Blatham, ehBeth, Canajuns!! What do you make of WHO...?

A few more things, first off I am wondering if anyone has actually seen a photo or a person who died from SARS, surely they don't just kinda "pass away" in their sleep...do they bleed in the lungs or what? I can't seem to find actual photos of the victims.

Which is unusual in my opinion.

And a second thing is, I haven't found the link again, but it's somewhere on my source page, of the "infection paterns" in which countries.

Type C is China and most other countries except Singapore and Vietnam (Asian nations, exclude western they weren't on the list for today's patterns).

Now I don't find the "WHO" definition of Type C to be sufficient, but to me it seemed to mean basically, people not in contact with the infected, getting sick...so that means that SARS is not a problem just amongs medical staff now...as TIME magazine said on their website.

At least not by WHO definition...

If I understand what Type C means, maybe there is a Medical person here who better knows?

*EDIT*

Few more things again...a map of current probable cases:

http://www.who.int/csr/sars/map2003_05_10.gif

Now I'm trying to find the chart of full list of cases deaths new cases as of today and such because I calculated for Canada from that and it wasn't a 5% death rate, it was about 15%...

Now if only I could find it, oh and it's recovery rate is only 50% abouts. So plenty more to possibly die...

Also today's increase of SARS cases in USA is 1, I wonder how that is even possible, shouldn't we have had it more under control by now? The USA is generally good about that, this is a tricky virus.

I'll hate to see it when Winter comes, and this has been an exceptionally cold Spring. Still kinda snowing here lol...well, up in the hills, but that's not normal, just began a couple years ago, and seems to be getting worse each passing year. But that's another story...lol

*2nd EDIT*

Perfect I found that data chart.

http://www.who.int/csr/sarscountry/2003_05_10/en/

As you can see, Canada's "SARS" death rate is 15% almost exactly, and I don't know where you got that 85% of them were "old" figure, there is no official release in ANY way of any information of WHO and what ages they are, that die. So for all we really know is that 100% of them could have been 22 years old.

But judging from WHO figures, about 11-15 of the dead were above the age of 60. 22 died of 145, and 48 have yet to recover.

No proof of the 'old' factor huh...check these facts out from the Ontario Government site: http://ogov.newswire.ca/ontario/GPOE/2003/05/10/c0429.html?lmatch=&lang=_e.html

SARS Deaths

Gender Age Date of Death
------ --- -------------
Female 78 March 5
Male 43 Mar. 13
Male 76 Mar. 21
Male 77 Mar. 29
Female 78 Mar. 31
Male 74 April 1
Male 82 Apr. 1 (reported approximately Apr. 5)
Female 57 Apr. 2
Male 62 Apr. 5
Female 75 Apr. 6
Female 80 Apr. 12
Female 86 Apr. 12
Female 73 Apr. 12
Female 99 Apr. 17
Male 63 Apr. 22
Female 78 Apr. 23
Male 44 Apr. 24
Female 69 Apr. 25
Female 64 Apr. 25
Male 77 Apr. 26
Female 79 Apr. 26
Male 39 Apr. 30
Male 72 Apr. 30

My count is 19 out of 23 recorded deaths in the 60+ age range, and not a single one anywhere near the age of 22.

I don't know where you live, but here in Western Europe it really would be more than unusual to see photos of victims in a newspaper.
Not only to data protection and personal freedom rights (that's, why tabloid paper don't do it), but obviously we have a different understanding of "culture", e.g. respect for the dead/death.

You seem to think I'm looking for news articles or crap I just want the medical photos these things are usually very easily found. You can find such medical photos of ebola cases, bubonic plague cases and so on.

Well, perhaps the reason you can't find the photos is because it is not a freaking epidemic...

Hey Cav thanks for that list, it is an epidemic, the reason it isn't a pandemic is because we have an EXCELLENT medical team world wide to stop just such a thing.

The fact that the infection rates are still growing steadily is proof that this is a VERY deadly disease as it could easily have collapsed the infrastructure of any nation should it not have been contained as well as it has been.

The reason that there aren't any photographs could very well be, and in fact is more likely because it is much worse than is actually being told.

Like I said, are they simply passing away in their sleep? I think not...you must ask yourself what is the "carrying capacity" of a country's medical facilities before a disease can no longer be contained due to the strain of treating the sick, and before the sick can no longer be treated because there are too many getting sick.

Your down playing this disease is ignorance, it's taken considerable effort just to keep it growing as little as it has, and yet it continues to spread in an undecernable pattern through most nations. Only Vietnam reports getting it contained and that could be presumptuous.

*EDIT* Oh and cav, since you seem to want to play the "smart ass" about this, how about finding such a list of Chinese casualties. Not all the information is present as I have been saying, or not made easily available to the public. The News is in the dark which is why they simply say "don't go here" or "tourism is down here" they don't know what they are talking about. The WHO is being pretty quiet about what is fully going on, but they aren't hiding the numbers at least. But then to you 100 a day isn't too bad huh? Well again, think back to the "carrying capacity", how many more months can this be tollerated, before the hospital systems in china no longer can quarantine everyone?

In comparison to deaths from drunk driving, SARS and terrorism are still p## in a bucket.

That's a laughable and arrogant statement, not all Canadians certainly put forth such priorities I hope.

In 1348 a FLEA...killed 30 million people out of 100 million.

Research yeilds that the Black Death was not as wide spread as the Influenza Pandemic in 1918, which killed 25 million (the flu, including this one, had only a death rate of about 2-5%).

The plague in 1348 if it were transplanted to today's population would kill 2 Billion people.

SARS, while not as deadly is a debilitating disease.

If you are not treated you will die 100% from exposure or starvation.

SARS is highly comunicable meaning should it escape in a LARGE scale such as the Black death, the death rates relating to the disease caused by dehydration or other, could be as high as 90%.

Due to its long incubation period, you could have the same flu pandemic of 1918, today. Only instead of 25 million in an exposed population of about 1billion, you'll have about 4billion deaths in the world.

Fun figures no?

But then, I guess we have better chances of dying from Car Accidents so you better buckle up yah? Car Accidents for any reason in america kill some what...60thousand a year? That's a pitance compared to what will happen should SARS break down the medical infrastructure.

Again. How many people can be sick before the infrastructure is burdened? 100+ new cases a day in China. And you are all focused on the death rates which are only about 15%, when you should be focusing on the recovery rate, which is about 45-50%. Which means of those 100 people hospitalized today, some 50 of them will still be hospitalized a few months from now. These kinds of figures pose serious threat to containment, WHO knows this, and so long as it poses such threats everywhere that has had SARS should be isolated. Canada included.

The Plague could have been stopped, if the ships from the orient, were kept at sea. One ship, was all it took, to kill 30 million people, just one ship came to florence in late 1347, and brought with it a dying crew, and even though it was kept anchored in harbor, it was not enough. 1 boat, worth a couple hundred gold peices, and nothing more.

Think about it.

New evidence last week indicated that the virus is fatal more often and survives longer on environmental surfaces than previously believed. The World Health Organization raised the estimated death rate to 15 percent of known cases that have run their course, ranging from at least 50 percent of those over 65 to 6 percent for ages 25-44 and 1 percent below that.

Actual death rates are probably lower, Bernstein said, because the estimated rates are only for people sick enough to see doctors. "We know that some people with SARS have very mild disease and haven't come to medical attention," said Dr. Jeffrey Weinstein, an infectious disease specialist at Miami Valley Hospital.

Where'd you lift that from? I was going over the death rates from WHO yeah they do mirror that but you have to continue reading which further explains the lack of certainty behind the lower death rates based on younger than 60.

It's 6%-15% on those below 60 is what they've said, because too many are still hospitalized and not known if they will recover to make a good determination.

Also do remember, the death of such a disease won't be as much a problem of death rate, as infection rate, the infection rate is HUGE.

In 1918 entire population groups in remote areas were whiped out not because the Influenza killed them, but because no one was there to feed them, or to take care of them.

They got sick, layed down and couldn't even get to a water source.

SARS is similar, 90% of the cases requiring hospitalization, and those who are not known to have the disease but do, are potential spreaders.

Hmm, think I will stay in the house then and not try to recover the thousands of dollars I lost due to the media hype about SARS in Toronto. You are either a disease groupie, or just listen to way too much 'conspiracy' radio, IMO.

I'm neither. Toronto isn't past the 20 day clear yet. And while it may seem "hyped up" that's only because it was hyped up.

I love those movies where the guy says "evacuate everyone" and then the boss says "that's what you said the last 10 times and you were wrong all 10 times" and this time he's right and the whole town or city is obliterated...kind of like Cassandra you know, predicted Agammemnon and her own's death and no one listened to her.

Every plane with one unknown SARS victim on it spreads the disease to countless areas. Today we travel around the world in 10 days, if not just a few days, why do you think SARS is currently in 30 different countries.

I just have more common sense then you.

You say that there is no problem, and that they are "over reacting" but I know that there is no problem because they over reacted, you should bow to them.

Congratulations to that, 5PoF! :wink:

Geez, I just did a keyword search on cavfancier and the phrase "no problem". Guess what. . .

Thanks hinteler, I don't mean to be mean, it's just simply that the over-reaction to this virus may be why we don't have serious problems on our hands.

I'm still waiting for an estimate on the handling capacities of the Chinese Medical facilities, I can't seem to find anything about that.

roger, okay, you found my secrets...I have been known to post about 'problems' on the net occasionally, lol. 5PoF, my apologies for coming off as testy...a lot of us here harbour a lot of bitterness over the media and the WHO, no need to take it out on you though :wink:

Dang my love for eliptical writing. Couldn't find "no problem" related to SARS. The disease is worth serious consideration, and is getting it. It is not time to panic.

It is not one of the hemoragic fevers like ebola and lahasa, so no exciting pictures. Sorry, 5PoF.

roger, isn't that exactly the point...'not time to panic'. I am all for responsible action against disease, i.e. the current preemptive strike in Canada re: West Nile Virus. However, I am against irresponsible media hyping on such a global scale that it costs an entire city billions of dollars in lost revenue. It is not over yet either. The recent new evidence found will fuel the media all through the summer, and will kill business here. Can't wait to see what happens to the Toronto Film Festival....(insert sarcasm here).

And forgive us Canadians with no common sense to be a tad sensitive when we read **** like this:


IT'S A 'STEPFORD' IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION



May 12, 2003 -- KIDDIES, did mother not tell you last week that the Divine Miss M just signed to do "The Stepford Wives" with Nicole Kidman and Glenn Close which Frank Oz is directing?
Well, pay attention. I now tell you that Bette, who lives in New York, and Nicole, who has a place in New York, and Glenn, who's always stayed in New York, are going to film this in New York.

Not in SARS-larded Toronto. Not in any other such throbbing urban metropolis as Halifax or Nova Scotia or whiz-bang pulsating downtown Alberta. Not anyplace in ungrateful unneighborly Canada, that northern suburb right outside Buffalo which wouldn't stand with us, which works cheap, which has tried to lure Hollywood away from New York, which has been looking to con even New York-themed projects into believing their antiseptic boring streets could look like ours and which is desperate to make movies instead of Mounties.

"The Stepford Wives" will be shot in Long Island City. At Kaufman Astoria Studios. A shoot of several months. The sets are being built as we speak.


Sure, Cindy Adams is a trashy gossip columnist, but this crap gets attention.

Incidentally, for the geographically-challenged, Halifax is a CITY in the PROVINCE of Nova Scotia....Alberta is also a province, and therefore does not technically have a 'downtown'. Just so there is no confusion, I am LMAO about this, but a bit saddened at the same time. Cheers, and a cough on you all

Guess you think I was disagreeing, cavfancier. Sorry about that.