The Middle of the Road or Not?

sozobe,

Huh? I am confused. I thought most people wanted the churches totally out of politics? I thought they wanted complete separation of church and state? I have been told numerous times how upset some have been because churches were saying things in their sermons about political issues and lobbying to gain support.

Can you explain what you mean a bit more?

Yes, they do endorse it in the public sector in the same way that other church's promote their position.

When gay marriage was on our ballot, many many churches issued position papers in our voter's guide.

It is the right of any person or group who has the money to buy space in the guide.

Essentially, a church is just like any other special interest group.

Terms, again.

Politics, fine. (Trying to influence a public issue -- again depending on what the issue is and how it's done.)

In GOVERNMENT, no.

What?! Ok, stop the presses! Boomerang, you are saying it is the church's right to do this?

Perhaps you are one of the more open-minded on this issue here? You don't seem to be conveying that you have a problem with this? Is that correct?

sozobe,

So which is this issue of gay marriage? Politics or government?

Actually, I prefer our Church's position. We absolutely stay out of politics and political discussion within the Church and you will NEVER hear anything to do with politics in a sermon.

Both.

I think churches have the right, as a special interest group, to try to influence (within the law) what policies are made -- and if they are doing so in favor of gay marriage, I agree.

I think churches have the right, as a special interest group, to try to influence (within the law) what policies are made -- and if they are doing so against gay marriage, I disagree.

Only government can actually make the laws, and I don't think that religion should enter into it. They may listen to all special interest groups -- no matter who they may be -- but the ultimate decision should be religion-free.

Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Sozobe, are you actually saying as long as the church is endorsing gay marriage then you think it's ok for them to be involved but if they aren't going to endorse it then they need to keep their nose out of it?

Not at all. Look at the beginning of both sentences.

They have the right. I disagree with their position.

Oh, ok! Whew! I kept looking at the sentences and they were the exact same except for the I agree or I disagree part.

Thanx for clearing that up?

Sure.

Let me offer this as an example of where I draw the line.

We have a Senator here, Gordon Smith. Smith is a Mormon. He "morally objected" to the issue of physician assisted suicide and vowed to fight it despite the fact that the issue had been approved by Oregon voters by a landslide.

He has the right to be morally opposed but as our elected representative -- someone we pay to represent US, not himself, he had absolutely no right to impose his God on us.

At the same time we had a Governer named John Kitzhauber. He was a doctor, an emergency room physician. He was medically opposed to physician assisted suicide.

When the voters approved it he vowed to stand behind us and he did.

Both men had every right to announce their position and every right to vote their concious.

But as our elected representatives they both had the duty to uphold the will of the voters they were hired to represent.

One faild. But he's making up for it a bit now.

One passed.

That is where I draw the line.

Thank you, boomerang. That makes complete sense to me.

And now you have me all optimistic again. ;-)

Time will tell, I guess. :-)

Sozobe,

You rock girl!

This isn't gonna get all mushy again, is it?

Nah. Too early in the morning!

Check again. I'm not imposing anything on anyone. You are uninformed about my stance re homosexuality.

You are correct. I thought you had stated that homosexuality isn't a biological expression. I either had you confused with someone else, or assumed a tad.

Why don't you clear it up?

Why don't you explain how saying that I'm unsure as to whether it is a biological expression or just a choice is "imposing my opinion" on anyone's life? How would discussing the reason affect their decision in the least?

As to your other assumption, I am completely accepting of the homosexual lifestyle, though not an active participate myself. I have two family members and 1 member by marriage that are openly homosexual. They have explained to me on numerous occasions that their decision was based solely upon their feelings for certain individuals. One also related to me that her choice came because of the harshness that she experienced with men.

Our family has always been staunch Christian, something of which I'm distancing myself. Yet despite the trouble that this caused for the individual family members, they decided to live the way they wanted anyway.

At any rate, if you were serious about wanting to know where I stand, that's it.