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The Abramoff scandal investigation

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Jul, 2006 08:44 pm
mm wrote:
Actually,once he leaves office he Cannot be prosecuted for anything he did in his official capacity as President.


Why then do you "conservatives" keep persecuting Clinton?
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Jul, 2006 08:58 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
mm wrote:
Actually,once he leaves office he Cannot be prosecuted for anything he did in his official capacity as President.


Why then do you "conservatives" keep persecuting Clinton?


Since you apparently havent learned simple english,you apparently dont realize that prosecute and persecute are 2 different words,with very different meanings.

When you figure out what you were trying to ask,I will answer you.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Jul, 2006 09:22 pm
parados wrote:
okie wrote:


Parados, for Bush to be prosecuted for lying, he needs to have lied about something before a grand jury. Such a scenario is far fetched if not ridiculous Parados for you to even suggest the possibility.


Lying to federal investigators is a crime and can be found here.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/ts_search.pl?title=18&sec=1001

Google "indicment" and "lying to fbi" to get a rather lengthy list of people charged for just this crime. Are you suggesting that the charging of so many terrorist suspects for lying to the fbi is ridiculous and far fetched?


I am not aware that the FBI has been grilling President Bush about anything, much less catching him in any lies about anything. Any supposed crime by Bush is simply based on the hopes of Bush haters, as no evidence indicates anything close to it as far as I know. And if Mysteryman is correct, it doesn't matter anyway once he leaves office.

Parados, are you okay? Your somewhat unhinged posts of late have me a bit concerned.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Jul, 2006 10:12 pm
Bush was interviewed by Federal prosecutors on June 24, 2004. Federal prosecutors are covered under the law I cited. Lying to them is a crime under that law. Perhaps you need to catch up to reality here okie.
http://news.nationaljournal.com/articles/0703nj1.htm

I don't know if Bush lied or not. I only stated that if he did he could be subject to prosecution after leaving office. (I doubt he would be prosecuted.) He couldn't be prosecuted while in office nor can he be prosecuted for revealing classified information as President since he has the power to declassify anything he wants.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Jul, 2006 10:18 pm
I understand English just fine, thank you. It's you who didn't catch my drift.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Jul, 2006 10:26 pm
Well, sounds like Bush did what he needed to do, and made no attempt to lie about it. He believed Wilson was not telling the truth and the administration needed to counter Wilson's crusade of accusing the administration of lying. Parados, if I was president, I would do the same thing. Any responsible president would. The people deserved better than Joe Wilson running around writing op eds, writing books, and accusing the president of lying, based on what?....having tea with officials in Niger for a day or two? Give me a break Parados. Who elected Joe Wilson anyway? Wilson was making claims that he had no conclusive evidence to claim.

We've debated this over and over. It boils down to do you wish to trust Wilson and Plame more than Bush, Cheney, and staff? I don't. I wouldn't trust Wilson and Plame of Vanity Fair fame any further than I could throw them, and that isn't far. By the way, has Fitzgerald questioned Plame and Wilson in detail? If not, how come?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Jul, 2006 10:47 pm
Why don't you ask Fitzgerald? LOL
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Sep, 2006 11:04 am
Another shoe drops. (quietly for now)

Ney pleads guilty
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Sep, 2006 07:06 am
So, we have some 80 plus visits by Abramoff to Karl Rove's office. Note that this includes only instances where he was signed in as destined for Rove's office, leaving open any other instances where he may have met someone else initially (over 400 such contacts)...

Not what the WH and Tony Snow told us intially, but what the heck, everyone makes mistakes. We've no reason to think that these people lie for political reasons.

Quote:
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-abramoff29sep29,0,7081662.story?coll=la-home-nation
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Sep, 2006 07:59 am
Sitting President Indictment & Criminal Prosecution?
A Sitting President's Amenability to Indictment and Criminal Prosecution*

The indictment or criminal prosecution of a sitting President would unconstitutionally undermine the capacity of the executive branch to perform its constitutionally assigned functions.

October 16, 2000

MEMORANDUM FOR THE ATTORNEY GENERAL

In 1973, the Department concluded that the indictment or criminal prosecution of a sitting President would impermissibly undermine the capacity of the executive branch to perform its constitutionally assigned functions. We have been asked to summarize and review the analysis provided in support of that conclusion, and to consider whether any subsequent developments in the law lead us today to reconsider and modify or disavow that determination.1 We believe that the conclusion reached by the Department in 1973 still represents the best interpretation of the Constitution.

Entire article:

http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/sitting_president.htm
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Sep, 2006 10:05 am
Quote:

Report: Abramoff team had 485 contacts with White House

Story Highlights
•Report says Jack Abramoff billed for 485 White House contacts
•Convicted lobbyist billed for 10 contacts with Bush adviser Karl Rove
•Report says Abramoff had mixed results
•White House say Abramoff is an "admitted and proven liar"

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Jack Abramoff had hundreds of contacts with White House officials, but they brought mixed results for the convicted lobbyist's clients, according to a congressional report.

The draft report of the House Government Reform Committee said the documents -- largely Abramoff's billing records and e-mails -- listed 485 lobbying contacts with White House officials over three years, including 10 with top Bush aide Karl Rove.

Abramoff and associates were successful in getting appropriations for some of their Indian clients, but efforts to influence presidential appointments and nominations "were often not successful," according to the report, obtained Thursday. (Read complete final report -- PDF)

The report indicated that Abramoff and associates lobbied on behalf of 19 individuals for administration jobs and only was successful once.

Another time the lobbyist, who received lucrative payments from Indian tribal clients, was infuriated that some White House officials said they could work with Indian tribes directly without the need for lobbyists.

"This is horrible," Abramoff wrote his colleagues, using an expletive to describe the way he and his associates were being treated.

There were several instances where the documents -- supplied by Abramoff's former lobbying firm -- indicated Rove ate at an Abramoff restaurant, Signatures. There was one occasion where Abramoff got Rove NCAA basketball tournament tickets, but Rove may have paid for them.

"I just saw Karl ... and mentioned the NCAA, opportunity, which he was really jazzed about it," Abramoff wrote Rove aide Susan Ralston.

"Karl has to pay for his tickets," Ralston e-mailed the lobbyist.

Abramoff responded the cost would be $50 for each ticket, "payable to me personally."

Learning that Rove would appear at his restaurant, Abramoff wrote, "I want him to be given a very nice bottle of wine and have Joseph whisper in his ear (only he should hear) that Abramoff wanted him to have this wine on the house."

The report said that of the 485 contacts listed, 345 were described as meetings or other in-person contacts; 71 were described as phone conversations and 69 were e-mail exchanges.

The White House responded by sharply criticizing Abramoff.

"It is shocking and deeply disturbing that this admitted and proven liar ripped off his clients by over-billing and over-selling his supposed influence with any number of policymakers," Dana Perino, deputy White House press secretary, said Thursday.

Referring to the wine, Perino said the idea that Abramoff ingratiated himself to Rove by sending him a bottle of wine was laughable. Anyone "who knows Rove knows that he doesn't drink alcohol," she said.

The records cover the period from January 2001 through March 2004, and included the work of 20 lobbyists. Abramoff in January pleaded guilty to four counts of conspiracy, one count of mail fraud and one count of tax evasion. In his plea agreement, he admitted he defrauded his clients, and some of the contacts in the records could not be verified by the committee, the report said.

According to e-mails, Abramoff and his team offered White House officials tickets to 19 sporting events and concerts.

The report said the most frequent recipient of tickets from Abramoff was Ralston, who worked for the lobbyist before she went to work for Rove.
Enter Ralph Reed, Grover Norquist

But the report also said Abramoff used conservative activist Ralph Reed to communicate with the Bush administration.

From time to time, the report added, Abramoff had the opportunity to introduce a client to important officials such as Rove, by providing an invitation to a dinner arranged by another conservative activist, Grover Norquist.

The Associated Press reported last week that Republican activists Norquist and Reed landed more than 100 meetings inside the Bush White House.

The White House released the Secret Service visit records to settle a lawsuit by the Democratic Party and an ethics watchdog group seeking visitors logs for the two GOP strategists. (Full story)

The congressional report also said Abramoff's team claimed to have lobbied the office of political affairs in 17 instances, including six with Ken Mehlman -- who formerly headed the office and now heads the Republican National Committee.

ABC News first reported the committee's findings Thursday evening.

Copyright 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.



Find this article at:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/09/29/abramoff.wh.ap/index.html


Like we all didn't see this one coming.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Oct, 2006 02:55 pm
An aide to top White House political adviser Karl Rove resigned in the fallout over a congressional report showing many White House contacts with ex-lobbyist Jack Abramoff, a spokeswoman said on Friday.
Rove aide resigns over Abramoff report
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Oct, 2006 09:42 pm
Washington is a very strange place indeed. An aide to Karl Rove resigns after some free tickets to sporting events from a lobbyist were found out. Meanwhile, Democratic congressman Jefferson still proudly retains his seat in Congress after being caught with $100,000 cash, probably bribes, in his freezer. And we hear virtually nothing about him, but we continue to hear plenty from Democrats accusing Republicans of being the party of corruption. Amazing.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/05/21/politics/main1638404.shtml

Proving one thing. If you are a Democrat, absolutely do not show remorse when you are caught redhanded and the press will not care, and your own party won't mind, and if the Republicans demand something be done, they will promptly be accused of hypocrisy and can't we move past the politics of destruction.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Oct, 2006 11:52 pm
Jefferson has not been charged with any crimes.
(But the FBI is investigating him for allegedly taking bribes to help promote business deals in Nigeria .... and it was $90,000.)
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Oct, 2006 10:19 pm
To my knowledge, Foley has not been charged with any crimes. Besides, common sense says Jefferson is a crook, but maybe you think hes innocent if its only $90,000? The point is, where's the press hounding him every day? You don't see it Walter. Maybe you can begin to understand why some of us here in America are frustrated with a slanted and extremely biased press.

Another example the Abramoff scandal. They hound Republicans, some could be guilty, but what about hounding Harry Reid and making him resign for very questionable deals in Nevada? Its frustrating, Walter.

Obvious conclusion, if you are a Democrat, never, never admit guilt, do not resign no matter what you've been caught doing, and soon it will blow over and the matter is forgotten.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Oct, 2006 05:30 am
okie wrote:
Obvious conclusion, if you are a Democrat, never, never admit guilt, do not resign no matter what you've been caught doing, and soon it will blow over and the matter is forgotten.


This comment in today's Chicago Tribune could explain that better than I can:

Quote:
[...]
In the days since the Mark Foley sex scandal broke, as we've been waiting to learn what House Speaker Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.) knew and whether he responded appropriately, I've heard a lot of people saying that scandal is tougher on Republicans.

I'm not sure that's the case, but if so it's pretty clear why. Republicans have been winning big elections by setting themselves aloft, placing themselves on such high moral perches that when they lose their footing, the thud reverberates much louder than when their counterparts get in trouble.
[...]
Most Americans understand that conservatives are human beings and susceptible to making stupid mistakes. (Democrats aren't immune. Think of Rep. William Jefferson, accused of having $90,000 in bribe money chillin' in the freezer of his Louisiana home.)

It's just that the more moralistic among the conservatives have shown so little empathy for the fallibility of others that it feels like they're getting what they deserve and more when they thud.

It's always a fascinating exercise to watch them explain how they got tripped up. Last week, Hastert attempted to link the Foley scandal to a conspiracy by the Democrats and the news media. What?

Foley's attorney gave us a list of puzzling reasons that we were supposed to piece together to understand why the 52-year-old ex-Congressman sent explicit e-mail messages to teenage male pages. First we learned that Foley checked himself into a drug rehab resort, ostensibly for an addiction no one knew he had. Then we learned he was gay and later that he had been molested as a child.
[...]
0 Replies
 
kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Oct, 2006 05:50 am
okie wrote:
To my knowledge, Foley has not been charged with any crimes. Besides, common sense says Jefferson is a crook, but maybe you think hes innocent if its only $90,000? The point is, where's the press hounding him every day? You don't see it Walter. Maybe you can begin to understand why some of us here in America are frustrated with a slanted and extremely biased press.


Oh, listen to this sobbing and wailing. This is the same party which turned an investigation of a land deal into a year long investigation of an affair between a President and a consulting adult in her mid twenties. EIGHT YEARS LATER, you are still telling us how upset you are over the affair.

Now you have one of your own hitting on underage high school kids while your party's leadership very possibly looked the other way, and you cry about the press' attention to the subject?

ROFLMAO!!!
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Oct, 2006 02:45 pm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/12/AR2006101200889.html

Quote:
Senate Report: Five Nonprofit Groups Sold Clout to Abramoff

By James V. Grimaldi and Susan Schmidt
Washington Post Staff Writers
Thursday, October 12, 2006; 4:32 PM

Five conservative nonprofit organizations, including one run by prominent Republican Grover Norquist, "perpetrated a fraud" on taxpayers by selling their clout to lobbyist Jack Abramoff, Senate investigators said in a report issued today.

The report includes previously unreleased e-mails between the now-disgraced lobbyist and officers of the nonprofit groups, showing that Abramoff routed money from his clients to the groups. In exchange the groups, among other things, produced ostensibly independent newspaper op-ed columns or press releases that favored the clients' positions.


Officers of the groups "were generally available to carry out Mr. Abramoff's requests for help with his clients in exchange for cash payments," said the report, issued by the Democratic members of the Senate Finance Committee after a one-year investigation.

Abramoff has pleaded guilty to fraud and conspiracy and is cooperating with federal investigators in the ongoing influence-peddling probe that has resulted in seven guilty pleas and convictions.

The report states that the groups probably violated their tax-exempt status "by laundering payments and then disbursing funds at Mr. Abramoff's direction; taking payments in exchange or writing newspaper columns or press releases that put Mr. Abramoff's clients in a favorable light; introducing Mr. Abramoff's clients to government officials in exchange for payment; and agreeing to act as a front organization for congressional trips paid for by Mr. Abramoff's clients."

The groups are Norquist's Americans for Tax Reform; the Council of Republicans for Environmental Advocacy, which was co-founded by Norquist and Gale Norton before she became Secretary of the Interior; Citizens Against Government Waste; the National Center for Public Policy Research, which was a spinoff of the Heritage Foundation; and Toward Tradition, a religious group founded by Abramoff friend Rabbi Daniel Lapin.

Lapin, whose group was at the center of some of the most infamous lobbying schemes with Abramoff, told the committee that he was shutting down the Seattle-based nonprofit because of negative news coverage related to Abramoff.

E-mails released by the committee show that Abramoff routinely used the groups, often several of them for a single project, for his lobbying activities. Often with the knowledge of the groups' leaders, Abramoff exploited the tax-exempt status and leveraged the stature of the organizations to build support among conservatives for legislation or government action sought by his corporate clients, including Microsoft Corp., mutual fund company DH2 Inc., Primemedia Inc's Channel One Network, and Brown-Forman, maker of Jack Daniels whiskey.

Norquist's attorney told the Senate panel that as long as Americans for Tax Reform spends funds in keeping with its general purpose, "There is no 'abuse' of ATR's tax status."

Sen. Max Baucus (D-Mont.), the ranking Democrat on the committee, said the IRS and FBI should investigate the group. "These groups' dealings with Jack Abramoff certainly violated the spirit, and perhaps the letter, of the laws that give charitable and social welfare organizations a break for the good work they're supposed to do," Baucus said in a statement.

Though the report was issued by Democrats on the Finance Committee, Chairman Charles Grassley (R-Iowa) endorsed its findings of wrongdoing by the nonprofit groups. An aide to Grassley said the senator did not co-author the report because he had hoped it would have included Democratic groups that he believes also breached their tax status.

The report contains new material about Norquist, as well as e-mails referred to the committee by Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), who led a Senate investigation into Abramoff's lobbying activities.

The Abramoff scandal has bruised the image of Norquist, a friend of Abramoff's since their days in the College Republicans. Often consulted by White House senior political advisor Karl Rove, Norquist convenes a Wednesday morning meeting that for decades has been a touchstone strategy session for officials of conservative organizations, activists, lobbyists and Republican lawmakers.

Abramoff traded on Norquist's cachet, at one point referring to Norquist in an e-mail as a "hard-won asset" of his lobbying empire. In exchange for Norquist's opposition to taxes on Brown-Forman products, he required a $50,000 donation to Americans for Tax Reform, according to an Abramoff e-mail.

"What is most important, however, is that this matter is kept discreet," Abramoff wrote to a colleague at the Preston, Gates & Ellis law firm. "We do not want the opponents to think that we are trying to buy the taxpayer movement."

The Senate report criticized "a troubling practice" by Americans for Tax Reform and other nonprofits of accepting tax-exempt donations from Abramoff's clients to advocate for their issues -- in op-eds, position statements and letters to members of Congress. ATR's advocacy "appears indistinguishable from lobbying undertaken by for-profit, taxable firms."

The e-mails show Abramoff and Norquist explicitly discussed client donations to Norquist's group in exchange for Norquist's support on issues.

Among those who agreed to donate money to Americans for Tax Reform to get Norquist to write an opinion piece was a mutual fund company, DH2, Inc., which wanted Norquist to endorse its position on legislation affecting the mutual fund industry.

In December 2003, Abramoff lobbying team associate Michael E. Williams wrote his boss about getting someone at Norquist's group to shop an op-ed the lobbyists had written up on DH2's issue. "Will you talk to Grover? If Grover signs, we can demand the $$$ from Rubin!" wrote Williams, referring to Robert S. Rubin, managing director of DH2.

Two days later Abramoff e-mailed Norquist about the op-ed, asking if he could "put you on as signatory for submission to the Washington Times." Norquist agreed.

When Williams finalized the draft in early January he informed his boss, saying: "I told Rubin he needs to round up some $$$ for ATR."

Abramoff responded; "Get the money from Rubin in hand, and then we'll call Grover."

How much, asked Williams.

"50K," wrote Abramoff.

On Feb. 10, 2004, Abramoff wrote Norquist: "I have sent over a $50K contribution from DH2 (the mutual fund client). Any sense as to where we are on the op-ed placement?"

Norquist wrote back: "The Wash Times told me they were running the piece . . . I will nudge again."

Another tax-exempt advocacy group that was originally founded by Norquist and Norton, who resigned as interior secretary earlier this year, also appeared to have been used "as an extension of Mr. Abramoff's lobbying organization," the report said.

While many e-mails between Abramoff and the group's president, Italia Federici, have already appeared in the press or in the Senate Indian Affairs Committee's report on Abramoff's activities, the finance committee report offered a few new wrinkles.

Abramoff directed Indian tribes he represented to donate a total of about $500,000 to the group, the Council for Republican Environmental Advocacy. The lobbyist told them the donation was the way to cultivate Norton, whose department oversees Indian tribes and tribal casinos. The new e-mails show that Abramoff told the tribes that they would to be CREA's "trustees," and that Norton would "host" a series of CREA dinners. Interior Department documents obtained by the Post suggest that Norton was an invited guest at a CREA dinner, not a host.

The new e-mails also show a few more favors Abramoff asked Federici to perform for him by influencing friends at Interior, including former Deputy Secretary J. Steven Griles. In June 2003, Abramoff asked for Griles' help on five issues affecting his tribal clients, including "moving the Inspector General . . . out of Choctaw."

Griles and Federici have denied any wrongdoing.

Research editor Alice Crites contributed to this report.


Heating up. More and more Republicans are getting pulled into the Abramoff scandal with every week that goes on.

What, you didn't think it was going away, did you?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Oct, 2006 05:26 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
okie wrote:
Obvious conclusion, if you are a Democrat, never, never admit guilt, do not resign no matter what you've been caught doing, and soon it will blow over and the matter is forgotten.


This comment in today's Chicago Tribune could explain that better than I can:


I read the article and translated into: Republicans believe in morals so when one of them are caught, the party does not go to bat for them, and the person actually shows remorse and resigns. This in contrast to the alternative of admitting no wrongdoing, deny, deny, deny, until the matter blows over. Kind of like Saddam Hussein in his trial, he will never never admit he slaughtered all those people. He is innocent in his own eyes and I think he might actually believe it. Hitler probably thought he was going to achieve utopia, so he was a wonderful guy and there was absolutely nothing wrong with killing millions of innocent people, including women and children.

The article says in different words pretty much as I explained, Walter.
Question: Which scenario brings better results? I don't know about you but I prefer the belief in some standards.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Oct, 2006 08:35 pm
Remind me again....

When did Karl Rove resign his position at the WH?
0 Replies
 
 

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