Why the Muslims are so angry

cjhsa wrote:

And oh yeah, all us 2nd ammendmend backers are the reason you can still blow on and on about the 1st.

sounds like you're positioning yourself for your 72 virgins... you know, martyr and all....

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Did you even read what I wrote dude or was your purpose simply to bump me off the page?

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The 2nd ammendment was written to protect the 1st.

Fear the politician who fears your gun.

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cjhsa wrote:

The 2nd ammendment [sic]was written to protect the 1st.

No it wasn't.

Quote:

Fear the politician who fears your gun.

I should accept that since you seem to be quite familiar with fear.

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engineer wrote:

... This really isn't free speech, it is hate speech. Protected in Western culture, sure, but hate speech just the same. It is hard to imagine a similar project targeting Christanity or Judaism..

Rubbish. The cartoons illustrated a point of view. One might have thought Muslims would look in the mirror and ask why it is they are seen that way.

Moreover the real bad guys love it. Its just more grist to the mill as far as they are concerned. "See how we are being insulted" they say to the congregations. And they ADD truly scurrillous drawings to the original Danish 12 to stir up feelings even more. (So much for not defaming the Prophet if Danish imams obtain and USE a picture of Mohammed as a pig...)

Its not hard to find examples of Christianity being derided in our press. Its true Judaism is not so frequently attacked because in the UK Jews are defined by their religion and hence it would be racist and illegal. But that does not stop extreme criticism of Zionism. Not so in Muslim countries of course where anti Jewish hate propaganda is commonplace.

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Quote:

UK Jews are defined by their religion and hence it would be racist and illegal. But that does not stop extreme criticism of Zionism. Not so in Muslim countries of course where anti Jewish hate propaganda is commonplace.

What you're all ignoring is the fact that A Jew started all this :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flemming_Rose

Quote:

Rose born 3/14/1956 into a Jewish family in the Ukraine

Hummm...

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It had occurred to me that there are people on both sides who are actively stirring things up.

Before the Iraq war, Bush was so desperate for an excuse to attack that he considered flying an American plane in UN insignia over Iraq to tempt Saddam to shoot it down. In fact Blair shot the idea down.

Its not impossible that some master of the black arts in Washington is right now trying to provoke Iran.

But my point about freedom of speech still stands.

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So it would appear that "freedom of speech" is only acceptable when it is Muslims being made fun of .

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freedom4free wrote:

So it would appear that "freedom of speech" is only acceptable when it is Muslims being made fun of .

No absolutely not. Well not imo anyway. On other threads debating this with nimh and others we (almost) agreed that freedom of speech was an absolute right but had to be excercised responsibly. If the Muslims would just say "ok you have a right to publish these things, but it is deeply deeply hurtful to millions of people"...and leave it at that...the newspaper might even apologise.

But as I said I think there are people who have a vested interest in raising the temperature on both sides. Just WHY they would want to do this is not clear to me.

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cjhsa wrote:

And oh yeah, all us 2nd ammendmend backers are the reason you can still blow on and on about the 1st.

Well, there's predictable and there's predictable. Tying in the NRA point of view whenever possible is your trademark. That and your devotion to Mr. Nugent, who somehow seems to be relevant to every debate you're involved in...

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Steve (as 41oo) wrote:

engineer wrote:
... This really isn't free speech, it is hate speech. Protected in Western culture, sure, but hate speech just the same. It is hard to imagine a similar project targeting Christanity or Judaism..
Rubbish. The cartoons illustrated a point of view. One might have thought Muslims would look in the mirror and ask why it is they are seen that way.

Moreover the real bad guys love it. Its just more grist to the mill as far as they are concerned. "See how we are being insulted" they say to the congregations. And they ADD truly scurrillous drawings to the original Danish 12 to stir up feelings even more. (So much for not defaming the Prophet if Danish imams obtain and USE a picture of Mohammed as a pig...)

Its not hard to find examples of Christianity being derided in our press. Its true Judaism is not so frequently attacked because in the UK Jews are defined by their religion and hence it would be racist and illegal. But that does not stop extreme criticism of Zionism. Not so in Muslim countries of course where anti Jewish hate propaganda is commonplace.

I wouldn't be so quick to write off engineer's point. I do believe that, at some level, there was an intent to provoke, if for no other reason than the taboo against depicting Muhammad. There is no such taboo in the other religions.

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D'artagnan wrote:

...I wouldn't be so quick to write off engineer's point. I do believe that, at some level, there was an intent to provoke, if for no other reason than the taboo against depicting Muhammad. There is no such taboo in the other religions.

I'm not denying people have been genuinely upset. As I understand the story though it wasnt a deliberate attempt to INSULT just a deliberate excercise of free speech into an area which hitherto had attracted self-censorship. I might be wrong here, it could have been deliberately provocative...but I would like to know why a newspaper editor would do this.

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Steve (as 41oo) wrote:

I'm not denying people have been genuinely upset. As I understand the story though it wasnt a deliberate attempt to INSULT just a deliberate excercise of free speech into an area which hitherto had attracted self-censorship. I might be wrong here, it could have been deliberately provocative...but I would like to know why a newspaper editor would do this.

I'd like to know this as well. It is one thing to have a stable of routine columnists or cartonists and publish one of their works that might offend a community. That sounds like a free speech issue. It is another thing to go to people who wouldn't otherwise create something like this and convince them to produce an intentionally offensive body of work. Then to time their publication with Ramandan? Doesn't this sound fishy?

I'm all for free speech and think the protests against Denmark throughout the Middle East are misguided and the violence reprehensible, but I also am not so quick to defend the publisher of these cartoons. I do not feel his motive was to open dialog and make a point about free speech. I think his point was hatred of Muslims, a growing issue in Denmark, and I think he is getting a pass on this from the world community.

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Steve (as 41oo) wrote:

Quote:

it could have been deliberately provocative...but I would like to know why a newspaper editor would do this.

It is important, in any colonial war, to portray the people you wish to externalize in your colonial expansion as "savage," "brutal" and "irrational."

This helps make the routine killing of the more vocal members of these groups by the colonial "police" seem logical and sane by comparison, allowing the colonial enterprise a veil of "decency" and "law and order" to cover its far more brutal and technologically-advanced human mass-murder.

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freedom4free wrote:

It is important, in any colonial war, to portray the people you wish to externalize in your colonial expansion as "savage," "brutal" and "irrational." ....

You refer to the USUK colonial war of conquest in the middle east? Surely the ridiculous reaction to the cartoons has been exactly that i.e. "savage brutal and irrational". Or is that what you are suggesting, we knew they would react like that so it proves our superiority and therefore our God given right to nick their oil?

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Quote:

but I would like to know why a newspaper editor would do this

Steve, If you believe in what you have said, then you have answered your own question.

The newspaper editor has done a perfect job.

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I have to question the intelligence level of anyone who reacts as cretain Muslims have over a CARTOON!!!!

Either that, or they are just using this issue to further justify attacks on innocent people.

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freedom4free wrote:

Steve, If you believe in what you have said, then you have answered your own question.

thanks f4f. What did I ask?

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woiyo wrote:

I have to question the intelligence level of anyone who reacts as cretain Muslims have over a CARTOON!!!!

Either that, or they are just using this issue to further justify attacks on innocent people.

Chances are many of rioters aren't "intelligent" in the sense that they've received the nice Western education we've all benefited from. And therein lies what pisses me off about the "freedom of the press" argument. Why don't they get it? We want them to appreciate our concept of freedom, even when it outrages their sensibilities.

I'm sure those fools have been manipulated by their own leaders. There's enough blame to go around here. But saying, "It's just a cartoon; why don't they get over it?" is disingenuous...

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I believe it is the lack of proper footwear in the Muslim world. Every where, they are banging their shoes against things as though that will make them fit better.

My solution is to give all Muslims either a nice pair of Nike's or Birkenstocks. That should take care of it.

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Why the Muslims are so angry

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