Mexico wants to dictate US Immigration Policy

More important is why so many Americans want them here.

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JustWonders wrote:

Various reasons. Political, economical.

Sometimes they have nothing to go back to.

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There are mechanisms in place to come to the U.S. to work without entering illegally. And without staying. One of the HUGE problems with illegals is that every one of females of child bearing age is either carrying or pushing a carriage containing a new U.S. citizen with no health insurance.

Been there seen that. Dropout after 8th grade with no English skills, pregant or working for construction or yard services, after sucking the education budget (for what purpose?).

At some point, long ago, the pain became worse than the gain. Some just can't see that.

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CJ,

I won't accuse you of racism (since you will just say I lost the argument). But you must know that your knee-jerk assumption that the children of immigrants will "dropout after 8th grade with no English skills, pregant or working for construction..." is a very negative stereotype that is not supported by facts.

I live in a community with a significant population of undocumented immigrants. All of them go to school and most do well. Of all of the undocumented immigrants I know, not one of them has a child that doesn't speak English (it is harder for the parents).

If you treat people (immigrants or not) with respect, they will become successful regardless of their race or national origin.

It is laugably ironic that you make the last post, and then oppose giving a tuition break to undocumented immigrant students who have the ability and desire to go to college.

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I think a lot of you agree with the Central American governments... you want a legal migrant worker program so we don't have a lot of undocumented immigrants floating around. That way everyone has documents, etc. There are mechanisms for that now, they just need to be expanded to meet the reality of the demand. Once you do this, there is little need to send the National Guard to patrol the border and build fences for hundred of miles.

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I have a friend that teaches in a charter school that consists mostly of students with hispanic origins. He himself was born and educated in Mexico and came to the US legally many years ago with a college education. He loves to talk of the days when Mexico City was a beautiful thriving city full of wealth and culture.

He claims that most of the students in his classes (high school level) can not even speak, let alone read and right, proper Spanish. He says that most of them speak a regional dialect of Spanish and can't understand proper Spanish. Most have behavior problems and don't even try to learn.

He says he sees what is happening in the US today as exactly like what happened in Mexico back when he was growing up. These are the people that do nothing but use the system. They don't work. They don't learn. They commit crimes. They move into an area, use the resources up until there is nothing left and move on to someplace else.

He gives the US 10 more years before it ends up just as corupt as Mexico.

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Thanks, nimh.

I agree with ebrown. Most of the immigrants come here seeking better lives for themselves and their families. As did our ancestors. After all, we're all beneficiaries of immigration of some sort, however many generations ago. Of the half million that were sworn in last year, most will do very well here. They'll enrich our country economically and culturally and will probably end up being more patriotic than most who were born here.

We'll admit more this year, but I believe we could do better. We're a large and very rich country. We should focus on finding ways to let them all in....legally.

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That's not my experience JP.

In our high school there is a strong community of students from Spanish Speaking families and a thriving program to support them.

Most of the kids in the program speak better English than Spanish, but they are very motivated to learn. Most of them are good students and plan to go to college. I know at least a couple of them are undocumented.

The teacher who leads this program is a very enthusiastic-- teaching both modern culture and proper grammar.

I am sorry for your friends experience, but it is a reflection of the community that he is in, rather than the nation as a whole.

Immigrants have always had motivation, In spite of the stereotypes, Latino immigrants are hardworking and resourceful. Most Latino families strongly value education. There are undocumented high school students who are winning scholarships (that they can't use them is a sad topic for another post).

With a strong supportive community immigrants of any race or culture have been, and continue to be successful.

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ebrown_p wrote:

CJ,

I won't accuse you of racism (since you will just say I lost the argument). But you must know that your knee-jerk assumption that the children of immigrants will "dropout after 8th grade with no English skills, pregant or working for construction..." is a very negative stereotype that is not supported by facts.

Just an observation supported by everyone else who lived in my former California community before the alien invasion of that city truly began five years ago. What was a nice town is now rife with gang activity, drugs, and constant theft (we lost several bikes out of our front yard while we were inside the house). The gangs also like to hide their drug caches on private property without consent of the owner, which can be quite disconcerting when the good and honest people have been disarmed and castrated by their own government (yep, back to guns).

Such nice folks those illegal aliens.

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I'd be willing to bet jp's friend lives and teaches in a border state, where the situation becomes very complicated with the numbers of illegals crossing and the drain on their resources. They have some valid complaints which need to be addressed sooner rather than later.

I think the "fence" idea is ridiculous, though.

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ebrown_p wrote:

I am sorry for your friends experience, but it is a reflection of the community that he is in, rather than the nation as a whole.

Isn't this statement true about your experience as well?

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JustWonders wrote:

I'd be willing to bet jp's friend lives and teaches in a border state, where the situation becomes very complicated with the numbers of illegals crossing and the drain on their resources. They have some valid complaints which need to be addressed sooner rather than later.

I think the "fence" idea is ridiculous, though.

'

You'd lose that bet.

Milwaukee, WI... closer to the Canadian border than the Mexican boder.

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JP's situation is inidicative of something few people seem to recognize--Hispanic immigrants, whether or not legally entered into this country, are everywhere in this country.

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jpinMilwaukee wrote:

JustWonders wrote:
I'd be willing to bet jp's friend lives and teaches in a border state, where the situation becomes very complicated with the numbers of illegals crossing and the drain on their resources. They have some valid complaints which need to be addressed sooner rather than later.

I think the "fence" idea is ridiculous, though.
'

You'd lose that bet.

Milwaukee, WI... closer to the Canadian border than the Mexican boder.

Whew (glad it wasn't the ranch I bet on). Smile

It did sound like the experiences of some of my friends' border state experiences, and although I realize that many states share the burdens, most of the "illegals" are concentrated in Cali, AZ, NM and TX.

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Setanta wrote:

JP's situation is inidicative of something few people seem to recognize--Hispanic immigrants, whether or not legally entered into this country, are everywhere in this country.

Acknowledging the risk of correcting Setanta on a point of history, but I believe Hispanic immigrants were here before the English speaking ones.

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roger wrote:

I demand documentation of undocumented American workers in Mexico.

The U.S. Embassy in Mexico estimates that there are some 600,000 American expatriates residing in Mexico. The Democratic and Republican Party representatives in Mexico both estimate over 1 million U.S. citizens qualified to vote in Mexico.

Link

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general tendency with immigrants of any origin - by the third generation most of them are english monolingual. and know spanish or other languages only as their second language (this from christine rossell, with whom i taught public policy - her research on bilingual education).

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mysteryman wrote:

Quote:
"Migrants shouldn't be treated as criminals regardless of their status".

If they are here illegally,then they ARE criminals.

In the narrow sense, a crime is a violation of criminal law; in many nations, there are criminal standards of bad behaviour. However, not all violations of the law are considered crimes.

The following are crimes in many jurisdictions:

Arson
Assault
Battery
Blackmail
Breaking and entering
Burglary
Cannibalism
"Carjacking"
Child sexual abuse
Counterfeiting
Conspiracy
Criminal threatening
Domestic violence
Drug possession
Embezzlement
Espionage
Extortion
Forgery
Fraud
Genocide
Grave robbing
Homicide
Home invasion
Identity theft
Illegal gambling
Kidnapping
Larceny
Libel
Looting
Manslaughter
Murder
Perjury
Postal fraud
Prostitution
Racketeering
Rape
Robbery
Slander
Smuggling
Stalking
Tax evasion
Theft
Treason
Trespass
Usury
Vandalism
Weapon possession

Illegal entry has not yet been added in the US federal laws. The Chamber of Representatives approved an initiative to do so, hence the Mexican and other Latin American governments' reaction.

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cjhsa wrote:

I agree Mexico has the right to argue in favor of its nationals. The question I have, is why doesn't Mexico want them back?

We say we would glady have them back, but it's not true. At least not most of them.
They're too many, and this would bring social tensions in the medium run.

Migration to the US works as a releaser of social pressure, here.

My opínion is that it has also helped the US in several senses (I will not abound): but it is also clear that it has caused tensions and resentment in several zones of the US.

I advocate a broadening of legal migration, which will also ease the border (and also racial and cultural) tension.

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On language skills:

Totally agree with Dagmaraka. And jp and ebrownp can both be correct, even if there are not "regional dialects" of Spanish in Mexico.

Some Mexican migrants lose fastly their ability to speak Spanish correctly, while not learning English properly. It happens to Cubans and Puerto Ricans, too, so it's not "genetic". Others, maintain for a generation or two a good standard in Spanish and become completely bilingual. A generation later they are monolingual in English, and speak only bits of Spanish (like the descendants of Germans, Italians, Swedish, Ukranians and such did). It's also a matter of education.

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Mexico wants to dictate US Immigration Policy

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