"Reverse" Racism

Letty, Good idea, but that's not about to happen in the US. We know what happens to jury selection when it's a black defendent. If they ever study the statistics, they'll find that black jury members are tougher on blacks than otherwise. (I think I read that someplace many years ago.)

Oh, I misunderstood. I thought you meant they'd take up the cause of the offending company! I couldn't see that there'd be any legal basis for defending such blatant racism.


Please continue ......

An interesting article on black/white jurors and convictions of black defendants. http://www.chicagoreporter.com/2001/8-2001/jury/juryprint.htm

I believe it, C.I. Strange, the movie that I watched last evening concerning Clint Eastwood, and titled True Crime, deals with cj's thread, as did Crash2005.

Well, I'm off to play a song on WA2K radio that makes a real statement.

C.I. you get over to the Where Am I thread and bash them Hindu temples. <smile>

C.I.,

I'm curious as to what you think about the O.J. Simpson trial? It seems the verdict in this particular case would contradict your statement. Do you think it's because he was a celebrity?

MOAN is a pain in the butt. She's a stalker.

Cicerone Imposter,

I posted in this thread long before you did. I do not post in every thread you post in. Yes, I posted in a few to try to get you to answer a challenge that Doktor S finally took up.

I merely asked you a question regarding a statement you made. I was very curious about what your thoughts were. Just because I don't agree with everything you say does not mean you don't have anything worthwhile to say.

I am not a stalker. I do not appreciate you calling me names. And please, do not refer to me as MOAN. I ask you that with the utmost of respect.

The notion of "reverse racism" grew, I do believe, out of issues of affirmative action. It seems that middle class white candidates for colleges and universities have greater abilities to perform well on Educational Testing Service tests. But that does not necessarily predict academic success unless you're comparing the highest and the lowest scores. Middle class whites can have higher scores than those of lower class whites and blacks, but not necessarily higher than those of middle class blacks. I served for decades on university admission committees, and my colleagues and I generally refused to take ONLY GRE scores into account when making our graduate program admission decisions. In addition to test scores, GPAs, undergraduate faculty letters of recommendation, student letters of intention, examples of academic work and interviews were all taken as legitimate evidence. As such, a white student who protests a preference for a black candidate solely on the basis of test scores rarely had a leg to stand on. Sometimes it was only the assumption that he or she was "superior" and that the test score proved it.

Either and whatever if....my point is that discrimination and racism is not limited. It's out there and is practiced by some people of all races and backgrounds.

Do I think things are "getting better"? Sure. But I still see it everyday (not necessarily against me) and that is too much. I agree with what letty said....wouldn't it be nice if we weren't judged by and didn't judge others, by our appearance?

It would appear that there should be more committees like yours then.

Such committees are common . . . note, however, that he refers to applicants for graduate study . . .

JL, that graduate record exam was hilarious. Had it not been for my high verbal scores, I would have been quite embarrassed as I guessed at most of the questions in the math section. Upon consultation with the dept. head, I simply told him, " I didn't know the answers." Later, we all got a big chuckle out of the entire system of measurement. I ended up with a 3.8 which wasn't too bad, I guess.

Setanta, did you know that at one time there was a standardized Appalachian test, and my advisor took it. He later asked me what a "tater" was.

I likes taters, but i am too lazy to peel 'em . . .

I never tested well in school. Give me an essay test and I'd ace it, almost regardless of the subject. Give me a multiple choice and I'd blow it or just pass.

Bella Dea, I've been the same especially in grade school. I barely graduated from high school, but graduated in the top 25 percent of my class from college. Go figure.

In the 50s I took the post office test and passed it only by the skin of my teeth. I carrled mail (before going to college) for four years. One year five black men were hired during the Christmas rush and proved to be among the best in the station. The supervisor pulled strings to keep them on the job pending their passing of the federal test. They all failed it the first try but were kept on the job, performing spectacularly, sometimes carrying two routes in the time that I could carry one. After they failed the test for the second time, they were let go, to the great consternation of the supervisor and some of the carriers (including whites).
This experience proved to me the sometime stupidity of tests. In this case it was obvious that the test in question did not measure ability for performing as a mail man.
Our country may be infected with a kind of TESTOMANIA that has yet to prove its effectiveness. I suspect that one of its functions is to comply with a myth of objectivity, to give administrators, postal and educational, an excuse for hiring some and rejecting others. Numbers/scores are felt not to lie , to be OBJECTIVE measures of reality. But that is, in my experience, a shaky assumption. Some of our greatest disappointments in our graduate program were students who scored in the upper 90th percentiles.

exactly my point, JL.

Incidentally, cj. This has turned out to be a good thread because we have clarified several points of concern in the U.S. and perhaps other countries.

and Momma, I agree that people should NOT refer to you as moan, and you are NOT a stalker. Just as cj, you have your right to question and to comment.

Why does everybody gang up on a person just because they disagree?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Want to kill your enemy? Get him to hate someone.

I've been stalking C. I. for years now, and he hasn't even noticed. I'm painfully offended.

By the way, Setanta, it's good that you noticed that I was referring to graduate students. I should not ignore the problems with undergraduate recruitment. Undergrads are admitted rather carelessly on the basis of SAT scores and GPAs. If you'll forgive my anecdotal and autobiographical evidence, I could not get into the unversity because my first 12 years of schooling were a disaster. I never tried, and I was virtually blind (so myopic I could not see the blackboard, especially in math instruction). There was no way I would earn a high score on any kind of test. If it were not for the junior college system in California I would be digging ditches today. The community college system is a vital institution for catching people like me. After glowing in my junior college, where I enrolled at the old age of 28 (I earned all As, except for two Bs and a C in economics: always on the "Dean's List"), I went to UCLA where, as a recipient of two university scholarships, I graduated Magna Cum Laude, and was elected to Phi Beta Kappa and Pi Gamma Mu). Shortly afterwards I earned my Ph.D. at UCSD--later I gained tenure and retired from a major university).
My point is not to brag (although it did feel good--I think I did it before), but to show how our rather causal attitude toward undergraduate candidates (I would have been rejected by UCLA who later gave me the aforesaid honors) is another stupidity of our society.

JLN, I don't even notice when friends stalk me; I find it somewhat an honor.

I did the junior college track too, and ended up with a BS in Business Administration with a concentration in Accounting. I never progressed academically beyond my bachelors, but worked in management during most of my professional career after 3.5 years working as a traveling auditor. I not only enjoyed by jobs, but it paid well enough for us to retire very comfortably.

I count amongst my friends college professors, judges, doctors, lawyers, physicists, teachers, engineers, managers, and many others.

Considering my modest beginnings, I feel pretty proud too, because I never dreamed how life would end up so good after such a difficult beginning.

That my siblings and family have also accomplished so much in their lives is the extra bonus of my life.

C.I., congratulations to both of us, and blessings on the community college system.
I count among my enemies, college professors, judges, doctors, lawyers, physicists, teachers, engineers, managers, and many others. But I'm proud to say that I choose my enemies very carefully. I would feel myself a failure if they included people like you--and Letty and Setanta.