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The Spiritual and/or Religious beliefs of an Atheist

 
 
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 07:10 pm
What are they?
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 07:17 pm
In my case, there are none.
0 Replies
 
Terry
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 07:27 pm
Spiritual beliefs vary. No religious beliefs, at least not in gods, goddesses, angels, demons, ghosts, and other supernatural beings.
0 Replies
 
Greyfan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 08:21 pm
Atheists have no pope, no shaman, no bible.

They are thus forced to decide issues for themselves, rather than deferring to a central authority.

Not surprisingly, they end up in a lot of different places.
0 Replies
 
Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 08:30 pm
As I once posted elsewhere in the hope of being called on it by an agnostic (namely Frank, but Frank had left the building).....any other agnostics feel like tackling it, please do.


Quote:
The logic that leads me to conclude that it is highly unlikely that any gods have ever existed is basically Occam's Razor.

I see no evidence of any gods.

The universe needs no gods to be exactly as it is. That is to say it is entirely possible to have come about from the big bang without any intelligent direction.

I know that if humans did evolve that inventing gods would be an inevitable consequence of unexplained phenomena.

In other words if we assume there are no gods, would we still invent them?....yes, we would.

I look at all the religions of the world and without exception the mythologies fit the cultures of the people...similarities exist between the religions to the extant that you would expect...but no more than that.

Then there are the paradoxes that preclude things such as omniscience, omnipotence and benevolence co-existing.

Then there are the many MANY reasons why belief in gods prospers...fear of death, the redress of wrongs, the return to loved ones, etc, etc.

Then there is the simple problem of the gods increasingly unnecessary role in unexplained phenomena...no paranormal explanation has ever been proven for anything.
Sure many things remain unexplained but it seems extremely unlikely that suddenly a god will be required to explain any of them. Every day for hundreds of years another mystery gets crossed of the list...turns out - no gods involved.

What was "before" the big bang is a mystery...for a god to have existed "before" that would only complicate the problem more, not solve it!

Perhaps gods do exist, the ones that go to extraordinary lengths to conceal their involvement...the ones who created an entire universe just to test our "faith".

So ultimately I can never prove that no gods exist, but a quick swish of the Razor shows me "beyond reasonable doubt" that there are no gods.

Yes, it's a guess, I know....but it's a guess I would stake my life on any day of the week.

I guess that's why I am prepared to be an atheist despite the impossibility of proof for non-existence.


When it comes to spirit... I was persuaded (by JL Nobody) that spirit exists to the extent that my presence alters reality and continues to do so in my absence.
0 Replies
 
Doktor S
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 08:59 pm
Barticus,
This is a common theme I see coming from the christian front..that being the bifurcation of christian vs atheist.
These are not equal but opposite positions, they are wholly different. While a christian is a christian because he/she subscribes to a whole bevy of tenets/dogma, an atheist is an atheist simply because he/she doesn't believe in god/s.

The whole spectrum of opinions that is prefabricated for christians is not so for atheists, as there is no atheist dogma aside from 'there is no god'. This leaves the atheist free to form his own opinions about spirituality/religion.

Take me for instance. I see religion as a useful psychological construct probably based in evolutionary biology. Many professed atheists would not agree with this. I see spirituality as completely bogus and nothing more than fantastic tripe, where many atheists see themselves as 'spiritual', just without god.

In short, the simple answer you are seeking just doesn't exist.
0 Replies
 
Bartikus
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jan, 2006 02:16 am
I was'nt seeking a simple answer. I guess this means that just because people are atheist....it does'nt mean they see things in the same ways.

Atheists are divided on many issues. No robots with exact programming.

Reminds me of other groups of people who have their differences amongst each other.

The whole spectrum of opinions that is prefabricated for christians is not so for atheists, as there is no atheist dogma aside from 'there is no god'. This leaves the atheist free to form his own opinions about spirituality/religion.

Maybe the only simple answers that exist are the ones we come up with or agree with!?

In short, the simple answer you are seeking just doesn't exist.

Maybe only in our own mind....right dok?
0 Replies
 
Einherjar
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jan, 2006 05:34 am
Eorl wrote:
As I once posted elsewhere in the hope of being called on it by an agnostic (namely Frank, but Frank had left the building).....any other agnostics feel like tackling it, please do.


Quote:
The logic that leads me to conclude that it is highly unlikely that any gods have ever existed is basically Occam's Razor.

I see no evidence of any gods.

The universe needs no gods to be exactly as it is. That is to say it is entirely possible to have come about from the big bang without any intelligent direction.

I know that if humans did evolve that inventing gods would be an inevitable consequence of unexplained phenomena.

In other words if we assume there are no gods, would we still invent them?....yes, we would.

I look at all the religions of the world and without exception the mythologies fit the cultures of the people...similarities exist between the religions to the extant that you would expect...but no more than that.

Then there are the paradoxes that preclude things such as omniscience, omnipotence and benevolence co-existing.

Then there are the many MANY reasons why belief in gods prospers...fear of death, the redress of wrongs, the return to loved ones, etc, etc.

Then there is the simple problem of the gods increasingly unnecessary role in unexplained phenomena...no paranormal explanation has ever been proven for anything.
Sure many things remain unexplained but it seems extremely unlikely that suddenly a god will be required to explain any of them. Every day for hundreds of years another mystery gets crossed of the list...turns out - no gods involved.

What was "before" the big bang is a mystery...for a god to have existed "before" that would only complicate the problem more, not solve it!

Perhaps gods do exist, the ones that go to extraordinary lengths to conceal their involvement...the ones who created an entire universe just to test our "faith".

So ultimately I can never prove that no gods exist, but a quick swish of the Razor shows me "beyond reasonable doubt" that there are no gods.

Yes, it's a guess, I know....but it's a guess I would stake my life on any day of the week.

I guess that's why I am prepared to be an atheist despite the impossibility of proof for non-existence.


When it comes to spirit... I was persuaded (by JL Nobody) that spirit exists to the extent that my presence alters reality and continues to do so in my absence.


I tried this once, and I'll have you know you didn't miss much. Frank just refuses to follow this line of argument, demanding in each post either evidence or surrender, and repeating "absence of proof does not constitute proof of absence".

I don't think he ever got the gist of my argument.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jan, 2006 05:46 am
Einherjar
I for one see it your way.
0 Replies
 
Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jan, 2006 07:22 pm
Einherjar, Edgar, yeah I had been down that road with him too, and I was close to the brink of surrender in the sense that ultimately I think he is right...but his position leaves him powerless to think or act effectively in any given direction. How can he avoid being made a philosophical Vichy France? It's a conflict within my own mind that I would love to "argue out" more fully.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Feb, 2006 08:07 am
Eorl wrote:
As I once posted elsewhere in the hope of being called on it by an agnostic (namely Frank, but Frank had left the building).....any other agnostics feel like tackling it, please do.


Quote:
The logic that leads me to conclude that it is highly unlikely that any gods have ever existed is basically Occam's Razor.

I see no evidence of any gods.

The universe needs no gods to be exactly as it is. That is to say it is entirely possible to have come about from the big bang without any intelligent direction.

I know that if humans did evolve that inventing gods would be an inevitable consequence of unexplained phenomena.

In other words if we assume there are no gods, would we still invent them?....yes, we would.

I look at all the religions of the world and without exception the mythologies fit the cultures of the people...similarities exist between the religions to the extant that you would expect...but no more than that.

Then there are the paradoxes that preclude things such as omniscience, omnipotence and benevolence co-existing.

Then there are the many MANY reasons why belief in gods prospers...fear of death, the redress of wrongs, the return to loved ones, etc, etc.

Then there is the simple problem of the gods increasingly unnecessary role in unexplained phenomena...no paranormal explanation has ever been proven for anything.
Sure many things remain unexplained but it seems extremely unlikely that suddenly a god will be required to explain any of them. Every day for hundreds of years another mystery gets crossed of the list...turns out - no gods involved.

What was "before" the big bang is a mystery...for a god to have existed "before" that would only complicate the problem more, not solve it!

Perhaps gods do exist, the ones that go to extraordinary lengths to conceal their involvement...the ones who created an entire universe just to test our "faith".

So ultimately I can never prove that no gods exist, but a quick swish of the Razor shows me "beyond reasonable doubt" that there are no gods.

Yes, it's a guess, I know....but it's a guess I would stake my life on any day of the week.

I guess that's why I am prepared to be an atheist despite the impossibility of proof for non-existence.


When it comes to spirit... I was persuaded (by JL Nobody) that spirit exists to the extent that my presence alters reality and continues to do so in my absence.


Well...you say so many things with which I agree, Erol...I feel disappointed you conclude on a note with which I disagree completely.

In effect, you made a strong argument that we do not know if there are gods or not...and that the guesses (beliefs) that theistic guesses that there are gods are unnecessary, predictable, and defective. You then went on to make an unnecessary, predictable, and defective guess in the other direction.

Every indication is that the answer to the question, "What is 'this' all about...and how did it come to be?"...can only be logically and truthfully be answered: Beats the shyt out of me.

Every guess about it is as silly as any other.

While I was gone, I got involved in two atheist sites.

Both were jokes...with as much "belief", rationalization and condescension as found at any fundamentalist site.

It has become apparent to me that except for atheists like Edgar...most atheists have given up the ghost and adopted agnostic positions...but have done so in a duplicitous way so that they can retain the designation "atheist."

Hope this is a good jumping off point for a discussion. Thanks for inviting me.


Bartikus...atheism is not a religion...although it often is a belief system.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Feb, 2006 08:14 am
There are those of minimal comprenhension that will put love against hate, they are a silly geese. These self-same non-thinkers put "religious beliefs" into atheism. The only counter to love or hate is apathy.
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Feb, 2006 08:35 am
Frank wrote:
...most atheists have given up the ghost and adopted agnostic positions...but have done so in a duplicitous way so that they can retain the designation "atheist."


Over many discussions, I have come to the conclusion that I am an atheistic agnostic. Atheistic, in the sense that my life is run without the relationship to any God. Atheistic, ergo, without God. Agnostic, because
I realize that I don't have the foggiest idea as to whether a god exists of not, and frankly, I don't care.

Frank, I don't see, that by by definition, as I see it, that I am being duplicitous. In fact, while you were away, I had started a thread where I was exploring the concept of "apatheism", a neologism which resonated within me. Think that you might find it interesting.


http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=63888
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Feb, 2006 08:48 am
The intellectually crippling effect of the religionist mindset is no better evidenced than in the inability of religionists - particularly those subscribing to the Fundamentalist Protestant Christian subset of the religions of the Abrahamic Mythopaeia - to conceptualize the absence of superstition and wishful thinking as other than superstition and wishful thinking different from their own.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Feb, 2006 08:55 am
BTW - Personally, I'm a devout, practicing Apathist, passionate about not giving a damn.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Feb, 2006 09:36 am
Oh-I don't know about that timber.

Many's the time on the ID thread you have given me the impression of caring passionately for the content of science lessons in your schools.

Were you having us on?
0 Replies
 
vinsan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Feb, 2006 10:36 am
Re: The Spiritual and/or Religious beliefs of an Atheist
Bartikus wrote:
What are they?


Humanity. That's it.
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Feb, 2006 11:03 am
Bartikus,

Some atheists have had meditational experience. You asked for spiritual "beliefs", but "belief" is not the way I would describe glimpses of levels of consciousness in which "self" is transcended. Indeed in such a "state" beliefs cannot be "held" for there is no holder !

Some may describe transcendental/spiritual states as being "godlike" where "god/love" is the best description one might give of the "dissipation of self" or "the merging with with cosmic consciousness". But such phrases do not do justice to what is essentially experiential and ineffable.

The arguments that such states may be "chemical" or "self hypnotic" cannot be ruled out from a "naive reality" position on "science", and indeed such might be the claim regarding "religious experiences". However, whatever the origin of such experiences, the difference is that spiritual/transcendental experiences are not prescriptive in terms of subsequent actions since the actor (self) has been removed.
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Feb, 2006 11:04 am
well, In case y'all were wondering. I'm as atheistic as it's possible to be, given that science is ongoing. However, I don't look for any controlled studies on the existence of God any time soon.

I think it's highly unlikely, higher and higher that a personal God exists. But I think I've said that before.......ah well. Hi Spendi.

Oh I see, this is your thread Frank. I shoulda known. It's a good idea.
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Feb, 2006 11:08 am
Do I have something called spirituality? I have great respect for what is......whatever that is. But I don't get too carried away with it. All that mushy stuff sort of turns me off.
0 Replies
 
 

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