Don't Rule This Out

We are a sensitive bunch.

I believe it to be a hunch that can be easily dismissed.

it is when the answer to your question was already clearly stated in my opening post.....

I guess there's room for both of us to work that side of the street.... double the fun.... double the number of sharp sticks....

of course, that's just your opinion

This is typical of the type of horsie poop with which you smear threads at this site.

On an international scale of the political spectrum, all but a handful of Americans are considered conservative. Most people at this site who pay attention (some of the present company are, of course, excepted from such a group) are aware that in terms of the American political spectrum, i am to be considered a moderate--which is to say, that some of the positions i hold are considered liberal, and some conservative. On the international scale, however, that simply means i'm less conservative than a great many Americans, will still being conservative on such a scale. There remain a hard core of conservatives in this country who don't pay attention who continue to consider the label "liberal" to be an insult--so it appears that you are attempting to smear many of the members here.

There was no proposition to have been supported, this is a strawman of the particularly laughable appearance and feeble effectiveness with which you commonly regale us. I did not either state or imply that you have ever suggested that the terrorists are coming to get you. However, i have good contacts, and happen to know that you rally p!ss them off, and they are saving up to come get you. They have arranged for a rather dull hack saw to be left out in the rain and sun in a secluded grove near Kissimee, and will use that when they do you in.

Poke . . .

Poke, poke . . .

Poke, poke, poke . . .





Poke . . .

I have a hunch that BVT's hunch is ludicrous. Of course, this is just a hunch of mine, mind you. No real proof at this point.

For an intelligent man, you are not a very gracious loser.

projecting again Brandon?

This is particular idiocy . . . i've lost nothing . . . i have, however, been wonderfully amused . . . thank you, Brandon . . . you're one of a kind . . .

During the Washington administrationn there were accusations that Washington fully intended to set the Constitution aside so that he could reign as monarch. He was widely criticised for his imperial ways, being called "Excellancy", riding in a fancy coach, and making a "royal progress" through "his" dominions. Oh course that was all nonsense, but since no one had ever before volunarilly given up power the Americans of the time might be forgiven their cynicism.

Jefferson's Democratic-Republicans accused the Federalists generally of conspiring to retain power and the vote be damned. John Adams, Washington's shadow, was also accused of conspiring. Still perhaps forgivable since no political party (actually a new concept) had ever given up power with out a violent struggle.

Madison and Monroe had their own troubles, but Quincy "stole" the Presidency by an "infamous bargain" to keep Jackson from the Executive Chair. Jackson, of course, was widely accused of manipulating the system to his own ends. "King" Jackson and his gang pretty much controlled who would be President for a lot of years. Harrison defeated Van Buren largely due to the economic depression that resulted from Jackson's war on the Bank, but died almost before the trash could be swept up from the inagural celebration. Tyler, was despised by his Party, for his adherence to Jacksonian policies. Polk, "Young Hickory" "invaded" Mexico and sought to prevent Taylor from being elected. He failed.

Lincoln prosecuted an unpopular civil war, and greatly expanded Federal control over the populace. The telegraph was a government monopoly, and thus newspapers were censored. Governmental secrecy became a normal thing. Habeas Corpus was suspended by the President, but condemned as unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. The Great Writ was suspended anyway, and private citizens were arrested, held secretly, tried by military tribunals, and in some cases executed. Secret agents infiltrated all sorts of associations, and compiled reports on "disloyal" words and behavior. Democrats feared that Lincoln and the Union Party would cancel Presidential elections, and when the Army voted overwhelmingly for Lincoln and Johnson cries of foul play filled the air.

The Radical Republicans, the ones who were most dedicated to the destruction of slavery and the Plantation System, used Reconstruction to insure that the Democratic Party (largely concentrated in the hands of the Southern Elites) would be unable to become a powerful national party. They were pretty successful. Andrew Johnson was at least nominally a Democrat, though generally despised by both Parties. Cleveland managed to get elected after Arthur, and was a genial likeable fellow who didn't try to rock the boat. Ben Harrison "stole" the election, but was defeated after one term by Cleveland, the only person to have been elected twice with a recess between administrations.

Wilson, another Democrat, sent U.S. military forces into Mexico without a declaration of War to chase down Pancho Villa. Villa had staged the 9/11 of the early 20th century by attacking a small town in New Mexico. Wilson promised to keep the U.S. out of war, but eventually Congress voted War against Germany. Wilson used the opportunity to extend Federal power over the entire country. Wilson didn't formally suspend the Writ, but he had spies and agents infliltrated into many American groups. To criticize the war or the administration could get people into serious trouble. Wilson nationalized the railroads, mines and the timber industry. He cracked down on labor organizations and carried out the first ruthless raids against the small American Communist Party. Many of Wilson's policies were blatantly unconstitutional, but the country was saved from having a Queen Wilson by the election of an incompetent Harding.

FDR is another President that was widely believed to be aiming for perpetual power. No one has ever served as President for so long. FDR instituted a host of Federal Programs, almost all of which were found to be unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. FDR tried to "pack" the Court with Judges who would support his policies by expanding the number of Judges to sit on the Supreme Bench. Much of the aid that the U.S. extended to Britain was done secretly on FDRs orders. There are still folks who believe that FDR was involved in the assasination of Huey Long, and that FDR "set-up" Pearl Harbor to get the country into war. Did the U.S. escape loss of Constutional rights by the ill health and death of FDR, or was the whole conspiracy theory just so much paranoia?

What can be said that folks don't already know about Nixon?

The bottom line is that these conspiracy theories have existed thoughout our political history. Time and again, the Party out of power siezes upon some incident/event/policy and spin it into the death of the Republic. During times of national crisis, Presidents have always assumed great powers (often at odd with the strictest interpretations of the Constitution). During such times our citizenry is restive and anxious at the risks we run. Extremists and conspiracy theorists get more attention than they do during quiet times. Always the Constituion wins out in the end, and as the crisis passes things return pretty much to "normalcy".

After a little while some of the most dangerous policies and administrations become national icons. Washington's reputation today makes the nay-sayers of his generation seem nit-pickers. Jackson was the great standard bearer of the Democratic Party for a hundred years, and most of his faults forgiven and forgotten. Who today would accuse the Great Emancipator of crimes against the Constitution? Is Wilson, The Great Peacemaker, ever remembered for his trampling on civil rights? FDR and LBJ, both expanded Federal and Presidential powers far beyond anything that had gone before. Socialist elements in our society date mostly from those two administrations. J.Edgar became a monster during the FDR administration, but do we blame Roosevelt today?

Lighten up. Have a little faith in the strength and durability of the Constituion and our political system. Give a little credit to all those citizens who somehow manage to live happy lives without being famous, or members of the intellectual elite in New York or California.

gwb and gang has completely broken my faith in the reliability and intentions of government.

John Adams used the infamous "XYZ affair," and the rabble rousing slogan "Millions for defense, not one penny for tribute" to whip up electoral fear in Congress, and ram the Alien and Sedition Act through. He then used what he alleged were the powers the Act gave him to lock up newspaper publishers and editors critical of his administration. The second President of the United States, Adams was also the first single term President. The 1800 election came down to a squabble in the Democratic Republican Party--Adams didn't even make it over the event horizon.

You worry too much, Bear . . .

What about Taft? How come no one ever talks about Taft?

would that be "bath-tub Taft" Gus? The lady diane and I were talking about him just last night.

That would be him.

After Admiral Dewey took out the Spanish fleet at Manila Bay in 1898, the army landed under the command of Arthur MacArthur--the "Boy Colonel" of the Civil War, and winner of the Congressional Medal of Honor, as well as father of Douglas MacArthur, who was still at West Point then.

McKinley sent out William Howard Taft to be the civilian administrator because of complaints about MacArthur's heavy handed policies. Taft and MacArthur hated one another immensely. In the petty manner of such feuds between grown men, MacArthur took to ridiculing Taft for his girth--the man stood 6 feet 4 inches tall, and weighed in the neighborhood of three hundred pounds. Every time MacArthur wrote to the war department, he requested more cavalry remounts, on the contention that horses broke down after being ridden once by Taft.

Re: Don't Rule This Out


Out of curiousity, do you see black helicopters circling overhead when you get up in the morning???

Re: Don't Rule This Out


it is what it is bubba.... I never was paranoid about our government until bush and I was an adult in the Nixon years....