I don't Understand...

Like they say - Guilt: the gift that keeps on giving".

But you do NOT have to accept this gift. Refuse it. Turn it down. Stand up for yourself.

No one here said it would be easy.

Gonna respond in blue 'cause, uh, 'cause I like the color.



You don't deserve to beat yourself up about this. It happened, it's done. I'm sorry that it bothered you at the time and/or now, but it can't be rewound. And a moment of what you feel was weakness does not condemn you to this life. You don't need to hang around just because you weren't a virgin when you wed. So what? I'm not trying to diminish your feelings -- please don't misunderstand that -- what I'm saying is, it was one thing, it's done. Put it on the scale with a lousy marriage and five minutes of premarital coupling or five months or five years, even, does not balance out the scales. You're paying too high a price for this. The error isn't worth a lousy marrige. It's worth a lot less than that. That debt's been paid, let it go.

A quick story: my closest friend in High School waited to lose her virginity until she got married. And she married quite a piece of work (I was in the wedding and it was the only wedding I've ever been in where I seriously considered making an objection during the ceremony). D___ was a major league control freak. He was not hitting her, but he was very controlling of her life, telling her how long to shower (because a few extra pennies for the water bill were just way too much), which car to drive, how often to see her family, whether she could see her friends, etc. She divorced him in less than a year. Oh, and as for her virginity -- he gave her an STD. She's cured now (it was a nonfatal STD), and in another relationship. That marriage happened over 15 years ago. It's ancient history and I'm sure she's forgotten much about him. She got to let it go, and so can you. One day, this will all be behind you, and you'll have a good life, where you're independent -- perhaps with a love, perhaps not -- and won't be worrying about these kinds of things. That life can be yours. Really. Fifteen years ago, that life seemed far, far away for my friend, but it's here and it happened. It can happen for you, too, if you let it.

hephzibah,

I have ben following this thread and not saying much because I feel the advice you are getting is far wiser than anything I could say.

I do want to address one thing though. I am not sure if you would call yourself a Christian and I try not to make assumptions, but I do believe you believe in God. If you believe in God then you obviously believe in His forgiveness? If God Himself can forgive you why can't you forgive yourself? We all make mistakes. We will always make mistakes no matter how hard we try not to.

But, as long as we hang onto those mistakes and the guilt associated with it, we learn nothing from it. I highly doubt that your marriage has problems because you slept with your husband before you got married. I understand your feelings because I was brought up that way also.

But honey, let it go. Give it to God. He has forgiven you. He has forgotten that sin. If, in all His glory and perfection, He can forgive and forget, can't you also?

I am praying for the best for you.

Truthfully, as honest as a lot of these things are that people are sharing with me, it doesn't make it any easier to swallow. It hurts. I love my husband. I do. I don't like what's happening, but I wish it could change. I don't want to give up hope because I've seen much worse situations come to reconciliation in my own life. I'm stubborn like that sometimes. As hurt as I am, and as much as I know that what people are saying is truthful and honest, I don't know if I'm ready to hang in my towel just yet. Part of me wants to believe what my friend told us about doing things backwards. Part of me wants to believe that as much as he hurts me, it's not intentional, and it could change if he could just understand... I'm just not sure if he wants to understand. But maybe he does and I'm just too blinded by my own hurt to see it?

I'm not sure exactly how clouded my vision is on this because there's two sides to every story. Ya know? You've only heard mine. I wonder what he would say? And how would that effect the outcome of all this? The first person to tell the story almost always sounds "right". But does that mean they really are? (I told ya I was analytical! ) See, this is good for me in some ways because as much of a struggle as it is becoming, it's causing me to look outside myself. We can't see solutions to problems until we take our eyes off of ourself, what we want, and how we feel. At least that's how it works in my life. These are the things I need to figure out.

Mama Angel, thank you for the words of encouragement. I am a christian. And I know that God forgives me. I know it in my head. Knowing it in your heart is something completely different though. I've experienced that forgiveness first hand. My testimony is a looong one. Over the last few years though some things have become jumbled to me. Things I thought I knew were wrong. People I thought loved me, didn't, and so on. Everything I've ever believed has been challenged on some level and I chose to withdraw into my little shell, which separated me from Him. Not that this is a good excuse by any means, but I've felt justified in beating myself up about this because my virginity was something God gave back to me. (Again, a long story I'm not opposed to sharing with you some time) I threw that precious gift away. It hurts me to know that I was so careless about it.

It hurts me to know that I hurt the only One in my life that has ever really stood with me, and never failed me. So I carry around my burden of guilt knowing God has forgiven me, however knowing that has only caused the guilt to grow because I know I shouldn't feel guilty anymore. So I feel guilty for feeling guilty. (laughing at myself now...) I know I can't get it back, and I need to lay it down and move on. I've been on a downward spiral emotionally. I am grieving the loss of something that had more meaning to me than anyone other than God and myself will ever understand. I need to break out of the cycle of grieving. God will show me how. He is just in the fact that I'm able to recognize what's happening now. That's the first step to being free. I know it doesn't seem like it guys, looking at this from the outside, but please believe me when I say I'm making progress. Things are changing on the inside and it just can't be seen yet. I am so thankful that all of you have been so willing to try to help me through this. It means more to me than any of you will ever know.

You wonder what he would say? Probably that you should trust him and that you're unnecessarily uptight about money matters. The blame will lie on you; he's the reasonable one, you're just too fussy, you should grow up, and so on and so on.

What is it, really, that you love about him?

It sounds to me as if your desperation has driven you to this situation, and your vision is indeed clouded.

hephzibah,

Remember the Prodigal Son? How much greater was the joy of the father whose son that was lost was again found?

I would love to hear your testimony!

Tomkitten: OOOOOUUUUUCH! Yeah, sadly that's usually his response. Almost verbatim. What do I love about him? What DO I love about him? Hmmm... That my friend is a good question... I'll have to get back to you on that one!

Momma Angel: I would love to share my testimony with you. Is that something that can be shared here on the appropriate forum board? Or is that something that would be better left in private?

hephzibah,

That is entirely up to you, of course. Since you are new on A2K and haven't encountered some of the posters that do not view Christianity very highly, you may want to keep it private.

You can leave me a message at my website or you can email me. Either way is fine with me.

Just be aware that not everyone's beliefs or views are accepted graciously on A2K.

You're probably safe to share your feelings about how your belief in God has played a part in your life in your thread here on the Relationships forum-- but if you venture into the shark-infested waters of the Spirituality Forum, expect to be challenged on it...

Anyway, it sounds like from what you're saying about not wanting to give up yet but also feeling like you need another perspective on this, you could probably get a lot out of counseling.

Have you considered this? Either by yourself or with your husband-- but I think alone would likely be very helpful at this point, so you can figure out exactly how you feel on your own. Get another viewpoint, someone who isn't directly involved, and someone who can help you decide if these are the kind of problems you can work out, how you can communicate with your husband more effectively, etc.

I don't want to be rude, but are you maybe a little bit confusing love with lust? It's an easy enough mistake to make/

Hephzibah--



Sure, he could change...but he hasn't shown any signs yet, has he?

He likes spending your money. Being fair, he likes spending his money, too. I bet it just breaks his heart that he's behind in child support....but he's not using either your money or his money to catch up.

Tom Kitten has this guy pegged. While you're worrying about your contribution to marital problems, he's very happy to be able to tell you that these trouble are All Your Fault. Why can't you trust him and be a Good Little Meal Ticket?

I wish you loved yourself as much as you loved your husband. If you did the solution would be much clearer to you.

Whew... Is it just me or is it getting hot in here? (Wipes the sweat from her brow...) Tomkitten, you're a strait shooter... I like that. Thank you. I have to call it a night because I'm exhausted. I'll be back in the morning though. I had an interesting conversation with my husband this evening. I'll have time to tell ya'll about it tomorrow. So...


Tune in tomorrow for the continuing saga of Hephzibah and her husband!!!!!

Eiy carumba! Thanks ya'll.

First let me clarify something that I must have misconstrewed at some point. He's not behind on his child support. I'm sorry if I gave the impression that he was. This is the bulk of our financial problems:

With his base pay at work and my pay combined we make just enough to cover the bills. I have been trying to get him to see this for about a month and a half. He sat down at one point and "ran some figures" and came out with us being $500 over what we needed on a monthly basis. I think he missed the minus in front of that because when I ran the same figures mine had a minus because of extra bills we should be paying bigger payments on. So all this time he's been thinking we're doing fine and I'm just worrying about nothing. He's been paying his bills and having nothing left over because that's all his base pay covers. At the big blow out the other night, when I wrote the first post on this thread, I showed him in black and white that we are NOT ok. When he realized it he immediately started to blame me. Because I wanted to move out of his parents house. I couldn't wait to get the IRA money so I could get away from there... and so on. Which is true. We lived an hour from both our jobs and were both driving an hour each way to work (100 miles a day) and spending $80-$100 a week each on gas. Now how practical is that? "shrugs".

I ran the figures before we moved. I miscalculated on a few things. I've never had to fill an oil tank before and had no idea it was going to cost $500 for 3/4 of a tank. But if we want heat... we gotta fill it, eh? Which is why I ran everything by him before we moved. I figured he would know more about this stuff than I, and he said it was all fine. I went on what he said, knowing that if I was wrong we could still make it work, things just might be a little tight for awhile until he starts selling some cars. That's fine. So, anyway, back to the story... I flipped when he started blaming me for everything, we screamed, we fought, we went to bed, and didn't talk again until last night. Yeah, it's been a tense couple of days here. So last night he told me he didn't understand why I am still so upset about this whole thing. We actually talked calmly about all this for the first time since we got married. I told him it was because he insisted on blaming me for everything and was unwilling to take responsibility for his part in all this. He told me that he knew he was harsh with some of the things he said, but he was "just trying to make an example". I told him that was not ok. That there is this running thing that happens in his family (which I've seen on several occasions) to rub peoples noses in their mistakes over and over, and to automatically look for someone else to blame when something goes wrong.

He said that's not what he was "trying" to do and I told him that regardless of if he meant to do it or not I wasn't going to tolerate him doing it anymore. I told him that he either needs to start taking responsibility for his part in this or just sit by and watch our marriage get flushed down the toilet. He said the "only" solution he saw to the problem was to put himself on my bank account. And I told him that was a load of crap. There are several other solutions, but because he want's to be on my account that's the only one he's willing to consider as an option at this point. He got quiet. So, I went on to explain to him that I had realized recently through all this stuff that's been going on that, even though he's been saying everything is ok and we are fine financially. We aren't because he's barely making enough to cover his own bills. I apologized for not realizing this sooner. I pointed out that what has been happening is that he has been paying his bills with the money from his paycheck and treating the money I gave him to pay the discover card as part of his income. Not using it for it's intended purpose. I told him that I had agreed to pay a specific amount to pay that bill off, since most of the charges were mine, which I had followed through on. However, he hadn't, so the discover card is now his baby to figure out how to pay off, because not one more cent of my money is going towards it. (Don't worry. The card is in his name. If he doesn't pay it's on him not me.)

There was a lot more said which I had all typed up then when I tried to preview it I lost everything I had just spent an hour writing! Grrrrr So, I'll just sum it all up for you. The decision was that I am going to be in charge of the finances from this point on. We are going to start a separate checking account at his credit union with both our names on it for bills. He is going to give me his paycheck every week which I will distribute as needed to bills combined with my check, and each of us will get an allowance. I realize this does not negate the fact that he was irresponsible with the money I gave him for the discover card. Unfortunately there's not a whole lot I can do about that except not give him anymore large sums of money to pay bills. Which I won't. So I guess we'll just have to wait and see if he follows through with this. I'm hoping this was all just a gross miscommunication on both our parts. But we won't know until next week. So what's the verdict? Do ya'll think this is reasonable?

hephzibah,

Right before I read the paragraph about you were going to start a new account I was just thinking that might be an idea! You go girl.

I swear you are married to my husband! Nothing is ever his fault and he blames everyone and anything and forget?, HA!, he's like an elephant. He never forgets and won't let you either.

But, I understand that about him and it is pretty much rolling off my back right now.

I think the new account is a good idea. I'm sure these others that have been helping you in here will continue to give you good advice.

Thanks Momma Angel I think a lot of it has to do with his upbringing. His whole family is like that. Not one of them could ever be wrong about anything. And it's all fair game you see. You make a mistake... well, because we're family we're allowed to bring that up at any time that it is convienient to us and rub your nose in it. Their family gatherings consist of nothing more than talking about all the mistakes the "black sheep" in the family have made, and telling them that they need to come to church so God can help them. What they don't realize is that instead of encouraging them, and helping them to do the right thing (which they honestly think they are doing) they are kicking them when they are down and pushing them farther away from the very thing they need. It's difficult to let it roll off your back, and I commend you for being able to do so! I'm getting there. I think if my husband and I can learn to communicate better with each other, this marriage just might be salvagable. (sp?)

I agree girl. My husband's family has just had their first Christmas together in 31 years! It was actually pretty awesome.

They do have the ability (?) to keep all this stuff out of a social situation. But, behind closed doors? Everyone's mistakes are open game.

I don't let it roll off my back all the time. I'm just getting more practice at it. I just had to finally get to the point of "hey, I did it. I apologized for it and I haven't done it again so get over it!"

When I stick to that, he usually just backs off.

Communication is probably (IMO) the most important thing in any relationship.

Yeah, I got this clever little saying from my father in law... "Build a bridge and get over it." LOL I tell my husband that sometimes when things get stirred up and he's not letting something go I already apologized for. It gets his goat every time because he hears it from his parents too sometimes. He does back off when I say it though!

I agree that communication is the most important thing. I thought we both knew that. I talked about communication continuously before we got married to make sure we were on the same page. I'm not perfect in this area either, but I sure try. He just misses it sometimes because he so set on getting his oppinion or point across that he hears nothing else except, "She's not agreeing with me." then he thinks, "How can I get her to agree with me?" Then it becomes a battle of the wills if I let it. Most of the time, honestly speaking, I turn and walk away until we can be reasonable about it. I've worked with troubled kids for about six years now and I've learned that sometimes the most effective way to get a point across to someone is to not give them the space to be inconsiderate, or treat you disrespectfully when they are talking to you. Tell them, "You are not being respectful to me right now, and I don't appreciate it. I would like to talk to you about this, but it is going to have to wait until you can be reasonable when you are talking to me." and you turn and walk away. And you keep doing that until they figure out that you aren't going to allow them to treat you that way. It's very effective with the kids I work with.

Oh they have their fits. They scream, they shout, they follow me around and try to get me to listen, and I just go on about my business as if nothing were happening. Then they stomp off to their room, slam the door, screaming, "You don't care about me! You won't even listen to me!" And I wait. It takes awhile but they calm down, and we end up being able to talk in a much more adult manner. If they start getting disrespectful again and I stand up. That's all it takes and their like, "No, no no! I'm sorry." They calm down and we continue talking., until we resolve the issue. Some of the stuff I've learned in my job has been very helpful in dealing with situations outside of work. It's been good.

I knew it! You ARE married to the same guy I am!

More than anything, he can't stand it when I refuse to talk. He has a very bad habit (tactic, I call it) of just going a bit too far by saying something he knows is going to hurt me. I'm not hurt by the words he uses, but by the fact that he WANTED to hurt me.

So, sometimes we don't talk for a day or two. All of a sudden, he seems to have seen the light (or me at times too - seeing the light) and then we can talk.

Before we were married, we would talk for hours on end about everything. But, when you get married, the whole world rushes in. Not because you want it to, but because it's just real life. Try explaining that to my husband!

Hephzibah--

You sound as though you and your husband have made a great deal of progress.

I'll keep my fingers crossed.

Thanks Noddy I appreciate it!