1
   

Why insulting prophet Muhammad?!

 
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Feb, 2006 06:12 pm
Under deadline with paper--I pop in, but no time for a "nimh job"--or approach of one, akshully. I shall look into which bits of this DO refer to me this week. I have things to say. Yes. <nods>

<that tongue sticking out emoticon here>
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Feb, 2006 06:13 pm
Good luck with the paper.
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Feb, 2006 06:14 pm
Thank you. <smiles at cute duck>
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Feb, 2006 06:18 pm
Aw shucks. <looks around frantically for un-cute avatar quick, before reputation gets ruined>
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Feb, 2006 06:27 pm
OK, Lash! :wink:

Meanwhile, some further summaries (mine, not the papers') of relevant news stories ... Tried to write them so duplicate information is avoided as much as possible. The first two are the things you probably already seen on the news.

Quote:
Furore over Prophet images grows, embassies torched

Feb 4,
Reuters

Furious Syrians set fire to the Danish and Norwegian embassies as protests over cartoons of the Prophet Mohammad showed no signs of abating.

They continued throughout the Muslim world in a face-off between calls for press freedom and religious respect. Protesters also thronged at the Danish embassy in London.

In a new twist, Iran said it is forming a committee "to review trade ties" with countries that published the cartoons.

They have now appeared in scores of countries, including Bulgaria, New Zealand and Poland.

European leaders have called for calm, but EU Justice Commissioner Frattini said it was not for the EU to apologise.: "We don't have the power to apologise in the name of the press."

In Denmark, a network of moderate Muslims condemned the attack on the Danish embassy and urged restraint: "the situation is out of control," said spokesman Naser Khader.


Quote:
Muhammad cartoons: Call for calm

5 Feb
The Scotsman

The British Government has called for calm in the row over cartoons depicting Mohammed, after a third embassy was torched by protesters in the Middle East.

Denmark's consulate in the Lebanese capital Beirut was targeted by a mob which ran riot in a Christian neighbourhood of Beirut.

The government's comments came among growing demands for the prosecution of demonstrators in the UK who have brandished placards calling for those responsible for the cartoons to be killed.

Shadow home secretary Davis said that slogans such as "Massacre those who insult Islam" amounted to incitement to murder and said police should take a "no tolerance" approach to them.


Quote:
Tranquil nation at the centre of a clash of cultures

4 February
The Independent

The door of Jyllands-Posten is barred by security guards, the building is now the target of bomb threats.

The paper's culture editor, Flemming Rose, is not in a mood to say sorry. "I stand by the publication. Wearing a short skirt at the discotheque in our culture does not imply that you invite everybody to have sex with you. When you draw a cartoon of the Prophet, in our culture that does not mean that you are denigrating, that you are humiliating religion. This is just the way we do things."

The furious international reaction has, Mr Rose says, "very little to do with these cartoons". "This has more to do with this campaign by radical imams who travelled to the Middle East, who lied about the context, who said that Muslims are suppressed, that it's awful to be a Muslim in Denmark."

Among those he means is Ahmad Abu Laban, leader of the Islamic Society in Denmark. Abu Laban says there can be no compromise: "We are not against freedom of speech but the Prophet Mohamed has unique status."

"Some Danish people - and the media - started to tell Muslims that they should sit down, keep quiet, and behave themselves".

But why has this row blown up in Denmark? According to the editor-in-chief of Politiken newspaper, the dispute "reflects the general shape of the debate in Denmark which has been strongly xenophobic and islamaphobic". And it has been mishandled by Prime Minister Rasmussen, who was elected on a tough, anti-immigration platform and whose government relies on the far right Danish People's Party.

For weeks, he refused to get involved, but yesterday he changed course and appeared on al-Arabeya television, defending freedom of expression, but arguing: "I would never depict religious figures in a way that could hurt other people's feelings." The question is if the effort to dampen the flames has come too late.


Quote:
Frattini defends right to publish "imprudent" cartoons

3 February
EurActiv

As the Danish cartoon affair took on a European dimension, EU Justice Commissioner Frattini stressed that "it should be crystal clear .. that violence, intimidation, and the calls for boycotts or for restraints on the freedom of the press are completely unacceptable".

However, he added that he understands "the feelings of indignation, frustration and sadness of the Muslim communities over .. the cartoons," and said: "Such events do not facilitate dialogue between faiths and cultures. I personally regard the publication of the cartoons as somewhat imprudent."


Quote:
Respect for religious symbols urged
[the contrasting takes of Italian government politicians]


ANSA
February 3

Italian politicians joined a global debate over the publication by newspapers of cartoons depicting the Prophet Mohammad. Most Italian newspapers published a selection of the images on Friday.

Interior Minister Pisanu [of Berlusconi's Forza Italia party] appeared to side against dailies who have republished the controversial cartoons. "Religious symbols, whichever religion is concerned, must be respected and must not be objects of sarcasm, satire or abuse," he said.

Foreign Minister Fini [of the rightwing National Alliance] implied that newspapers should have shown more sensitivity, saying there was a thin line between satire and blasphemy, which he said was "vulgar and offensive".

But Reform Minister Calderoli, whose Northern League party takes a hardline on immigration, said newspapers were right to publish the cartoons. The "attacks by Islamist extremists .. are the tip of an iceberg of a holy war that Islam is waging against us. The West must not give in".

The centre-left opposition also tended to emphasise the importance of press freedom although it also underlined the need for "sensitivity". The National Federation of Journalists also defended the right of newspapers to publish what they wanted to.


Quote:
OSCE Media Freedom Representative defends papers' right to publish controversial cartoons, asks for mutual respect for traditions
[refers to comparable cases where those caricaturing Jesus, Pope, were prosecuted and defended by OSCE]


3 February

Miklos Haraszti, the OSCE Representative on Freedom of the Media, defended the right of a free press to publish satirical cartoons, even if they depict figures in established religions.

He said, "I understand the sensitivities of those who feel their traditions have been slighted by these cartoons. But .. What many of the demonstrators, and some governments, demand is State interference into the work of the media."

He added: "The OSCE stands by responsible journalism, but we believe that governments are no agents in this business. Publications that are offensive .. should be dealt with through the self-regulatory ethics bodies of the quality press."

Haraszti referred to the case of an Austrian caricaturist who was sentenced to prison in Greece in 2005 for depicting Jesus Christ in a demeaning manner, and to a case in 2005, when Polish editor Jerzy Urban was prosecuted for insulting the dignity of the Pope.

"In both cases, without siding in any way with the views of the defendants, our Office protested the fact that these people were brought to court by the state."
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Feb, 2006 06:28 pm
Finally, No lack of stupidity (or reckless furor) on the part of the various actors in this farce..

Media Channel (Letter From Copenhagen: Should Denmark Apologize for Controversial Cartoons?) has this tidbit on the Danish newspaper that originally published the cartoon:

Quote:
Jyllands-Posten will never win any awards for good taste. Several years ago, during a petition campaign against anti-Israel bias in the press, the paper saw fit to publish a letter from a Dane who tried to discredit the petition by counting its "Jewish names." (Of course he got it wrong, targeting Vikings named Weber and missing Jews named Mallow.)


And this on some of the more weird or ignoble responses to the cartoons:

Quote:


Mixed news, meanwhile, from the domestic front in Denmark:

Quote:
This week, the talk was turning nasty. Some press commentators were calling for a counter-boycott of Muslim shops in Denmark. Happily, most mainstream voices rejected the tactic. Some moderate Muslims, such as leftist parliamentarian Naser Khader, are calling for calm dialogue. But more Muslims were supporting the boycott, fueling the tension further.
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Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Feb, 2006 06:38 pm
For what they are worth:

A selection of cartoons from the Muslim world
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Acquiunk
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Feb, 2006 07:44 pm
Joe Nation, not fun or funny but they are basically political if anti-semitic in content. They do not directly attack the core symbols of either Christianity or Judaism The cartoons that are causing the ruckus did that.
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Feb, 2006 07:07 am
What amuses me is the double standards and hypocrisy all round. On the march to the Danish embassy in London, protesters were given police escort (motorcycles/helicopter etc) whilst carrying placards calling for more suicide bombings as 7/7, because cartoons not published in the UK depicted Mohammed as a suicide bomber.

Last year, predominantly middle class if not well-to-do people protested outside Parliament about anti fox hunting legislation. Result...police wade in, make arrests and smash a few heads in the process.

One of the less provocative Muslim placards called for "Death to liberty and freedom".

This morning some idiot was trying to defend the demonstration saying they were excercising their right to free speech.

Oh and the young man photgraphed next to a police van, wearing a military style explosive belt like a suicide bomber? No problem with that, it was "obvious" he was not carrying explosives. Whereas an innocent young Brazilian electrician, on his way to work, ended up with seven police dum dum bullets in his head because...well I dont know, you cant be too careful these days.( I have met some very dangerous electricians in my time).

Nimh you were adamant that the French riots had nothing to do with Islam. Do you accept these disturbances/demonstrations have everything to do with Islam, and have been organised by specific radical Islamist groups such as Hizb ut Tahrir?
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Feb, 2006 07:12 am
<damn good blazing post, Steve>

...death to freedom and liberty...

It is time some acquainted themselves with wtf is going on in the world.
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Feb, 2006 07:24 am
Oh dear...time to confess...I misquote the placard

It didn't say "death to freedom and liberty"

(they) said

"Freedom go to hell"
"Liberalism go to hell" and (this is the best)
"Freedom of expression go to hell"

just thought I'd clear that up before someone points out my error.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Feb, 2006 07:38 am
Has anyone insulted Mohammed (may he burn in Hell eternally with the Liberals) this morning ?
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Feb, 2006 07:39 am
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
Nimh you were adamant that the French riots had nothing to do with Islam. Do you accept these disturbances/demonstrations have everything to do with Islam, and have been organised by specific radical Islamist groups such as Hizb ut Tahrir?

Of course I do.

The difference is quite obvious, I'd say.

(Did you notice any of the Parisian rioters carrying placards referring to the fatwa against Rushdie - or any fatwa, for that matter? Did the French rioters go on about defending the Prophet - or even Islam as a religion - at all? Did you notice any particular political or religious leader publicly firing up the French rioters?

Re: France, I've only ever seen Muslim leaders quoted trying to calm the rioters down - and rioters quoted about discrimination, unemployment, police behaviour, etc, not about "insults to Islam" - and I read a lot of articles..)
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Feb, 2006 07:43 am
Setanta wrote:
Has anyone insulted Mohammed (may he burn in Hell eternally with the Liberals) this morning ?
No, well I haven't. I'm going to be particularly nice to old Mo from now on. I dont want there to be any misunderstanding in case I have to be massacred by mistake.
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Feb, 2006 07:49 am
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:

"Freedom of expression go to hell"


Now that's a winner.
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Feb, 2006 07:52 am
nimh wrote:
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
Nimh you were adamant that the French riots had nothing to do with Islam. Do you accept these disturbances/demonstrations have everything to do with Islam, and have been organised by specific radical Islamist groups such as Hizb ut Tahrir?

Of course I do.

The difference is quite obvious, I'd say.

(Did you notice any of the Parisian rioters carrying placards referring to the fatwa against Rushdie - or any fatwa, for that matter? Did the French rioters go on about defending the Prophet - or even Islam as a religion - at all? Did you notice any particular political or religious leader publicly firing up the French rioters?

Re: France, I've only ever seen Muslim leaders quoted trying to calm the rioters down - and rioters quoted about discrimination, unemployment, police behaviour, etc, not about "insults to Islam" - and I read a lot of articles..)


ok well we agree about the current disturbances at least
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Feb, 2006 07:59 am
A cartoon (sorry!) from today's Guardian (even more sorry!!):

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/martin_rowson/2006/02/06/rowson512.jpg
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Feb, 2006 08:11 am
I didn't get that cartoon at first...

Of course Mohammed has been depicted many times by Muslim artists in the past. Shame that's forgotten.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Feb, 2006 08:20 am
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
I didn't get that cartoon at first...


It's a bit our of range for Sun-readers, I know :wink:
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Feb, 2006 08:44 am
nimh wrote:
Of course I do.

The difference is quite obvious, I'd say.

Here's the difference in a nutshell ...

In London and Damascus, they riot or protest this week over the wrongful depiction of the Prophet.

In a suburb of Paris, they riot this week after the police kills a Gap robber...
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