The 'N word' briefly revisited

that's how it starts. one step at a time. and it ain't always easy, us being humans and all.

I think there are very conflicting ideas about this whole deal.

On one hand we have people throwing it around like it was nothing and that gives credence to the whole "the more you use it the less it means" theory.

On the other hand we have the PC Police making it a hate crime to use it, which, if the other theory is correct, adds to the meaning of the word (ie. it is perceived as a crime hence it is a bad word with a hurtful meaning).

The strange thing is that both ideas seem to have the same goal in sight but have contary ways about getting there. The more one idea prevails, the more damage it does to the other.

it's hard for me to take it seriously as an actual hate crime. first amendment and all that.

in a free society you must tolerate what you don't want to hear as well as applaud what you agree with. not always easy. but necessary to continue the tradition of free speech, imho.

Not that its a problem or anything but this thread didn't have anything to do with the 1st amendment, or hate crimes.

But y'all take this anywhere you want to...

yup, i know snood. i was responding to something in jp's previous post.

good thread idea, btw.

I think this illustrates one of the realizations I've come to that makes me feel kind of hopeless about the whole thing. I think in the sixties when the whole civil rights movement was new and viewed as "necessary" there was a real commitment on the parts of blacks and whites to work together to bring the US out of the dark ages of racial oppression that it was in.

But I think at this point, now, today- whites (in general) feel like, "We've done enough for these people", and blacks no longer trust (with good cause) that whites are interested in working with them to achieve anything else. So there's a war of wills going on-"you tell me what I can't or shouldn't do - and that's exactly what I'm gonna do" (and true on both sides.
This is so sad, because although there's no longer segregation in law, there is in fact, and black people still need whites (who are still the powerful majority in this country) to want to understand their position enough to find it "necessary" to try to change anything else. And at this point, part of what needs to change is attitude. We are still so separate - and as long as we view blacks and whites as separate in this country, we're doing a disservice to everyone. It affects every facet of our society for everyone (except maybe that 4% of the population who make over $l00,000 a year and can afford to live in a gated community and send their kids to private schools).

In terms of the use of this word, I understand blacks saying it to defuse it for themselves, but what they need to understand is what whites are thinking is "See, I told you s/he was a n****, and s/he agrees with me".

I always wondered "what whites are thinking" - just never met anyone who claimed they knew until now.



Just kind of a broad statement, is all.

You're right - too broad - and doesn't even accurately state what I meant to communicate. (That's why I have such trouble being brief - whenever I try to cut down on my words, I always run into problems with clarity).

What I meant to communicate is that there is a certain segment of the white population who might already have a tendency to view blacks unfavorably who will look at blacks who use this terms for themselves as accurately describing themselves with the word as they- bigots -define it.

Then there's another segment of the white population who may not have any negative preconceptions at all about black people, but also have no personal involvement or relationships with any black people or who view them as some interesting but strange breed of "other" (as compared to themselves) who might be confused or influenced negatively upon hearing blacks call themselves this name that they know carries negative connotations.

And then there are other segments of the white population who will respond totally differently than I or anyone else could ever have predicted.

I'm just communicating my own experience. One thing I have learned is that what I (as a white person) hear other white people say about black people and what black people hear white people say about black people is likely to be totally different. Having been in a twenty year relationship with a black person, when he and I compare what statements that people of our own race are willing to say in front of each of us, but not in front of the person of a different race, it's almost never the same. But that's in real life, face to face - not on the internet. This setting seems to allow people space to be more "straightforward" perhaps. Interesting.

By the way - what's your take on T.D. Jakes? I read something that says he's the next big civil rights hope, now that Coretta is gone. I don't know anything about him except the little I've read - haven't heard him speak at all. I'd be interested in your opinion.

I'm not very turned on by evangelical Christianity - and Jakes is almost a cult figure nowadays. He has some pretty common-sense things to say that I like, but he also has a fondness for conservative republicanism that makes me a little nervous.

Any words used to denigrate other people or another person should be offensive to anybody. I am a white woman who regularly comes back with 'nigger' everytime my black colleague calls me 'honky' and we laugh and go have coffee. I could never use either word, however, to or in the presence of anybody who would not understand the banter for the good natured teasing that it is.

Any word can be used to demean and hurt somebody, and just because politically correct words are used and politically incorrect words are avoided does not make a hateful, angry, hurtful, prejudiced person less so when such person targets another.

I'm in Shewolf's camp on this one. The word should not be used when and where it can hurt. But the more it is used in an unhurtful manner, the less power it will have to hurt at all.

Oh, I thought Snood was talking about "neocons" again.

I thought it was a thread about Nipples.

Damn.

LMFAO!!!

For Kicky

I was watching Oprah the other day when I saw that the show was about two families 'changing races'. It featured a black family and white family who switched races by being made-up to look like the opposite.
Oprah made a plug for the "N word". I thought of this thread.
A lot of the same ideas and objections were voiced.

It's a bit of a tangeant; but did anybody else see this? What did you think?

Sorry flushd, I never watch daytime television unless it is Cspan running in the background. No clue re this program.

Saw it - it was interesting. I thought it was typical the kind of denial that the white man was in...

I thought it was interesting too.

hehee snood, I kinda figured you say that.

In all fairness, I think that the white woman was a bit of a nutcase. I mean, the things she was saying would have annoyed me and I'm not black. She simply was out of it. Really.

The show opened up my mind to the actual situation from other points of view, though.

Thanks for starting this thread, snood. I probably wouldn't have thought twice about considering this topic, other than from a reflexive habit, without it. I have the luxury of not having to deal with it day by day. I like to think of myself of someone who this is not an issue with (I am not like them!) but I've reconsidered some of my positions. I can understand how the sense of priveledge you speak of can easily become unconscious, unintentional, and simply not questioned.

I realize I may have made an a-hole out of myself on several occasions when speaking about racial issues, but as someone else pointed out, it is easier to voice your 'real' opinions on-line. Sometimes the results are shocking and ugly, but it is probably best to know that about oneself, otherwise how can one change.

Anyways, I'm gonna actually rent the N word.

Should have done that earlier, eh, before all this commentary?!

Saw Crash tonight. That puts a pretty sharp edge on some of these issues of race. Bloody wonderful screenplay and acting.

just for the sake of conversation, do you think that all white folks are racists, snood ?

and do you think all racists are white ?