The Spiritual and/or Religious beliefs of an Atheist

Chumly wrote:

Doktor S wrote:
However, the word 'agnostic' is problematic for me.
You see, I don't feel that the premise of 'theism' is worth any serious consideration whatsoever.
Hi Doc,

I don't know if you read Asimov's interview (which I - more or less - leveraged into to this question of definitions)
Asimov wrote:
I don't have the evidence to prove that God doesn't exist, but I so strongly suspect he doesn't that I don't want to waste my time.
but this part of Asimov's views parallels yours.

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=66901&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=70

Some posters here have said that Asimov's views are as untenable as any theist, but I have taken the position that Asimov's atheism is not "hard atheism". In fact I said he contradicts himself (at least if you were to apply the Frank Apisa definition of Atheism).

I am going for Skeptical Agnostic = soft agnostic = Asimov's position = Timberlandko position = a rose by any other name.

Asimov is a SF God

It seems I am in very good company.

0 Replies

edgarblythe wrote:

Deists and agnostics think atheists should have answers to concepts originated to promote religion before they can honestly call themselves atheists. Those are all straw dogs arguments. People dreamed up religion and gods and have the gall to say, "Prove otherwise," and people strain their brains to comply. Why should I have to prove these figments of the imagination are or are not anything? Frank will say, "Well, you just don't know." That's bullcrap. It's the same as someone saying, " My Barbie doll talks to me and performs miracles. I know it's real, because I have experienced it." We don't have to perform all these intellectual excercises to recognize hocum when it appears.

Precisely. Inventing the 'agnostic' position was the most clever thing the theists ever did. What would otherwise be rejected outright for the obvious bullcrap it is get's promoted to the realm of 'maybe', where it really doesn't belong without any evidence.

0 Replies

No religious beliefs for me! I've seen many, and none passed the muster. If any religion comes close, it's buiddhism just because my wife is one. In buddhism, one can become god - by improving themselves and not worrying about what others do. Nobody in christianity can become god or jesus, and they're always trying to "convert" others to their dogma that hasn't been shown to improve anything. History is a tough lesson.

0 Replies

cicerone imposter wrote:

No religious beliefs for me! I've seen many, and none passed the muster. If any religion comes close, it's buiddhism just because my wife is one. In buddhism, one can become god - by improving themselves and not worrying about what others do. Nobody in christianity can become god or jesus, and they're always trying to "convert" others to their dogma that hasn't been shown to improve anything. History is a tough lesson.

I thought buddism was cool once. I found the whole 'make yourself into nothing' and striving to 'obliterate' the ego to be rather anti-human and against my grain though.Having researched many religions and beliefs, only one 'religion' has ever been in accord with the way I see things.

0 Replies

Doktor, No buddhist has to become a monk. There are buddhists that live "normal" lives, but believe in doing no harm to others and all living things. That's the basic premise of buddhism. One doesn't need to "make yourself into nothing."

0 Replies

Ya, but why live it half assed?
If you follow only the tenets of budhism you enjoy, are you really a budhist?
I mean, the 'four noble truths' are pretty central to the religion, and that is the core of the 'anti-human' element I was describing.

0 Replies

Quote:

Doktor S wrote:
We are differing in a great deal more than just semantics, Doc. We are worlds apart in this.

The distinction seems to be that you lend credence to the possibility of the theist position, while I do not.

We are differing to a much greater degree than that, Doc.

You are asserting that you, as an atheist, stop after simply asserting "I do not believe in gods." You are asserting that you are not adding, "I believe there are no gods."

But as I said earlier...the lyrics and the music simply do not match up.

It is obvious to anyone reading your posts that YOU DO NOT STOP after simply asserting "I do not believe in gods."

You ARE certain there are no gods...or you would not be saying all the other stuff you are saying.

In fact, up above you actually say "...you lend credence to the possibility of the theist position, while I do not."

In other words...it is your contention there is NO POSSIBILITY of there being gods.

That most assuredly is going beyond just "I do not believe in gods."

If you want to think that is a semantic difference...or a minor "distinction"...do so. But it is not.

Fact is, the contention that atheists are simply folks who do not believe in gods...and nothing else should be inferred...is blather.

0 Replies

Doktor S wrote:

edgarblythe wrote:
Deists and agnostics think atheists should have answers to concepts originated to promote religion before they can honestly call themselves atheists. Those are all straw dogs arguments. People dreamed up religion and gods and have the gall to say, "Prove otherwise," and people strain their brains to comply. Why should I have to prove these figments of the imagination are or are not anything? Frank will say, "Well, you just don't know." That's bullcrap. It's the same as someone saying, " My Barbie doll talks to me and performs miracles. I know it's real, because I have experienced it." We don't have to perform all these intellectual excercises to recognize hocum when it appears.

Precisely. Inventing the 'agnostic' position was the most clever thing the theists ever did. What would otherwise be rejected outright for the obvious bullcrap it is get's promoted to the realm of 'maybe', where it really doesn't belong without any evidence.

Further evidence of what I have been saying.

There is no "maybe" in your mind.

The contention that you do not go beyond "I do not believe in gods"...is bullshyt.

0 Replies

And remember...it is documented that "the agnostic position" was "invented" by an atheist...not by theists.

But there is a certain amount of joy one gets when he sees an opponent getting desparate.

0 Replies

You are all cruel and heartless bastards!
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Thankfully Smile

0 Replies

Quote:

You ARE certain there are no gods...or you would not be saying all the other stuff you are saying.

LoL..ok oh great omnicient reader of minds! You really know very little about me, and I find your assertion that you grasp my motivations a little bit humorous Razz

I am as certain there are no Gods as I am as certain that a 3 legged snake isn't right now tapdancing on the moon.
The problem as I now see it is that your mind seems to work on a fundamentally different level than mine. You see 'there is' and 'there is not' to be equal but oposite propositions, while I do not..because it is illogical to do so.
You , my friend, are not here for discussion, you are here to preach.
We have ourselves an agnostic preacher.
I have completely lost interest in you.

Quote:

But there is a certain amount of joy one gets when he sees an opponent getting desparate.

Agreed. a good indicator of desparation is spitting out several spurious posts in a row to the same poster, or focusing your whole a2k experience on one poster.
I'm seeing the signs Razz

0 Replies

Doktor S wrote:

Quote:

You ARE certain there are no gods...or you would not be saying all the other stuff you are saying.

LoL..ok oh great omnicient reader of minds! You really know very little about me, and I find your assertion that you grasp my motivations a little bit humorous
I am as certain there are no Gods as I am as certain that a 3 legged snake isn't right now tapdancing on the moon.
The problem as I now see it is that your mind seems to work on a fundamentally different level than mine. You see 'there is' and 'there is not' to be equal but oposite propositions, while I do not..because it is illogical to do so.
You , my friend, are not here for discussion, you are here to preach.
We have ourselves an agnostic preacher.
I have completely lost interest in you.

You haven't lost interest, Doc...you have realized that you have bitten off much, much more than you can chew.

If you want to run away...run away. If want to rationalize why you are running...you'd better do a hell of a lot better than this.

Quote:

Quote:

But there is a certain amount of joy one gets when he sees an opponent getting desparate.

Agreed. a good indicator of desparation is spitting out several spurious posts in a row to the same poster, or focusing your whole a2k experience on one poster.
I'm seeing the signs

You're "seeing signs" alright. Signs that you are in over your head.

0 Replies

It doesn't matter who invented the term. An agnostic is simply caught in a web spun by deists and doesn't seem to know it.

0 Replies

edgarblythe wrote:

It doesn't matter who invented the term. An agnostic is simply caught in a web spun by deists and doesn't seem to know it.

An agnostic is doing what neither theists nor atheists have the guts or sense of honesty to do...

...to acknowledge the he/she does not know what he/she does not know...

...and not to pretend there is sufficient evidence for the belief system both theist and atheist need.

0 Replies

That's what agnostics believe. That doesn't make them correct.

0 Replies

edgar, Good point. If there's no evidence to prove something, saying "we don't know" is no better or worse than the "3-legged snake," but I'm with Doktor about being certain there are no gods. I can also believe in Santa Clause which is more plausable than any god; perhaps not the one we acknowledge every christmas, but the idea is more true, because we can observe it. There's nothing to prove any god exists, except through religion.

0 Replies

Okay...this idiot is going to require that I deal with you two also. I was hoping to avoid this, but...

The atheistic position is a joke. Pure blind guesses...not appreciably different from the pure, blind guesses that the theists make. In fact, the only difference is that they guess one way...and you guys guess the other.

It is pathetic that both cannot simply acknowledge that the reality of existence is beyond our comprehension at this point in our evolution (hell, we've only just come down out of the trees)...and any guesses about what must be included or must be excluded are childish and absurd.

0 Replies

edgarblythe wrote:

That's what agnostics believe.

I didn't express any "belief" there, Edgar. You are one of the "believers"...not I.

Quote:

That doesn't make them correct.

Keep that in mind.

0 Replies

Frank, We've just learned to come down out of the trees, and science is still in its infancy.

It's only a "guess" when an individual can find the answer to a question posed. There is no way to answer the question, "is there a god?" That's not even guessing; it's pure speculation without any hopes of finding the answer.

When there is no hope of finding the answer to a question, it is safe to assume no such thing exists. Saying, there might be a god doesn't clarify anything. It just hangs up there in limbo.

The reality of our existence is what we learn and live; no more, no less. The bigger questions of why is for the philosophers to answer. Most of us understand only our own world.

We must decide and determine what is real and not real during our lifetime. I have seen nothing to show any god exists; therefore, I have concluded that there is no god.

0 Replies

c i

Good analysis of the word "guess". The usage context of any word is indeed part of its meaning.

0 Replies

The Spiritual and/or Religious beliefs of an Atheist

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know