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I don't Understand...

 
 
Treya
 
Reply Sat 31 Dec, 2005 09:30 am
Sad This is my first time marriage. I waited for 35 years for the "right one". I'll admit we got married fast. As a matter a fact he was barely divorced when we met for the first time. I didn't know this. My "impression" was that he had been divorced for quite awhile. I only found out the truth later when... well anyway, let's not get into that. I found out and was unsure what to do because he hadn't officially lied to me about being divorced... I don't think... so I let it go. Should've been a red flag I think. Just giving a little history here. Hell or high water I'm going to make this marriage work. That's what I've decided. However, I'm confused how to handle a few issues, and looking for some advice.

Money has become a huge issue within our relationship. I had a large sum of money that I received from my last job when I left. Before we got married we discussed it, what it would be used for, where it would go, and how much would be saved. It was all fine and dandy. When we got married the story changed. Are you surprised? I was. Nieve little me. He doesn't have access to this money. It's in MY account and there it will remain. However, recently he keeps "suggesting" that to make the financial management easier I should put him on my account. (NOT)

Part of our agreement before we got married was that I would use some of that money to pay off the discover card, which was mostly my stuff anyway, and I would help him pay off his laptop because the interest on it was unbelievable. I held up my end of the agreement. I gave him $3000 to pay those bills off. He paid off HIS laptop and spent the rest on God only knows what. He says it was christmas stuff, but I was there at christmas and I can tell you he did not buy $1500 worth of presents. Maybe $500. Maybe... If I ask any questions about financial stuff and he automatically gets defensive and accuses me of not trusting him. He asked me for $500 more yesterday to pay on the discover card.

Yes, I'm a fool. I gave him $500 more only to find out after he deposited the check that no, he was not going to use that for the discover card, he was going to use that to pay back the "ready cash" he borrowed a few weeks ago from the bank and told me a few days prior he had already paid. When I confronted him about this he said I was delusional because he never said that. LIAR. A few days ago we had talked about all this and I had asked him how much of the money he had paid on the discover card after he shopped for christmas. His exact words were, "Oh babe, I'm sorry. I didn't use the money for that. I paid the $500 ready cash I owed because I HAD to pay that back like right now."

Ok, so I think you get the point on what's happening here. No, I'm not giving him anymore money. No I am not putting him on my account, seeing how that would give him anytime access to what's left of that money. I have two questions though. First, I know I can't get the money back. I choose to give him what I have and I won't hang it over his head, or continue in bitterness about things I can't change. But please, can someone help me to see where to go from here? I can't talk about finances to him at all, however, I'm the only one paying any bills here. I just don't know what to do. Second question. This is his second marriage. My understanding of the law is that anything that his name is on his ex has access to (on a certain level) because they have children together and he pays and unreal amount of child support.

He has been trying to tell me that's not true. That his "Mom" told him she found out that's not true. Because initially she had said he shouldn't be put on my account because that would make my money his money, so if anything came up with child support his ex or the courts or whatever could access that money. I've already decided that regardless of what he says he's not being put on my account. However, I would like to know where I can find the laws concerning this kind of thing. I've been trying to find stuff online all morning, to no avail. Can anyone direct me somewhere that I can see the laws concerning this in black and white? And maybe even print them off for him? Thank you for taking the time to read this. I know it's long. I just don't know what to do here. Any advice would be appreciated.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 2,529 • Replies: 41
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Dec, 2005 09:38 am
hephzibah,

I am so sorry you are going through this. Money is such an object of discontent in many marriages.

I think it all comes down to the question of trust though. Right now, it's sounds like you don't trust him at all. Can't say that I blame you. For the trust issues, I'd suggest some kind of counseling.

As far as the legal part goes, I have no clue. I can only suggest that you call an attorney and ask them about it. Lawyers don't charge just to answer a quick question on the phone.

I sincerely hope that this problem resolves well for you. I will keep you in my prayers.
0 Replies
 
Treya
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Dec, 2005 10:08 am
I don't Understand
Momma Angel wrote:
hephzibah,

I am so sorry you are going through this. Money is such an object of discontent in many marriages.

I think it all comes down to the question of trust though. Right now, it's sounds like you don't trust him at all. Can't say that I blame you. For the trust issues, I'd suggest some kind of counseling.

As far as the legal part goes, I have no clue. I can only suggest that you call an attorney and ask them about it. Lawyers don't charge just to answer a quick question on the phone.

I sincerely hope that this problem resolves well for you. I will keep you in my prayers.


Thank you so much for your quick reply. I know money is a huge object of discontent in a lot of marriages. I didn't want it to be one in mine. I don't want it to be one in mine. You are right, I don't trust him. I have had the "once over" by too many people in my life to just blindly trust someone like that. I think it's foolish to put our trust in man. (not men, mankind, I guess) People fail. I fail. God doesn't. But I feel so alone right now. Confused. Disoriented. He's not who he said he was. He admits this. I am who I said I am. He admits this too. He also admits he thought I would change when we got married. Do you know how much this hurts me? I showed him who I am, said he loved me for who I am, thinking in the back of his mind the whole time... "Oh yeah, she'll change when we get married."

Now it's his disappointment I carry every day. Disappointment that he can't change me because I am who I said I am and that's not what he really wanted. I hate to say this but I regret getting married. I regret trusting what he said before we got married. I know that somehow God will work all this out, but in the process I don't want to be running around making a bunch of bad decisions based out of my own hurt and disappointment. That would be wrong and probably cause more damage to the relationship. Thank you for your prayers. They are much needed at this point.
0 Replies
 
jespah
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Dec, 2005 10:30 am
If you're married to a guy who you don't trust and are readily referring to as a liar, why are you staying married to him?

Even if divorce is out of the picture, due to religious reasons (and you don't say so in your post), a separation is not. You don't have to live with someone if you don't want to. You have options.

Contact your local Bar Association and ask about a family lawyer or a mediator. They don't necessarily work on divorce cases but it would behoove you to just explore your options.

Best to you in the new year.
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Dec, 2005 10:35 am
My understanding is that it is a mistake to mingle funds that were yours prior to the marriage, funds such as a retirement fund from work; I think it is a big mistake to put his name on the account. I know, you said you wouldn't, I'm just backing you up. At least I believe it is a mistake in terms of ever being able to claim them as yours in case of separation or divorce.
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Treya
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Dec, 2005 11:08 am
Quote:
Even if divorce is out of the picture, due to religious reasons (and you don't say so in your post), a separation is not. You don't have to live with someone if you don't want to. You have options.


Divorce is out of the picture because of religious reasons. No I didn't meantion them in the first place because I am new to this forum, I am hurting, and I don't know if I could take any attacks on my faith right now. More often than not, in the forums I've been involved in previously, the true issue gets lost and it becomes a debate about religous beliefs. I can't defend my beliefs right now. I'm too weak, confused, and disoriented. I can only say I believe them and hope that it can be left at that.

As far as separation... Two things: It's not what I want. Though my angry words may make it sound so, and for that I'll apologize. I want to work this out. I don't know how. Yes, I've called him a liar, because that's exactally what he's doing right now. Why am I married to him? I did not know he would lie and twist things when we got married. He's a "christian" too. "Christians" aren't suppose to do those kind of things. (Yes, I am nieve. That is painfully noticable at this point) I would not have married him had I known any of this before hand. However I did, and that's a wrap. I can't change it so I'll forge on.

If I did choose to become separated from him though my options are somewhat limited (I think, please tell me if I'm wrong though). I hung myself on this one. I lived in FL. I married this guy and moved to CT. I have no support system here. I have no family or friends. What I do have is: a job, a lease we both signed, and a whole bunch of bills, all in my name. I've made some bad decisions. I want to make it right, somehow, some way. There's got to be a light at the end of this tunnel. That's why I'm writing all this. I'm somewhat blinded right now by the things that are happening and I can't see any options because I'm confused. I thought maybe some outside voices could help me to see some options.
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jespah
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Dec, 2005 12:12 pm
Well, family may not be there but you can call them. Surely your parents or siblings (if any) care about you. You need not be completely isolated. Amtrak goes to both Connecticut and Florida, so do most airlines. You don't need to be totally on your own with this.

Even if divorce and/or separation are out of the picture, this does not mean you have to live this way. If you cannot trust this man with funds then you've got to keep them separate and make sure that you don't commingle them. But he's going to keep asking for bucks, for this, that and the other thing.

Does he work? If you mentioned this, I'm sorry if I missed it. If he works, he should be able to pay his own bills. Talk to a credit counselor; if the man can't stay within his means, he needs to go on a budget, a diet that doesn't include video games, extra ties or whatever outside of necessities that he spends his money on. I'm sorry you're in this position but you're right, you're in a fix and he seems less than ideally responsible. And having your name on everything is not good -- the credit rating is yours to lose.

Might I suggest also having him put his name on some of these bills? And then make sure he pays them? In most couples, one person handles the finances or most of them (in my marriage, it just so happens to be me, although my husband can certainly write a check or go online to pay through our bank).

So if you can, try up putting him on bills that can just affect him if they're unpaid (say, if you had his name on the car loan for his car, or his cel phone bill. Certainly any payments on his laptop should be his baby). Otherwise, you could end up with the electricity or oil service shut off, or evicted.

Anyway, in the future, he gets to pay (for example) for his laptop. And if he doesn't, if it's repossessed, that's his headache and not yours. And that goes even if the interest is insane and it's a lousy investment. Sometimes financial lessons are not learned in an easy manner, but this guy has shown that he is not trustworthy around funds. Protect yourself financially if you are going to stay in this marriage. A shot credit rating will not help you out if he predeceases you.
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Treya
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Dec, 2005 12:51 pm
Yes, he works. He sells cars. A potential to make good money, however, no cars sold, no money. He cannot even pay his child support with his base pay yet he refuses to ask for it to be lowered. He's making a BIG check next week and already has it spent. He's the one who said, "When I make big checks we need to set most of it aside incase I have a few slow weeks." So when he told me how his next check was going to be spent I asked him about this. He said, "No but..." with a bunch of excuses. Does he pay his bills? Yes. Does he help with "our" bills? No. Our bills are really "my bills" because my name is on them not his. My bad... Will he put his name on them? No. Then he would have to be responsible.

"Our bills" will get paid. I will work two jobs if I have to. Is this fair? No, but lifes not fair either, and I'm paying the price for my decisions. You know the saying... You made your bed, now you are going to lie in it... His laptop? Paid for with my money. Why? Because I agreed to do that and I did it. No changing that decision now, ya know? I don't understand how I can make sure he pays the bills when he is totally unwilling to be accountable for one cent of his money. When I've given him $3500 to pay bills, and $1500 of that has mysteriously disappeared, and $500 is not going to what he told me it was when I wrote him the check. Granted it's not too late to put a stop payment on that check, but my question is this... How many more problems would THAT cause? Is it worth the argument? I don't know.

Quote:
Anyway, in the future, he gets to pay (for example) for his laptop. And if he doesn't, if it's repossessed, that's his headache and not yours. And that goes even if the interest is insane and it's a lousy investment. Sometimes financial lessons are not learned in an easy manner


I agree 100% I will not put one more cent towards anything that is his. Not because I am bitter, but because I can't and I won't pay the price for his bad choices. I have enough bad choices I'm paying for already... thank you very much... (said to myself) I know that family is not totally out of contact. I want to call them. I do. I am so ashamed though. My family's typical response to mistakes is either, "I told you so." or "Too bad for you." Sad I know, but true. It's a fact of life for me though, and something I've grown quite accustomed to. Blood is not thicker than water. In my life blood means nothing, they are merely people I have to associate with because I am related to them. Just and example: No one in my family came to my wedding. Why? Because it was inconvenient. Gas prices had gone up. Air fares had gone up. It didn't fit into their schedule.

My mom, stepdad, and Aunt and Uncle were there only because I decided to have the wedding where they live, so it was convenient you see. Had I had the wedding where I was going to originally... Nope, they couldn't have come. Am I saying, "Oh poor me"? Naaa, it's not worth the time or effort to have a pity party. It's just a fact of life. You build a bridge and get over it. So I have. Thank you for your advice jespah. It was very helpful and encouraging. I appreciate that.

Oh yes, also... let me clarify one thing. My perspective on this is simple. A little hard headed and stubborn maybe, but this is it:

I have married a man who wants no responsibility financially as well as other area's I have yet to meantion. I have two choices, leave, or pick up the slack. Those are the only two choices I see at this point. I'm not saying there aren't more options, it's just a matter of perspective. I'm not in the best position right now act on my perspective? Maybe? I don't know. Ha! What a mess this is! Razz
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Tomkitten
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Dec, 2005 01:36 pm
I don't understand
Even if divorce is frowned on for religious reasons, some religions accept divorce as a civil solution, but don't permit remarriage.
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Eva
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Dec, 2005 01:56 pm
I got divorced 25 or so years ago when it wasn't accepted by my church. I lived through it, and I haven't regretted the decision for a single second. The mistake was in marrying him, not divorcing him. Pretty soon, the people I knew at church realized my ex wasn't what he seemed to be, and they accepted it.

What you describe is a clear case of "fraud." He misrepresented himself. Just because you made a mistake in marrying him doesn't mean that God requires you to continue making mistakes by carrying on with this sham.

Get out. This is not what marriage is supposed to be.

BTW, I remarried a few years later and am now happily married to an honest, responsible man who would never think of acting the way you describe. We'll celebrate our 23rd anniversary this year, God willing. I might also add that I've been able to accomplish far more for God in a good relationship than I was able to do in a bad one.

So...my advice is...do whatever you need to do to convince yourself that you've tried everything to make this a good marriage. But don't lock yourself into a hopeless situation.
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Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Dec, 2005 02:22 pm
If your church does not sanction divorce, how about an annullment? I'll bet that you have a good case for fraud. Check it out with your clergyman.
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Treya
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Dec, 2005 06:07 pm
Fraud??? Really??? WOW...
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Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Dec, 2005 06:13 pm
Quote:
As a matter a fact he was barely divorced when we met for the first time. I didn't know this. My "impression" was that he had been divorced for quite awhile. I only found out the truth later when... well anyway, let's not get into that. I found out and was unsure what to do because he hadn't officially lied to me about being divorced... I don't think... so I let it go. Should've been a red flag I think.


hephzibah- I will bet that he lied to you about a lot of things..............and that's fraud.

Hmmmm........So he is divorced and remarried. Does your church approve of that? Did they know that when the two of you were married? If so, and he married in your church under false pretenses..........................Are you even considered MARRIED by your church?

Seems to me that you have lots of ways to go if you are looking for an "escape clause".
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Tomkitten
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Dec, 2005 06:47 pm
Seems to me you need an "escape clause", and quickly. All the giving is on your side, and there's no trust. Not a promising start to any relationship, let alone a marriage.
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Treya
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Dec, 2005 07:20 pm
I don't really have a church. I was never able to find one in FL and we've only been up here a few months. I would like to find a church. I've been looking for a church. I'll get one soon hopefully. If I get out of this marriage I'm done. I will live the rest of my life alone because to be quite frank... I'm starting to think relationships are just one big truck load of BS. All I wanted was someone who represented themselves for who they really were. That is my greatest source of discouragement right now. If I do love him and he really loves me like he says he does, couldn't it just be worked out? A friend of mine told me that my husband and I did things backwards. Most people date for awhile work out most of the issues then get married. We skipped the whole dating thing, so now we're working out the issues most people would have already resolved. I don't know what I believe anymore, except I don't want to have one more thing to add to my list of failures.
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flushd
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Dec, 2005 09:30 pm
"If I do love him and he really loves me like he says he does, couldn't it just be worked out?"

Maybe. Maybe not.

Right now, is he acting with love? You know you have to deal with things as they are, not as you'd like them to be. You seem like a very capable woman, and you can get through this.

I'll leave the advice giving to folks with more experience in this than myself. Good luck though and Happy New year.
Smile
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Eva
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Dec, 2005 11:18 pm
hephzibah wrote:
If I get out of this marriage I'm done. I will live the rest of my life alone because to be quite frank... I'm starting to think relationships are just one big truck load of BS. All I wanted was someone who represented themselves for who they really were. That is my greatest source of discouragement right now.


Oh, there are good men out there. Believe me. I found one. I'm sorry you didn't.

Quote:
If I do love him and he really loves me like he says he does, couldn't it just be worked out?


Not always. Contrary to the Beatles, Love is NOT all you need. Trust and respect are even more important.

Quote:
A friend of mine told me that my husband and I did things backwards. Most people date for awhile work out most of the issues then get married. We skipped the whole dating thing, so now we're working out the issues most people would have already resolved. I don't know what I believe anymore, except I don't want to have one more thing to add to my list of failures.


That's why I said it's important for you to stay and do everything you can to satisfy your own conscience. Get counseling...joint or alone. At the very least, it will give you a safe place to sort out your thoughts. You may realize what needs to be done to salvage the relationship. Or you may realize you need to cut your losses and move on.

Whatever you do, don't lock yourself into a hopeless situation by telling yourself you "have to." Being a martyr never did anybody any good.
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cyphercat
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Jan, 2006 12:35 am
Okay, look at what you're setting up here:

Not going to consider divorce, that means we can bet on a long time, a large part of your life, with this man.

You'll "pick up the slack." He's not responsible, so whatever he just refuses to handle, well, that becomes your responsibility.

So this adds up to many years of you taking on whatever you find he just won't do. I'm betting that whatever you're willing to do, he'll let you do. I think this will end up being not only you handle the bills, but also you handle the cooking. You handle the kids. You handle the cleaning. You take care of him when he's sick, you take care of you when you're sick. Bascially, you do whatever he won't.

And you sound like you're thinking, "yes, but that is just what I have to do now because I made a mistake. I made my own bed..." Okay, that's commendable to take responsibility like that, and as someone else commented, you sound very capable.

But this is a recipe for misery. Sure, you can handle it. You are capable and you can take on all the responsibility he won't. But almost everything you've said sounds like the main reasons to stay in the marriage are because 1. It's your duty, and 2. You're strong enough to pay for your mistakes. Does that sound like a good basis for your marriage? And this could go on for the next twenty, thirty, forty years. At some point, won't you break? At some point, won't you hate that you've been paying for your mistake for most of your life? And if someday it will be too much and you'll decide to get out, why not consider it now before you've wasted a huge part of your life?
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Jan, 2006 12:37 am
I told you there would be some wonderful people coming in here with great advice!

I responded to your message you left me.

Happy New Year (it may look a little bleak right now, but there are people that care!)

Where in Florida? I have some friends there. Maybe near you?
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Treya
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Jan, 2006 08:29 am
Happy New Year everyone! Smile Cyphercat, good advice. Thank you very much! I'm taking all into consideration. One of my "finer" qualities (being sarcastic) is needing to pick everything apart by analyzing it, then make a decision. Don't worry. It won't take me forever. I guess it's really easy for me to fall into the "martyr" mode because in most situations that's been my part. I got it from my mom. She's the queen of Martyrs you see... Razz

Quote:
Sure, you can handle it. You are capable and you can take on all the responsibility he won't. But almost everything you've said sounds like the main reasons to stay in the marriage are because 1. It's your duty, and 2. You're strong enough to pay for your mistakes. Does that sound like a good basis for your marriage?


This is a very good point. Very good indeed. No it doesn't sound like a good basis for marriage. However, you are talking to one who has lived her life "paying for her mistakes" as well as the mistakes of others at times. So to me, to do this, is nothing new. Is that how God want's me to live? No. I don't think so. But I've never known another way to live, so part of the solution to this whole problem is probably for me to learn to live differently. I can stand up for myself in some situations and things work out pretty good. However, there are people out there who are very keen on people like me, they see the kinks in the armor and that's the area they attack to get their way.

It's easy to sit back and say, "It's all their fault. I'm just the victim here." (Lord knows I've don't that a lot in my life!) More often than not though, speaking honestly, I think rather than being the victim of other people's actions, I am the victim of my own thoughts, idea's, and perceptions of what is ok and what is not. Of what I deserve and what I don't. I allow certain things to happen sometimes because somewhere back in the very depths of my inner being I still feel I don't deserve good things. Why though? It is a mystery. I struggle constantly to not punish myself when I don't meet up to my own standards, or the standards I feel God has put out for me. As I've thought of this more and more I'm realizing that I've tolerated a lot of crap from my husband for this reason:

Are you ready for this? This is a dusey!

We had sex before we got married. To some that's not a big deal. To me, with what I believe it is a big deal. I waited for 12 years to have sex because I was going to wait until I got married. Then I failed. I failed myself, God, and my husband because I couldn't exercise a little self control for just a little longer. So a lot of this crap, fight it as I may, I've felt I deserved because I didn't do things right in the first place. In my outer conscience I know this isn't true. But deep in my heart I'm really disappointed with myself, and sometimes feel that God is really disappointed with me too. Then when we got married, my husband didn't want me anymore. Which just compacted what I was already feeling. Sorry, hope that's not too much info! Gotta run for now.
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