Germans To Put Muslims Through "Loyalty" Test---WTF?

I've no problems at all to discuss this with everybody.

I never make no bones about my opinion about the values about our Basic Law, carried it under my arm, as a saying was in the 70's.

The Federal state had to change already the immigration law, because it was "knitted with hot needles" as a German saying says.
This seems to have done similar.

Nevertheless, it might follow a quite popular opinion amongst conservatives.

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It appears( what would be a good thing) that problems like the alleged discrimination against Muslims may be solved in the courts. That is the correct way to meet such problems head on. The rule of law should be predominant. I wonder if the rest of the world realilzes that the incredibly harsh criticism of our President, President Bush, regarding his alleged subversion of statutes regarding wiretapping, is unnecessary since this issue will also inevitably go to the courts to be litigated.

In the meanwhile, I wonder what the man in the streets in Germany feels about the proposed rules regarding Muslim Education. It is clear that in the USA, the large majority( 64%) do not feel that President Bush has committed any crime in his efforts to defend the American people from another possible 9/11 crisis through use of wiretaps.

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Out here.

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DontTreadOnMe wrote:

fairness tells me that we should maybe take a discriminating look at everyone who wishes to enter

Canada takes a look at everyone who enters. The tests and interviews aren't "difficult", but they are required of everyone. That sort of approach makes sense to me.

On the flip side, there are residents of many countries who wouldn't pass the 'entrance exams' given to immigrants.

It sometimes seems like the difference between adopting a baby and giving birth. If you can do it naturally, you can be any kind of idiot. If you want the right/privilege, but you're not able to do it naturally, you have to prove you're not any kind of idiot.

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Of course, it makes sense. The doctrine that says you must welcome anyone into your home even if they are carrying loads of manure on their shoes is stupid. No one, with any sense, would allow a long term guest who was a known child molester to stay in a home that had young children in it. Very few would welcome anyone who was a confirmed drug addict to live in their homes.

The large majority of Muslims who are not allied with the Taliban like fringe element loonies? Fine!

But they must identify themselves.

The old adage- When in Rome, do as the Romans do, is more applicable today than ever before.

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Walter Hinteler wrote:

Not really. But we must have the first Muslim, who is singled out according to that bye-law and then he can go to the Federal Constitutional Court.

Or, some other states (what is happening just now) and/or the Federal Government use their influence.

Besides that, Baden-Würtemberg is not only the roots of German liberalism but people there are still proud of it. So, might well be that the state government rethinks its doing things for the sake of doing things.

Oh, that is interesting.

Here, in areas where the Federal Government is the legislator (our constitution limits federal powers) its laws outweight any that states might bring in...this, immigration rules are ALWAYS federal.

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georgeob1 wrote:

Ok by me Walter. As a German citizen this issue is yours to deal with as you wish. I just don't believe the problem here rises to the level at which it should be the subject of criticism by the people of other countries which have no direct involvement in the matter, and which have their own equivalent (or worse) problems

Funny. That never seems to work for me, hence the point of the thread.

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It is better to let hypocrites do their thing alone than to reply in kind.

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dlowan- I am very much afraid that you are not conversant with the US Constitution.

Article IX- the ninth amendment to the US constitution reads:

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."

Article X -the tenth amendment to the US constitution reads:"

"THE POWERS NOT DELEGATED TO THE UNITED STATES BY THE CONSTITUTION, NOR PROHIBITED BY IT TO THE STATES, ARE RESERVED TO THE UNITED STATES RESPECTIVELY, OR TO THE PEOPLE"

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I am not American.

(stifling giggle.....)

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I know you are not American. I believe you do not know our Constitution. That is why your comment with regard to immigration rules does not apply to the USA. I am sure you can find some books in Australia,( A fine country that has magnificent people and a great government) that outlines the US constitution.

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I was not speaking about immigration rules in the USA.

Why on earth would you think I was?

And, if you really did not think I was speaking of America, what on earth was your would be patronising comment meant to be doing?

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Oddly enough, the world does not revolve solely for the USA.

Give it up, Deadpuss, you just did a pratfall on a banana skin you placed there yourself.

The most dignified response is to doff your hat, and join the laughter at your expense.

I know it hurts...but it will be good for you in the long run.

Add to your moral fibre.

Speaking of fibre...do you include enough in your diet?

I sense you're backing up in there....

Tried carrots?

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Walter Hinteler wrote:

Quote:
But Dieter Biller, of the foreign ministry in Stuttgart, the state capital, said the test would help bureaucrats to form opinions as to whether citizenship applicants were suitable or not.

Dieter Biller is the head of the city of Stuutgart's office for foreigners, a local civil servant.

Because Baden-Württemberg feared a flood of lawsuits, only ten questions out of the 30 are being posed - they are identical to those, which belong to the questionaire in most other states.

Besides that, every local office for the foreigners in the state of Baden-Württemberg (situated either at county or city level) can decide indepently, if they want use and how much out of the question catalogue.

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Walter Hinteler wrote:

Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
Discrimination isn't, intrinsically, a bad process. It helps to be able to discriminate between edible mushrooms and the poisonous kind.

It is, however, definitaly against our basic law - and a part within it, which won't be changed (otherwise we had to get a completely new constitution).

Therefor, the Baden-Würtemberg interior ministry insists that it is no discriminition at all.

While of (partial) German descent, I am no expert on German law, and yet I find it hard to believe that so enlightened a nation as Germany prohibits any and all discrimination.

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Walter Hinteler wrote:

Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
Discrimination isn't, intrinsically, a bad process. It helps to be able to discriminate between edible mushrooms and the poisonous kind.

It is, however, definitaly against our basic law - and a part within it, which won't be changed (otherwise we had to get a completely new constitution).

Therefor, the Baden-Würtemberg interior ministry insists that it is no discriminition at all.

And this:

The Baden-Wurtemberg interior ministry is either disingenuous or compelled to obfuscate in order to advance rationality (see prior post), for they are clearly discriminating.

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Walter Hinteler wrote:

Lash wrote:

CJ-- Germany isn't the only country to have "problems with Muslims".

Depends, how you define 'problems with Muslims'.
We aren't at war with them (until today, at least), like others.

What nations are at war with Muslims?

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dlowan wrote:

I think Walter is saying that accusations that GERMANY (ie the whole country) is discriminating against Muslims are inaccurate...but that accusations that Baden-Württemberg is discriminating against them ARE accurate.

It seems that the federal government is condemning the state's actions, Walter...can they affect the new rules made by Baden-Württemberg?

I'm sure that Walter appreciates your translation services.

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I'm sure, everyone who read this thread and the quoted sources should have seen that by her- and hisself.

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dlowan wrote:

Oddly enough, the world does not revolve solely for the USA.

This from an Aussie who feels compelled to spend so much time in a forum that is overwhelmingly focused on the USA.

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Germans To Put Muslims Through "Loyalty" Test---WTF?

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