I'm an aethist....

fresco wrote:

Read Harris !

http://www.samharris.org/

Already did. I don't like what he has to say. I don't agree with him.

0 Replies

But you have to admit, he's got a point about fanatical muslims, don't you?

0 Replies

Kicky your still awake - wow

0 Replies

And to Bartikus,

My statement about science not being able to establish its own "origins" can be taken thus:

Science has hitherto been a tool for prediction and control. It sets the gold standard for "explanation" BUT the examination of our "urge to control" may reveal it to be an epiphenomonon of the general life process" which we call "cognition" or "forward planning". Such a view is epistemologically transcendent of "science" itself and also transcendent of "causal explanation" thereby eliminating the simplistic need for "a prime mover". Demands by atheists for "evidence of God" are therefore inappropriate whereas evidence for "God's non-existence" abounds in the pernicious chaos (=lack of control) which results from such a belief.

0 Replies

husker wrote:

Kicky your still awake - wow

I actually fell asleep for a while and then woke up and, like the addicted moron that I am, just HAD to log back on here and see what was going on. Okay, I'm going back to bed right...NOW!

0 Replies

Bartikus,

I forgot to add that you were correct in my original "purpose" but your conclusion implies "equality of position, which of course I claim you have failed to establish.

Young-thinker should perhaps note that "respect" follows from equality or expediency not "tolerance".

0 Replies

I just wanted a clear distinction drawn.

Most people who believe in an afterlife I believe do not approve of killing others. George Bush is not the spokesman for all who believe in Christ. He pointed out an evil act that was committed which most people can agree.

What George Bush did'nt realize or say is that carnal warfare cannot put an end to the evil. I'm not convinced of our military's effectiveness to deal with the problems facing the Middle East.

I wrote many letters to the President after 9/11 telling him that America should help Afghanistan and it's people. We should extend a hand of compassion....even to those who would seek to destroy us.

I get such 'looney' ideas from the words of Jesus Christ and yet there are those who seek to equate such a spirit with the same spirit that says "kill as many Jews and Infidels as possible and receive paradise with 72 virgins thrown in"!

I greatly fear for those who would equate them.

Jesus died on the cross weeping and praying....not for himself....but for those who sought to have him crucified!

I believe in an afterlife. But I also believe in an almighty God of justice who says "we shall reap whatever we sow"! May God have mercy on us all.

0 Replies

Barticus wrote:

Do you feel comfortable saying Mother Theresa is guilty by association based on her beliefs.....with a terrorist who goes to slaughter helpless children and elderly?

Don't start me on Mother Theresa. I, like most people, used to have the "warm fuzzies" about Mother Theresa. She was such an icon, and just about everybody loved her.

Then I read about an interview with her. Someone asked her, if a person with her influence, would not be doing a lot of good by introducing contraception, to the unthinkably poor in the areas in which she worked. Seems reasonable, huh? If the populace would stop producing hordes of kids, they might have a chance to rise above the grinding poverty with which they were saddled.

Wanna know what she said? "I am here to spread the word of God, and not a social worker!" As far as I am concerned, any credibility that she had was gone, in that moment. She had the clout, and the authority to make REAL changes in a poverty stricken area, and she chose not to........................As far as I am concerned, she really did not care about the people, and their miserable lives. All she wanted was more converts. Phooey!

Actually, in the places where she worked, she had a perfect population to spread her ideas. Horrible lives, grinding poverty. What better a group of people to "sell" an afterlife? This life stinks, so pray to God like good little children, so you'll get your reward in heaven. Double phooey!

0 Replies

I just wanted a clear distinction drawn.

Most people who believe in an afterlife I believe do not approve of killing others. George Bush is not the spokesman for all who believe in Christ. He pointed out an evil act that was committed which most people can agree.

What George Bush did'nt realize or say is that carnal warfare cannot put an end to the evil. I'm not convinced of our military's effectiveness to deal with the problems facing the Middle East.

I wrote many letters to the President after 9/11 telling him that America should help Afghanistan and it's people. We should extend a hand of compassion....even to those who would seek to destroy us.

I get such 'looney' ideas from the words of Jesus Christ and yet there are those who seek to equate such a spirit with the same spirit that says "kill as many Jews and Infidels as possible and receive paradise with 72 virgins thrown in"!

I greatly fear for those who would equate them.

Fresco said:
I forgot to add that you were correct in my original "purpose" but your conclusion implies "equality of position, which of course I claim you have failed to establish.

Are you sure Fresco?

If your beliefs include the concept of "the afterlife" then YOU can be deemed guilty by association of giving "support" to any lunatic who bases HIS violent actions in whole or in part on such a belief

You all decide!!! People of the likes of Mother Theresa are guilty? Her belief in Jesus led her to do wonderful things for humanity. You at least blur the lines between a spirit of love and hate!!

The only thing you can do at this point fresco is to admit your statement was wrong. Anyone who operates in love would forgive you fresco. Did you seek to make yourself look lovely at the cost of love itself?

Matthew 15:11
Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man. (KJV)

Mark
7:20 And he said, That which comes out of the man, that makes the man unclean.
7:21 Because from inside, from the heart of men, come evil thoughts and unclean pleasures,
7:22 The taking of goods and of life, broken faith between husband and wife, the desire of wealth, wrongdoing, deceit, sins of the flesh, an evil eye, angry words, pride, foolish acts:
7:23 All these evil things come from inside, and make the man unclean

Jesus died on the cross weeping and praying....not for himself....but for those who sought to have him crucified!

I believe in an afterlife. But I also believe in an almighty God of justice who says "we shall reap whatever we sow"! May God have mercy on us all.

0 Replies

Phoenix32890 wrote:

Barticus wrote:
Do you feel comfortable saying Mother Theresa is guilty by association based on her beliefs.....with a terrorist who goes to slaughter helpless children and elderly?

Don't start me on Mother Theresa. I, like most people, used to have the "warm fuzzies" about Mother Theresa. She was such an icon, and just about everybody loved her.

Then I read about an interview with her. Someone asked her, if a person with her influence, would not be doing a lot of good by introducing contraception, to the unthinkably poor in the areas in which she worked. Seems reasonable, huh? If the populace would stop producing hordes of kids, they might have a chance to rise above the grinding poverty with which they were saddled.

Wanna know what she said? "I am here to spread the word of God, and not a social worker!" As far as I am concerned, any credibility that she had was gone, in that moment. She had the clout, and the authority to make REAL changes in a poverty stricken area, and she chose not to........................As far as I am concerned, she really did not care about the people, and their miserable lives. All she wanted was more converts. Phooey!

Actually, in the places where she worked, she had a perfect population to spread her ideas. Horrible lives, grinding poverty. What better a group of people to "sell" an afterlife? This life stinks, so pray to God like good little children, so you'll get your reward in heaven. Double phooey!

I don't understand. Does this mean you do consider her guilty by association?

Mother Theresa did not care for them? What have you done for these populations of people? Mother Theresa surrendered all her material wealth to these people..not just to convert. To feed, clothe, shelter etc.

How much have you given to say such things?Phooey and double phooey?

Because of contraception alone? You may have had the warm fuzzies for her....I assure you.....you did not love her. I sure hope God will not judge the rest of humanity in the way that you have judged Mother Theresa!

Assuming that God approves of contraception...is this the only fault you have been able to find in her? Is it far less than in you?All credibility she had was gone because of this? How much credibility do you think you retain?

If She did have clout and authority in the areas she worked.....that clout and authority did not come from her....nor from men.....and especially not from you. It came from God.

I hope you receive far more mercy than you have given here.

Did you want her to approve of contraception so that your stand on this issue could remain justified?

0 Replies

Phoenix,

You surprise me with your post. Is this the only thing that you are upset about Mother Theresa? I hope there is more to it than this.

All the good that she did for this world and because she made that statement you now think it wasn't good because you doubt her motives? I am asking if this is how you feel. It's what I gather from your post but just wanted to make sure.

Did she actually say she was doing it to convert people or is that what you thought she meant? Perhaps her deeds were her way of spreading the word of God?

I have never heard this interview so I'm having to go on what you tell me here.

0 Replies

Both directly and indirectly mother teresa caused significant harm and suffering to those she ministered to.

0 Replies

Re: I'm an aethist....

real life wrote:

young_thinker wrote:
I'm only 14 but I've already decided that God doesn't exist. I believe religion was first created to explain what science could not (Example: Aurora Borealis, work of the Gods.), but after a while, men realized they could use religion to control people. Though I'm sure some of the morals they set in place were positive, I belive the overall effect of religion has made a negative impact on history. Before the Renaissance, religion was probably the most corrupt it has ever been. Paying the corrupt preachers so you wouldn't have to stay in Purgatory, and church officials telling people what to do and what not to do. Today, science has finally taken an upper hand over religion and we are progressing quickly in many feilds. I beleive we would be a little further ahead in some feilds of science if scientists in the 17th anf 16 century hadn't been forced to work under strict law.
Quite obviously, the above is mostly about Christianity, but other religions have been the same. I'm not trying to force my beliefs on anybody, just expressing my opinon, and I would like responders to do the same.

How did you prove God doesn't exist? Are you omniscient?

How do you prove that god exists? Are you omniscient?

0 Replies

dyslexia wrote:

Both directly and indirectly mother teresa caused significant harm and suffering to those she ministered to.

Could you elaborate on that, dyslexia?

0 Replies

real life wrote:

young_thinker wrote:
......... I think it is the strongest base that religiousman has to attack an aethiest.

Well, even assuming the Big Bang occurred ( a ' scientific miracle' occurring, as you termed it), the obvious question is:

where did the matter and energy that interacted in the Big Bang come from?

And you say it must be god, for lack of any other explanation. The typical theist cop-out.

0 Replies

Momma wrote:

You surprise me with your post. Is this the only thing that you are upset about Mother Theresa? I hope there is more to it than this.

No, that's it. And I think that it is very big. She had the clout, the power, money behind her, and the influence to affect real changes in the lives of the people to whom she ministered. And, IMO, she wasted it, by sticking to the "company line".

0 Replies

Phoenix32890 wrote:

Momma wrote:
You surprise me with your post. Is this the only thing that you are upset about Mother Theresa? I hope there is more to it than this.

No, that's it. And I think that it is very big. She had the clout, the power, money behind her, and the influence to affect real changes in the lives of the people to whom she ministered. And, IMO, she wasted it, by sticking to the "company line".

But Phoenix, she helped so many! She gave up everything for everyone else. This one thing now negates what she did? That just does not sound like you.

I realize it's a big thing. I do not discount it whatsoever, but it's one thing compared to how many things? Perhaps she felt she had enogh on her plate? Perhaps she honestly felt she was doing what God wanted her to do?

You don't think she effected any real changes in any of the lives she touched?

0 Replies

Momma- IMO, controlling birthrates was THE thing. How does one get out of poverty while having ever increasing mouths to feed? She had the opportunity to do something really valuable, but chose to let it go, because of her faith. I think that is unconscionable.

0 Replies

Phoenix32890 wrote:

Momma- IMO, controlling birthrates was THE thing. How does one get out of poverty while having every increasing mouths to feed? She had the opportunity to do something really valuable, but chose to let it go, because of her faith. I think that is unconscionable.

I understand how you feel. Thank you for answering my questions.

0 Replies

Phoenix32890 wrote:

Momma- IMO, controlling birthrates was THE thing. How does one get out of poverty while having ever increasing mouths to feed? She had the opportunity to do something really valuable, but chose to let it go, because of her faith. I think that is unconscionable.

Do you ever consider other methods of controlling birth rates?

There is another kind of poverty and other kinds of riches. There are those who have every kind of material wealth they could ever need and yet......are in dire poverty.

There are those who have little material wealth in this world who are as rich as kings.

No material goods can you take with you into the grave.

0 Replies

I'm an aethist....

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know