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The Abramoff scandal investigation

 
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Jan, 2006 09:55 am
mysteryman wrote:


It probably will look worse,but "look" does not mean "is".
I prefer to wait till the facts come out,instead of throwing out a blanket accusation.

For someone that brings up Clinton so much you seem to have a problem with the meaning of the word "is."

I can't begin to count the number of times you have blanketed Clinton with accusations.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Jan, 2006 09:58 am
parados wrote:
mysteryman wrote:


It probably will look worse,but "look" does not mean "is".
I prefer to wait till the facts come out,instead of throwing out a blanket accusation.

For someone that brings up Clinton so much you seem to have a problem with the meaning of the word "is."

I can't begin to count the number of times you have blanketed Clinton with accusations.


What have I accused him of?
Be specific,dont give generalities.
Also,please show me the specific accusation...what post?
When did I say it?
What was the context?

Dont make a charge you cant back up!!
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Jan, 2006 10:07 am
Yargh! No more Clinton!

Cycloptichorn
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parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Jan, 2006 12:17 pm
MM,

You can start here....

Clinton warned in 1996 about OBL


and now back to the FEC facts..

www.fec.gov

Abramoff never gave money to any Democratic candidate.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Jan, 2006 03:49 pm
parados wrote:
MM,

You can start here....

Clinton warned in 1996 about OBL


and now back to the FEC facts..

www.fec.gov

Abramoff never gave money to any Democratic candidate.


Did you actually READ the document I linked to?
It stated exactly what I said.
It was a statement of fact,not an accusation.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Jan, 2006 03:57 pm
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Jan, 2006 03:57 pm
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Jan, 2006 04:05 pm
Dang those facts. Like the fact that Abramoff didn't contribute to a single Democrat.

Abramoff contributed over $80,000 to Republicans in the last 5 years and $0 to Democrats. Abramoff is accused of giving money to congressmen in exchange for personal favors. quid pro quo.

Just the facts ma'am.

But don't let those facts keep you from claiming Dems got money from Abramoff.. We wouldn't want to stick to the facts alone.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Jan, 2006 07:59 pm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/02/AR2005060202158.html

"Most lobbying firms here are bipartisan, to give their clients access to key lawmakers of both major parties. Abramoff's group was no exception. "
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Jan, 2006 08:01 pm
okie, It doesn't matter; all those that broke the law must go to prison. No exception.
0 Replies
 
slkshock7
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Jan, 2006 09:31 pm
Capitaleye wrote:
In more Abramoff-related news, two Senators have announced that they will return more than $217,000 in contributions linked to the infamous lobbyist, The New York Times reported. The Senators, Conrad Burns, (R-Mont.) and Byron Dorgan (D-N.D.) made clear that they are attempting to distance themselves from Abramoff and have called on other members to return the contributions. Political strategists, working on behalf of possible challengers for the 2006 mid-term Congressional elections have made it publicly known that they will publicize Abramoff contributions in races where they are attempted to oust the incumbent. "This is an important step that all public officials should take in order to renew the faith" of voters, Burns told the Times. Of the top 25 Congressional recipients of political money linked to Abramoff, 19 are Republican and six are Democrats. Burns is returning $150,000 in contributions linked to Abramoff, including money he received from American Indian clients. Since 1999, he has received $49,590 from Abramoff's tribal clients. Dorgan, the ranking Democrat on the Senate Indian Affairs Committee, is returning $67,000. In October, Sen. Jim Talent (R-Mo.) became one of the first lawmakers to return Abramoff contributions.


http://www.capitaleye.org/inside.asp?ID=195

Other news sources have reported other democrats offering their abramhoff-tainted money to charity. So can someone please explain to me why Dorgan and other Dems are suddenly returning and/or donating large chunks of money to charity?
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Jan, 2006 09:39 pm
I believe their motive is clear in the piece you quoted.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Jan, 2006 09:52 pm
They were caught red-handed (sorry for the pun), and they think the return of tainted money will clear their dirty names.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 05:36 am
slkshock7 wrote:
Capitaleye wrote:
In more Abramoff-related news, two Senators have announced that they will return more than $217,000 in contributions linked to the infamous lobbyist, The New York Times reported. The Senators, Conrad Burns, (R-Mont.) and Byron Dorgan (D-N.D.) made clear that they are attempting to distance themselves from Abramoff and have called on other members to return the contributions. Political strategists, working on behalf of possible challengers for the 2006 mid-term Congressional elections have made it publicly known that they will publicize Abramoff contributions in races where they are attempted to oust the incumbent. "This is an important step that all public officials should take in order to renew the faith" of voters, Burns told the Times. Of the top 25 Congressional recipients of political money linked to Abramoff, 19 are Republican and six are Democrats. Burns is returning $150,000 in contributions linked to Abramoff, including money he received from American Indian clients. Since 1999, he has received $49,590 from Abramoff's tribal clients. Dorgan, the ranking Democrat on the Senate Indian Affairs Committee, is returning $67,000. In October, Sen. Jim Talent (R-Mo.) became one of the first lawmakers to return Abramoff contributions.


http://www.capitaleye.org/inside.asp?ID=195

Other news sources have reported other democrats offering their abramhoff-tainted money to charity. So can someone please explain to me why Dorgan and other Dems are suddenly returning and/or donating large chunks of money to charity?


If that is a serious question, the serious answer is that they are seeking to escape the taint of Abramoff's money. True for dems and republicans both.

But I'm guessing you are suggesting that Abramoff is, as President Bush deceitfully claimed, an equal money dispenser and so no particular or unique taint ought rightfully to be placed on the republican party. But Abramoff was not an equal money dispenser. And more to the point, that isn't the key issue in any case, which is why DeLay was pushed out by his own party last week and it's why the Republicans have now moved into damage control mode.

Quote:
Dreier's dilemma
GOP LEADERS IN CONGRESS must have had quite a weekend devising a crash program to corral the scandal spreading from lobbyist Jack Abramoff. The announcement Sunday that House Speaker J. Dennis Hastert would give the job to Rep. David Dreier (R-San Dimas) had a slapdash feel, with Dreier hastily flying back to Washington from California. He takes charge of a legislative effort low on specifics but intended, in Dreier's words, to "deal with this issue and get it behind us as quickly as possible."

The influence-peddling scandal has been building for months despite efforts to dismiss it as a media-generated spite-fest. Last week, the dam broke. Abramoff struck a plea deal with prosecutors, sending legislators into a frenzy to return or give away contributions from him and his clients. And Abramoff buddy Tom DeLay of Texas said he would not, after all, seek to regain his post as House majority leader once he has dealt with that pesky Texas criminal indictment. DeLay could no longer plausibly dismiss criminal charges as partisan attacks by spiteful prosecutors or credibly deny the taint of Abramoff's luxury golf trips, skybox tickets and lavish contributions.

Dreier is really in a pickle. There is no fast way to get rid of the scandal, and no stomach in the House leadership for legislation that would close the profitable revolving door between legislative offices and the lobbying industry. DeLay's own "K Street Project" (named after the D.C. location favored by lobbyists) demanded that firms purge themselves of Democrats and focus on helping Republicans. Predictably, lobbyists rushed to hire GOP legislative aides and former officeholders. The project is one reason the lobbying scandal isn't very bipartisan.

If Dreier and Hastert were serious, they would take as a starting point a bill by Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) to open the lobbying industry's doings to public scrutiny and to choke off the flow of favors (which in other cultures would be known as bribes). The bill isn't perfect, but it has teeth and has already been introduced in the Senate. Why start over, except in the name of doing less damage to the lobbying trough?

link

Those of us who have been watching and writing about the K Street project for a couple of years now are pleased as punch (at least, I sure am) that this story has finally blown up in the face of many of those guilty and become a public matter. Any dems that get rounded up for crimes of corruption - great! But there won't be many, if any.

The system (that intersection between very big money, lobbyists, and congress) was and is ripe for corruption. This present republican crowd is guilty of falling to the occasion.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 08:24 am
blatham,
You said...
Quote:
Any dems that get rounded up for crimes of corruption - great! But there won't be many, if any.


Are you suggesting that the dems are not now corrupt,are you suggesting that they never have been,or are you saying they havent been caught yet?
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 08:29 am
The Abramoff scandal is a Republcan Scandal just as Watergate was a Republican scandal. To try to spin it otherwise is dishonest.

To try to use the "everybody does it" excuse is laughable.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
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parados
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 08:30 am
In any corruption scandal, the party in power tends to be the most corrupt for the simple reason that they are in power.

What is the point of bribing people not in power? It doesn't get you much in return since they can't push your agenda.

As was stated recently. The GOP has achieved the level of corruption in 10 years that it took the Dems 40. The Dems lost power because of that corruption.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 08:42 am
I couldn't have said it better myself.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 09:06 am
Maybe it's time to get a better deal from congress by sending it off shore.

Embarrassed Embarrassed Embarrassed Embarrassed
Just kidding but than again who wants something that does not work?
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 09:22 am
mysteryman wrote:
blatham,
You said...
Quote:
Any dems that get rounded up for crimes of corruption - great! But there won't be many, if any.


Are you suggesting that the dems are not now corrupt,are you suggesting that they never have been,or are you saying they havent been caught yet?


Please focus. The subject of this conversation, and of the relevant investigations in progress, relate to the corruption and crimes surrounding Jack Abramoff.

We've posted a LOT of information previously, and if you haven't yet come to comprehend what is going on here, then you either aren't reading or you are just irredeemably dumb. I'll give you one more chance. Get straight on the information in the CSM piece...

Quote:
But before you do your usual "they're all crooks" wave of your hand - don't. This case is different. It is particularly ugly, and it's just beginning.
Christian Science Monitor

Then read this, slowly and carefully...
The DeLay Abramoff money trail

If you demonstrate that you've bothered to get yourself educated here, and to do so with some care, I'll have future conversations with you. Otherwise I simply won't. And there's little reason anyone else should either.
0 Replies
 
 

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