There is some very good advice here--practical and assertive. I agree, Jespah, that CL can and should do what she thinks best, but if she won't follow good advice, she should stop complaining.
Haven't read the thread. I'd call it harassment and talk to your superior.
Just act cold, ignore him, and roll your eyes everytime he speaks.
I should know. Works on me.
All the time.
I mean, er, I heard. My friend say, that when he hits on girls he doesn't have good luck. But I'm a STUD, BABY!! HELL YEA!
See, the thing about you, Slappy, is you don't waste time on women you don't actually have a chance with. There is an entire subspecies of men who know they can't actually get a date with a given woman but still "flirt" -- which isn't actually flirting, it's more the verbal equivalent of copping a feel.
WAY irritating.
(And then a third category are people who flirt for the hell of it and with no intention of following through, they're much more fun.)
Women I don't have a chance with?
Are you calling me a big loser? You just put a big "L" over your forehead, didn't you?
Well that's it. This weekend I'm going to find a couple more women to toss in the juggling mix. Just for you. Going to a jungle of single women tomorrow: Boston Wine Expo.
But yea, you're right. I can usually figure out pretty quickly if there's opportunity.
Does your boss have a boss, just in case she walks away from the situation?
The guy's a creep, every time he addresses you, say: "Yes, Creep?" . . . let him know in no uncertain terms that his attentions are not appreciated. Complain to everyone to whom you can appropriately complain. Don't put up with it.
good point, Edgar -- was going to suggest the same thing...
CL--
What's happening today? Has Mr Charming returned?
He came, I saw him, I ignored him, answered basic questions and then he left
Civilization, 7/Barbarians 6.
No offense folks, but I didn't really much good advice on this thread, accept Soz's. I employ a lot of young pretty girls, and in the restaurant business; they get hit on plenty. Sometimes they like it some times they don't. Sometimes they'd rather get the ridiculously good tip than say something. That's up to them. All know they are 100% safe and none walk to their cars alone... ever.-> My rules.
I fully expect them to come right out and say "I'm sorry... I'm not interested." or "You're making me feel a little uncomfortable. Please don't" or whatever response is called for if they feel uncomfortable. I can't expect my customers to know which girls might like it and which girls don't, so it is their job to let the truth be known. Any patron who doesn't get the hint immediately; will immediately thereafter be asked to apologize or leave, by me. (Anything short of a sincere apology, I forgo I the sooner and insist on the latter... RIGHT NOW!
However, if you didn't tell him you weren't interested; how was he supposed to know? Men scoring girls half their age is hardly unheard of. I could do so myself, pretty much any day of the week, if I were so inclined. My point being; unless he said something that would be out of line for anyone to say; there is nothing wrong with him hitting on you unless and until you say so. Until then, you have no room to complain in any official capacity.
As for sexual harassment; same goes. Obviously my occupation requires me to keep abreast of the laws regarding this kind of thing. Good sense requires me to keep my employees informed as well. The fact is; until you've made it clear that verbal advances are unwelcome; there is no harassment. It becomes harassment when the inappropriate behavior continues AFTER the unwelcome-ness has been established. Likewise, no company is liable unless they A. have been informed of the situation and B. took no steps to correct it.
Half of the married people I know met their spouses where at least one of them worked or went to school. This is not uncommon at all, and sometimes the age differences are bizarre. I personally frown on big age gaps when one is very young, but professionally it's none of my business. Unless "ugly old dude's" behavior is bad enough that it would be offensive by "young stud", he's done not a thing wrong unless and until you say so.
Next time; be flattered or be clear you're not interested. You've nothing to complain about until then.
Generally I find myself nodding in agreement with your posts, Bill, but I think you are viewing this from your vantage point. You are a man of the 21st century who respects women and would never hurt one - many other men and employers are not as well developed.
It also depends on workplaces being fair and impartial, which they are supposed to be, but not all are. A woman definitely has to size-up her workplace and the people in management and figure out if she will be protected, treated fairly and listened to. It is awful to think we have not developed as far as we might have thought, with women being penalized (however quietly) for creating a stir in the workplace by having the audacity to complain about harassment.
Additionally, in Crazielady's case, the man was not a coworker but a 'client', if you will. Not that long ago, I heard a client berate one of my co-workers and insult her intelligence because she spent more time at home with babies than at work (I kid you not). I waited for our team leader to intercept his rampage and politely explain to the client that this was inappropriate and when he didn't, I called him on it. He whined and skated around the issue with some stupidly simpering comment about not wanting to piss-off the client (who pays us a LOT of money) and he would speak privately to him to avoid it in the future. I was friggin FURIOUS!
Additionally not all young women are experienced in matters such as these, secure and confident enough in themselves to be their own protectors, and knowledgeable enough to know that if they lose this job they can always get another. I certainly wasn't when I was that age. I am now, but I have grown over the years. I wouldn't take the crap now that I did when I was 17 and being groped, grinded on and subject to the most disgustingly lewd comments by grown men! I'd kick them in the nut-sack and dare my boss to look crooked at me, but back then these guys would follow us home, stalk us and threaten us if need be to keep us quiet. It's not quite so bad these days, but we are not quite there yet.
You said "until you've made it clear that verbal advances are unwelcome; there is no harassment". I think that is incorrect. While some harassment does require the woman vocalize her unhappiness with the treatment/situation, men (or at least most men) are not completely stupid. They KNOW when they are going too far and it is not appreciated. Some self-control and a smidgeon of respect would be nice. A genuine interest in a woman, verbalized by a co-worker can be harmless and either accepted or rejected by the woman. That is one thing. But crude, rude, and downright disgusting comments should be knocked on the head by a supervisor immediately regardless of the womans response or her complaint. It is completely unacceptable and I would be surprised that should this type of thing go on at the workplace, that a woman should "have to" complain in order for it to be stopped.
Heeven--
I agree. You have to have a certain amount of maturity and experience to realize that you have a right not to be a vocal or physical lust object.
You are correct, Heeven. I am viewing this from my own perspective... but also attempting to steer CL in the right direction.
"until you've made it clear that verbal advances are unwelcome; there is no harassment". This was a legal statement of fact, not an opinion. My opinion when my girls are gossiping about an A-hole is invariably, almost anxiously, awaiting the green light to send the offender on his way. They tend to tolerate far more than I would have them, but I nonetheless respect their opinion of what is too far (groping will land you uncomfortably in my parking lot, with no opinion considered, other than mine). Some of the girls welcome the sorry loser who'll tip excessively in exchange for being allowed to think he's cool. A scene in my restaurant isn't called for unless my girl is actually offended. Some grandfather's reflections of how they wish they were young enough to take out my girls are perceived as cute, while others are perceived as creepy. I feel I have little choice but to let the girls decide for themselves where their boundaries are and to let they themselves distinguish between cute and creepy. Is that wrong? CL never iterated any details that sounded damning beyond her perception of "creep's" approach. In my book; it remains her responsibility to let "creep" know she isn't interested, before calling for the Calvary. If he was indeed rude or crude; I whole-heartedly agree that he should be dealt with immediately by her supervisor... but if he's just a shot-less loser who thought he had a shot, and she said nothing to discourage him... I'd have to mind my own business, whether I approved of him or not. No?
I always had a pretty good way of getting rid of those guys. Every time they give me a comploment, I say "thanks, my boyfriend thinks so too". Just my nice little way of saying "back off" ;-)
Worked wonders for me :-)
