he became a Catholic Worker in 1983 when he was active in the Nuclear Freeze movement to stop the spread of atomic weapons, because he agreed with the Worker's approach. "They say if you see something that ain't right, fix it. I see half the world starving without a crust of bread while our resources are going to wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. This is the right thing to do and it's good to show your colors."

The entire group demonstrated on the sidewalk in front of the White House fence, walking slowly with placards and banners for about 30 minutes. The seven who were arrested took their signs to the portion of the fence ruled off-limits to protests where they stood, attracting the attention of Park Police who warned them they risked arrest. When they refused to move, police called in a large team to make the arrests which included six officers on motorcycles, one on horseback, and over a dozen in patrol cars and unmarked vehicles including several command officers, with four Secret Service officers observing. Shocked (For seven people? Is this Gestapo training)?

After police roped off a large, square area in front of the protesters, a lieutenant, speaking through a patrol car loudspeaker, warned the protesters to leave the enclosed portion of the White House sidewalk or risk being arrested. Three warnings later, officers approached the activists and began handcuffing and searching them one at a time. To cheers from supporters and under the eye of dozens of tourists, the protesters were led into a large police wagon and taken away. The whole operation took about 90 minutes.

Last night, Leys said they had been processed, fined, and released later in the day around 5:00 pm.

The former union representative from Milwaukee and three others are participating in a 34-day, liquids-only fast and vigil at the Capitol as part of the Winter of Our Discontent. He noted the fasters are observing the period between February 15, 2003 when millions of people around the world protested the likely U.S. invasion of Iraq, and the date of the invasion, March 20. He added that VCNV plans additional protests in Washington and elsewhere in the country before March 20.


Rolling Eyes If this is called Freedom of Speech, something is very wrong in America. Crying or Very sad
0 Replies
 
pachelbel
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Mar, 2006 07:17 pm
where is the mysteryman now?
It's the real patriotic Americans who are protesting a loss of their rights, demonstrated here. They were doing nothing wrong, they weren't shouting. The right to assemble is gone.
Sen. Byrd is now saying he wished he had not voted for the Patriot Act which insidiously negated many rights. Check it out online; read for yourself what your friend Bush has done to America.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Mar, 2006 07:17 pm
pachelbel,
Is this the same group of idiots that plan to storm the WH and throw Bush out?
Is this the same group of nitwits that plans to install an interim govt that is
Quote:
comprised of people from Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and all the organizations that have finally made us aware of the truth of the savage practices and illegal policies of our government in assassinating our own officials as well as people throughout the world who oppose their criminal activity
.

I sure hope so,they will be easy targets for the Secret Service and the DC police.
0 Replies
 
pachelbel
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Mar, 2006 07:37 pm
I know who the nitwit is Laughing

and it's no mystery Exclamation Very Happy Very Happy
0 Replies
 
pachelbel
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Mar, 2006 07:41 pm
'Bloomer, 58, an Army draftee who served from 1966-68, is also a member of Veterans For Peace. '

ONE OF THE MEMBERS COMPRISING THE 7. Don't know where you got your stupid quote, but I can see you didn't absorb the article.

Must be a reason why they call you guys jarheads.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Mar, 2006 09:39 pm
pachelbel wrote:
'Bloomer, 58, an Army draftee who served from 1966-68, is also a member of Veterans For Peace. '

ONE OF THE MEMBERS COMPRISING THE 7. Don't know where you got your stupid quote, but I can see you didn't absorb the article.

Must be a reason why they call you guys jarheads.


http://www.unitedforpeace.org/calendar.php?calid=15790

There is where I got the quote.

From the link...

Quote:
The Political Cooperative will put a new, temporary government in place that is comprised of people from Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and all the organizations that have finally made us aware of the truth of the savage practices and illegal policies of our government in assassinating our own officials as well as people throughout the world who oppose their criminal activity.


Read the link,and tell me you actually support this.
0 Replies
 
flushd
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Mar, 2006 10:17 pm
Amigo wrote:
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/images/0104-02.jpg

'Marlboro Man' Turns Against War He Symbolised
By Andrew Buncombe
The Independent UK

Thursday 02 February 2006

A cigarette hung from his mouth in the manner of John Wayne or Humphrey Bogart, his grime-covered face showed the exhaustion of battle.

This image of US Marine Lance-Corporal Blake Miller, taken during the battle of Fallujah, instantly captured the public imagination and for a while he was known simply as Marlboro Man.

But 15 month after that photograph appeared in more than 100 US newspapers, the 21-year-old is back from Iraq, back on civvy street and he is talking about the trauma of what he experienced and the scars he still bears, physical and mental. The once unquestioning Marine is now also questioning whether US forces should be in Iraq.

The mental health experts who are treating him call his condition post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) but Mr Miller describes it in more immediate language: nightmares, sleeplessness and periods when he will "blank out", not knowing where he is or what he is doing. "I could tell you stories about Iraq that would make the hair stand up on the back of your neck," he said. "And I could tell you things that were great over there. But that would still not tell you what it was actually like. You had to be there and go through it to really understand."

Mr Miller is not alone. The federal Veterans Affairs (VA) department revealed last week that up to a third of US troops returning from Iraq or Afghanistan - about 40,000 - suffer mental health problems. It is to spend an extra $29m (£16.3m) on troops who have PTSD. Days ago, The Independent reported the suicide of another veteran of the Iraq war, Doug Barber, a National Guardsman who took his life after struggling with his experiences of the war after he returned to civilian life.

Mr Miller, who received an honourable discharge last November after military psychologists decided he would be a threat to himself or his colleagues if he continued to serve, said there remained a stigma about mental health issues. He told Knight Ridder Newspapers: "I want people to know that PTSD is not something people come down with because they are crazy. It's an anxiety disorder, where you've experienced something so traumatic that you're close to death." Mr Miller's photograph was taken in November 2004 during the battle for Fallujah, the insurgent stronghold. The two-week operation resulted in the deaths of up to 50 US troops, an estimated 1,200 insurgents and an unknown number of civilians.

The former Marine says he now questions the US tactics and believes troops should have been withdrawn some time ago. He said: "When I was in the service my opinion was whatever the Commander-in-Chief's opinion was. But after I got out, I started to think about it. The biggest question I have now is how you can make a war on an entire country when a certain group from that country is practising terrorism against you. It's as if a gang from New York went to Iraq and blew some stuff up and Iraq started a war against us because of that."

Mr Miller's image was captured by the Los Angeles Times photographer Luis Sinco. At the time, he smoked five packs a day. Now, recently married and looking to make a fresh start, he has cut down to just one.


Apparently, we need to hear more stories like this.

This stuff gets me right to the heart. I don't even know how to express it without sounding sentimental.....because it makes my heart bleed.

PTSD is epidemic...and not just with vets..and not just in The United States of America, though there are many walking around suffering without even knowing it, numb and in shock.

Do people really believe that human beings can take part in a war and NOT be changed as individuals, merely come back to their home country, be treated like used garbage, and resume 'a normal life'?.

Something is wrong in our collective consciousness that so many of our fellow human beings are walking around wounded and can not find a safe place to heal.....or worse....are ignored and spit on, told that they are not suffering at all.

Thanks Asherman and Amigo for making something positive out of this thread. I like that the direction was turned to a human level - individuals - and what protest is really about. It's not just a bunch of people shouting or whining(which does happen in the name of protest sometimes).....it's more about the dignified refusal to settle for inhumane treatment. It's bringing light where no one wants to look.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Mar, 2006 10:22 pm
Nicely stated, flushd.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Mar, 2006 10:37 pm
Marlboro Man?


That photo looks like one of a deeply traumatised kid to me.


And I see a lot of deeply traumatised kids.
0 Replies
 
Amigo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Mar, 2006 10:40 pm
http://www.codepinkalert.org/

These chicks are more hardcore then the men. I watched them start from nothing.
0 Replies
 
Amigo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Mar, 2006 03:25 am
What you won't see on American T.V. because they don't want you to. It's the war that isn't happening. So be a good American and get back to the production line.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/avdb/news_web/video/9012da68003dd20/bb/09012da68003deb7_16x9_bb.asx
0 Replies
 
 

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