Oh my goodness... I'm starting to wonder here if anyone really understands what compromise is. It's being painted in a really negative light, I think purely because those seeing it that way don't want to compromise. Look at the definition:
1 a : settlement of differences by arbitration or by consent reached by mutual concessions b : something intermediate between or blending qualities of two different things
2 : a concession to something derogatory or prejudicial <a compromise of principles>
That's interesting that you say you can see how it might actually be discrimination. It does raise the question, though, if you think that's even a possibility, why allow it?
Who are you worried about hurting?
Hephzibah, did you read my long post on this?
I think Scenario 2 is an example of compromise -- which I think is a good thing, when based on reality.
You do whatever you'd like, Momma Angel.
I'm not physically hindering you, or hindering you in any other way.
I'm just withholding the affirmation of your way of thinking that you seem to want.
If you don't want it, if that doesn't matter, why am I frustrating you?
sozobe wrote:Intrepid wrote:After following this thread completely, I am coming to the conclusion that to abstain so that others will not think badly etc. is a mistake. If no is what is in the heart, then no should be the vote.
I do agree with that.
As for jaywalking, I think the passion would be less because the injustice is less. Whether someone can or can't cross the street at a certain place is far lower stakes than whether he or she can marry the person he or she loves.
Thanks. I was just pointing out the matter of degree. This could also be applied to the Samaritan story of the man and the street vs homosexuality.
Yeah I read it. But I don't think compromise necessarily means surrendering completely what you believe to be true.
Momma Angel wrote:Intrepid,
If I had changed my mind because I didn't want others to think badly of me that would be one thing. But I changed my mind because I could see how it actually might be discrimination. I thought that abstaining would let me stick to my principles and not hurt anyone else in the process.
I wasn't referring to your changing your mind for that reason. I meant anyone that would do so for the reasons I stated.
Actually it is a no win in the sense that if you abstain, people think it discriminatory. if you vote no, people think it is discriminatory, bigoted and homophobic. If you vote yes, you are untrue to yourself and your beliefs.
Hmm, I guess I'd just say that for some people, the stakes are very very high for gay marriage.
Why won't you change your view about homosexuality being wrong, Momma Angel? I thought compromise was a good thing? ;-)
Personally, I don't care what you do -- I'm just, as usual, (and I dunno why, I guess 'cause I see promise and that keeps being rewarded, if in smaller ways than I'd like to see), pointing out how your own discussion style gets you into hot water.
hephzibah wrote:Yeah I read it. But I don't think compromise necessarily means surrendering completely what you believe to be true.
That was precisely the point with my black, white, and gray examples at the end. Many of us believe that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality and no reason gay and lesbian people shouldn't be able to marry. We're both not willing to surrender completely what we believe to be true AND... this is a big and... we're willing to SUPPORT these beliefs logically.
Momma Angel wrote:So, unless I vote yes, I am wrong?
I have to set aside my right to vote my conscience in order to be right? I have to overlook my right for someone elses'?
No, you vote the way you want to vote-- If you think homosexuality is wrong then vote against gay marriage. This constant questioning harkens back to what I said in another religious thread-- You don't want to think for yourself, you rely on JC to do it all for you.
Although, I find it interesting that you are in the grips of ambivalence about this issue-- especially because homosexuals deserve to have all the things straight people enjoy. By saying no you are asserting your superiority as a "good" Christian.
I consider everything you say (everything that I see, anyway -- which means everything on this thread, but there are probably words you have typed here that I haven't seen).
I ask questions for a few reasons. One is to gain an understanding, if something you've said could have a few different meanings. Another is to try to help you understand something through thought experiments.
There are some "compromises" that are not compromises. Say a horrible person came up to your house and said they were going to kill two of your cats. You of course protest, and they say fine, I'll compromise, I'll kill only one of your cats.
Is that an acceptable compromise?
But then you turn around and say:
Quote:Why won't you change your view about homosexuality being wrong, Momma Angel? I thought compromise was a good thing?
Which implies to me you want to play both sides of the fence because you yourself say you are willing to compromise but in fact you are not willing to compromise unless that person will be swayed to your way of thinking...
Did ya see the winky emoticon?
It was ironic, sweetie.
Winkies, people!
That was exactly the point -- you have no intention of changing your view on homosexuality. You think it's wrong. Where is the compromise, then? You think it's wrong. We think it's fine. The compromise is that, what, it's sort of OK?
sozobe wrote:Did ya see the winky emoticon?
It was ironic, sweetie.
bwaaaaaa haha! I did see that, but from my perception it looked to be a sarcastic remark
because of the smiley you chose... Like ha ha I know I am right... Do you see now how easy it is to misunderstand what someone is saying or implying?
Hmmm, sort of. Then it's on the misunderstood person to clarify -- as I just did. :-)
I am misunderstood all the time
