Lash wrote:nimh wrote:You said riots were "sweeping Europe" over the cartoon affair. I mentioned that as one example of your penchant for caricatural exaggerations.
Incorrect. I initially said predominately Muslim violence was "sweeping" Europe during their first wave of violence surrounding the deaths of two youths near Paris. I brought evidence of my claims, which you decided to ignore. Now, that Muslims are conducting Riots Part 2, I wondered if you or others would concede there is a problem with specifically Muslim violence. I used the term "sweeping" to allude to the previous disagreement, which I'm sure you know.
(Emphasis added)
This is not true. Either you're dissembling, or - it is quite a while ago - you remember incorrectly. You were fairly straightforward in your claim.
In re: to a post of yours about the cartoon violence, Acquiunk reminded you of, in his mind comparable, violence in America in the 60s and of abortion clinic attacks, and in response,
on February 5, you wrote:the things you mentioned, were perpetrated by an tiny minority.
Not so with sweeping riots across Europe---once again---by Muslims.
(
Link).
That's two straightforward claims at once:
- the Muslim riots are
not perpetrated by a tiny minority (I've mostly omitted to nag you about that one, but it is equally undefensible);
- and there are "sweeping riots across Europe -- once again -- by Muslims"
Literally.
Once again sweeping riots
across Europe.
So that's exactly the claim I've been calling a gross exaggeration: that there were indeed once again sweeping riots across Europe. Again, fairly straightforward really. Another person would just have shrugged and acknowledged it - heat of the moment, an' all, exaggerated yeah, what's it to ya.
Lash wrote:nimh wrote:There have been riots in Nigeria, Lybia, Beirut, Syria, Pakistan, true. None of those places lie in Europe though, so that's really neither here nor there.
There have been no riots in Europe?
Thats what I've been asking you about. You were the one claiming that riots were once again sweeping Europe, now about the cartoons, so I've asked you several times to reference what riots you were talking about. I explained that the worst I heard about was the demonstrations in London with their hateful, prosecution-worthy placards, but that I may have missed something, of course.
Until now, you brought no evidence that I "ignored"; you only brought a link about last November.
Lash wrote:accuse them of being wrong in as many other threads as you please, without a fair representation of how completely irresponsibly you behaved.
I've just reposted your original statement above - it was exactly what I've referred it to be all along. <shrugs>
Lash wrote:nimh wrote:Re: riots sweeping Europe, the worst I've heard of was a demonstration in London where hateful placards were carried. That's hardly a riot. Did I miss something?
You're going to hang on to no Muslim violence in Europe?
I'm hanging on to exactly what I said - it's not difficult to just read what I wrote, instead of trying to twist it into something else.
Ergo: re the riots that you said were sweeping across Europe once again (you know - the thing I've been talking about all this time), the worst
I've heard was a demonstration in London where hateful placards were carried.
(This is an instructive exercise, actually, to see how that happens. If I'd just have nodded here, you would later return to claim that I said there was never any Muslim violence in Europe, which of course would be bullshit and counter to the content of dozens of my posts here.)
OK, so I've asked you several times to inform me of what I apparently missed, according to you. Apart from the one link from Brusselsjournal about events three months ago, I believe this is the first time you actually try. So of course I've read all your links. Here they are again:
This is about the riots of November - nothing about Muslim riots "sweeping across Europe---once again" over the cartoons, which is the simple assertion I've been calling you on.
Interesting article though, useful, thanks. As for supporting your other statements (such as that in the case of the Muslim riots, we are not talking about a "tiny majority"), it includes this tidbit: "The overwhelming majority of residents are law-abiding citizens. But because of the radical few among them the place is widely seen as a den of Islamic extremism."
This is about the riots of November - nothing about Muslim riots "sweeping across Europe---once again" over the cartoons.
This link is indeed about the cartoon crisis - but mentions no violence whatsoever - let alone sweeping riots - in Europe. The only violence it mentions is in Nigeria.
This is about riots in
Pakistan, Lash - which is most definitely not in Europe, last time I checked.
This is about riots in Nigeria and Lybia ... both very much not in Europe either.
Remember, it's not some "riots are sweeping the world" I called you on. The simple, straightforward thing I said was that your assertion about "riots once again sweeping Europe" over the cartoons was a gross exaggeration ... thats all.
Nothing about any violence in Europe over the cartoons (or in the last two months, period), whatsoever.
Violence in Syria, Pakistan, Iraq, Sudan, Indonesia, Palestine. We knew that; I've posted extensively about it too. None of those countries are in (or even near) Europe, though - so this link too is completely irrelevant to your claim.
After all of which, we are, thus, back at the Brussels Journal, the only publication you seem to be able to find to back you up. Odd, since if Muslim riots had truly been sweeping across Europe once again, you would have thought at least one or the other of the established news media from any of the European countries would have remarked something on it.
However, I see and acknowledge the fact that, apparently, cars were damaged and journalists were beaten up in Antwerp over the cartoons. <nods> That's pretty bad. (This
Expatica report corroborates that nine cars - and a tram - were damaged, though it says nothing about journalists being beaten up.)
And I'd say that would qualify for at least
one riot - or violent demonstration, at least - in Europe over the cartoons. Perhaps you should go with "one riot swept across Europe - or Antwerp, anyway" - next time ;-)
Thank you very much for your links though. If even you could not find more than one instance of violence, then there must truly not have been much in the way of rioting going on in Europe this time.
Considering this, in fact, I will join Le Figaro in praising our continent's Muslims for having reacted overall calmly and reasonably to this crisis, even as loons and zealots were running wild in many countries of the Muslim world that their families hail from.
Lash wrote:I won't try to convince you, but I think there is a sweeping problem, featuring Muslims at a city near you.
I absolutely agree with that (I think she means Holland rather than Hungary, Walter). However, that is not at all the claim I've been challenging you on. <shrugs>
It was, I'll add, a challenge that's had me, by now, accused by you of - I'm not looking up the exact wordings - lying about what you said, ignoring your evidence, being stubbornly ignorant, being a fool, etc, etc. When it was really fairly straightforward <shrugs>.
I have to reiterate: stuff like this is simple. When you assert something, no matter how big or small, and you get called on it - you've got the choice to either honestly address what you said, or duck and dissemble instead, acting like you really said something else altogether, perhaps even throwing in some florid abuse for added distraction. <shrugs>
