Bella Dea,
Ok, maybe I can tell you why I find it offensive. I will try. First, let me ask you, do you recall any other shows with a family as the main set of characters and their religion being a focal point? I can't.
What are the sins that Christians speak most of? Homosexuality, adultery, fornication, abortion, etc.
Now, this show is (supposedly) going to be showing what is a Christian family, who by the definition of Christian should trying to live their lives being Christ like. Yet, they (supposedly) show this family commiting the sins that Christians consider some of the worst, right?
Yes, Christians sin. We all do, Bella Dea. A Christian is supposed to do their best to resist sin and not do it. But, to (again supposedly) have a minister spreading the Word of God (I guess he's supposed to be. He was wearing a minister's robes in one picture) and yet not dealt with these issues in his life is very hypocritical. How many times have you seen Christians just on these threads being accused of being hypocritical?
If some consider Christians on these threads hypocritical because we may lose our temper and lash out (just an example) how much more hypocritical does that show's (supposed) premise portray Chrisitans?
Hey, let's have them do a show on Muslims and about strapping backpacks full of explosives on their children and blowing up buildings in the name of God. Let's have them do a show on Satanism and portray the main theme of that - ego. Let's have them do a show about a particular race and....... You see what I mean, Bella Dea? If a show was done on Muslims with that premise it would be wrong. It does not fairly show Muslims. :wink:
I havent seen this show, and dont want to. But I must admit to getting tired of Christian bashing for the sake of it. Its illegal to bash Jews or Muslims in the same way, but the Christians are supposed to take it on the chin, and presumably turn the other one if they have one...ere where is this going...
So you keep bashing back MA I might not share your beliefs but its right if you are offended to say so. I think its cheap and unbecoming to attack Christians and Christianity whereas to offend Jews or Muslims in the same way would not be countenanced.
Happy new year ma.
There have been shows recently dealing with families and their Christian faith. 7th Heaven was pretty good, as was Joan of Arcadia.
Until I see the show, I'll not claim it is "bashing."
MA, Perhaps looking at the hypocrisy is the point, especially given the writers gayness and recent priestly doings. Perhaps it will get some people to thinking about how they, as Christians, should act and what they should or shouldn't condone rather than listening to (believing) only those that agree with them.
I'm amazed at the amount of energy this show is generating and it hasn't even aired yet.
Momma Angel, I am a little puzzled about your sense of urgency to fully know the premise of this show before it goes on the air. Why can't you just wait until it airs and then decide what you think of it? Why should a TV executive even bother answering your letter?
You also seem to be defining the rules of conduct for Christians by your own standards. By your standards all good Christians should be leading only exemplary lives unmarred by any human frailties and transgressions--and those who don't lead such lives should damn well not be portrayed in the media, even on shows that purport to be comedies.
That stance would seem to leave very little room to portray Christians as one would any other group, worts and all. The reality of life is that Christians do commit adultery, do have abortions, do have addictions, and sometimes love someone of the same sex. To acknowledge that basic reality is hardly to engage in Christian bashing.
You also cite homosexuality as a sin that (presumably all) Christians are concerned about. Likewise for abortion. Yet many devout Christians, are homosexual, and many devout Christians are pro-choice. As far as I can tell, there is no hard, absolute, unequivocal "Christian position" on either of these issues. Christianity encompasses considerable diversity of thought, particularly regarding social issues.
The show you are so concerned about centers around a character who is an Episcopal priest. You are aware that the Episcopal church has already ordained it's first gay bishop, aren't you?
Webpage Title
On what basis could you flatly insist that the issue of homosexuality could not enter the life of a fictional Episcopal priest or involve his family?
While Christians should not all be depicted as sinners, it is rather absurd to insist that Christians should always all be shown as saints.
I may or may not watch this program, but I will probably see the first episode, mainly because I like Aiden Quinn. Whether I continue watching will depend on whether the show is intelligent and funny.
Religion is most certainly an appropriate subject for humor and satire. It is done all the time. And lightening has not struck anyone down yet. Nor is God hurt by our jokes. She has quite a sense of humor. After all, she created us.
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:Its illegal to bash Jews or Muslims in the same way, but the Christians are supposed to take it on the chin, and presumably turn the other one if they have one
When did it become illegal to bash jews and Muslims?
****, I think I might have to go on the lam now. Dammit, I don't even know what the lam is, or how the hell I'm supposed to find the damn thing so's I can get on it...I'm goin' ta tha big house for sure, ma!!!
Stop talking sense, you basher.
Television: When You Ride With Jesus, Don't Tailgate
Author: FELICIA R. LEE
IT was a cold night in a quiet Staten Island neighborhood, but Christ Episcopal Church, a Gothic Revival marvel of gray limestone and stained glass, was full of people and light and singing. The lights were of the klieg variety, though, and many of the well-scrubbed people had been hired to fill the pews.
The occasion was a recent filming of "The Book of Daniel, " a new NBC drama scheduled to have its premiere on Jan. 6. The show stars Aidan Quinn as the Rev. Daniel Webster, a sometimes petulant, sometimes befuddled, Vicodin-addicted Episcopal minister, husband and father who wants to do right. Daniel not only prays to Jesus, but also talks to a flesh-and-blood, long-haired guy in a flowing robe, a kind of heavenly Dr. Phil no one else sees. Jesus pops up at Daniel's sprawling home (in a prosperous New York suburb) or sits beside him in his car, admonishing him not to tailgate or be so judgmental.
"Have I been chosen?" Daniel asks Jesus in the premiere episode. "No," Jesus replies. "So why do you talk to me, then?" the minister persists. "I talk to everybody," Jesus cheerfully answers.
When NBC announced "Daniel" last summer, there were the expected predictions of controversy in a country that takes its religion seriously. A priest with a monkey on his back who talks to Jesus? "Daniel May Face Lion's Den," said a Dallas Morning News headline.
"Some of the best shows on TV start with the perception of controversy, which is usually not an issue if it's backed by quality," said Kevin Reilly, the president of NBC Entertainment. "The intent with 'The Book of Daniel' is to make a high-quality show that is both highly entertaining and thought-provoking."
Television shows about ministers, angels and the like come and go (and WB's "Seventh Heaven" has lasted 10 seasons), but the right formula is tricky. ABC quickly canceled the critically acclaimed 1997 drama "Nothing Sacred," about an urbane, conflicted Roman Catholic priest, following low ratings and protests over its takes on topics like clerical corruption.
"Lately, a lot of people want to talk about religion," Jack Kenny, the creator and an executive producer of "Daniel" said, in a room away from the tangle of wires and frenetic people preparing the shoot. "I said, let's talk about it in a real way - a family that lives it. It started with Daniel, seeing the world through the eyes of a really faithful man who is flawed. I wanted to explore a family in that backdrop, in the way that 'Six Feet Under' explores a family in the funeral business or 'The Sopranos' explores a family in the Mafia."
A walking, talking Jesus, Mr. Kenny said, simply embodies Daniel's faith.
The Jesus character did not make an appearance the other night in New Brighton, a gracious residential area in Staten Island where the 1905 church stood in for the series' fictional St. Barnabas Church. But with every ornate chandelier lit amid the soaring, wood-beamed ceiling, Mr. Quinn walked to the pulpit, a fake choir bedecked in red and white behind him.
The crew expected to shoot late, wrapping up the seventh of eight episodes. At one point, everyone cleared the set for a flashback scene in which Daniel's 16-year-old daughter, Grace (Alison Pill), sang a melancholy and melodic "Time After Time."
Though Grace was singing in a church, the scene was written in such a way that the reason is unclear. The pilot episode, though, alludes to the death of one of the Webster family's twin sons several years earlier and sets up the swirl of issues in Daniel's world.
The series begins with the minister bailing Grace out of jail after her arrest for selling marijuana. Viewers later meet Adam (Ivan Shaw), an adopted Chinese son who is also 16 and who lovingly lobs racially tinged sarcasm at his family, and some good-natured, homophobic comments at his brother Peter (Christian Campbell), who is 23, gay and still dealing with his brother's death.
Daniel's wife, Judith (Susanna Thompson, from "Once and Again"), is a pretty, moneyed WASP who has nice chemistry with her husband and likes her martinis, too. Daniel also has to handle the simultaneous disappearances of his brother-in-law and his secretary, along with a lot of church money. A body turns up later in a motel room.
The cast includes the Oscar-winning actress Ellen Burstyn as Bishop Beatrice Cosgrove, who in the pilot chides Daniel for preaching that everyone gives in to temptation, and Dylan Baker ("Happiness" and "Kinsey") as Roger Paxton, a senior warden of the parish. Garret Dillahunt (who plays a killer on the HBO series "Deadwood") is Jesus.
Clearly, "Daniel" owes more to "Six Feet Under" than it does to "Seventh Heaven," the earnest, 1950's-tinged WB drama about a minister, his wife and their seven children.
"It's edgier than most network TV shows," Flody Suarez, a "Daniel" executive producer, said with smooth understatement. Mr. Quinn and the producers (John Tinker of "The Practice" is the third executive producer) said they only ask that people watch "Daniel" before judging it.
"For me, it was the idea of the consequences, the strain and the passion with which Aidan's character pursues doing the right thing," said Mr. Suarez, who before "Daniel" was executive producer of the ABC comedy "8 Simple Rules for Dating My Teenage Daughter" and who as vice president of development at NBC oversaw the production of shows like "ER" and "Just Shoot Me."
Speaking of his character, Mr. Quinn said: "I just see him as a very human, down-to-earth man full of foibles, with a good heart, dealing with modern life. I like his sense of humor, I like his flaws. It allows me not to be some saccharine, unreal priest. I like that he's trying to evolve. He's aware that he has miles to go."
The show's production schedule has been tough, Mr. Quinn said, with 14-hour days not uncommon. A veteran of more than 25 feature films, including "Michael Collins" and "Legends of the Fall," this is Mr. Quinn's first regular television series and his first time playing a priest.
Mr. Quinn, 46, grew up as a Roman Catholic in Chicago and in Ireland (his family moved back and forth). His recent television appearances were on NBC as a police officer in "Third Watch" and as Paul Newman's son in the HBO mini-series "Empire Falls."
Mr. Quinn, with huge light blue eyes and a kindly manner, said he visited a number of Episcopal churches to prepare for his role. He was impressed, he said, with how the sermons always touched on social issues. Mr. Quinn said he imagined Daniel as the kind of guy who has always had a strong connection to Jesus, "that goose-bump kind of thing."
Mr. Kenny took the unusual step of writing "The Book of Daniel" before getting an agreement with a network. He said he was fascinated by organized religion, he said, and the idea of exploring religion through the prism of a family rattled around in his head for two years.
In coming episodes, Daniel will continue to battle his Vicodin problem, and there will be a budding interracial romance between Grace and the housekeeper's grandson.
"They're just struggling to get through life," Mr. Kenny said of the Webster family, insisting that the pills, the drug selling, the missing money - and that's just in the first episode - make them human. After all, Mr. Kenny said, people with problems need a guiding light more than saints do.
"If you have everything together," he said, "what do you need God for?"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
© 2005 New York Times. All rights reserved.
firefly,
I am sorry I referred to you as Fresco in my post. Your avatar reminded me of his for some reason. I apologize for that.
What is written and what is portrayed may or may not be exactly the same. Like I said, I will watch this show and then decide on how I feel about it.
kickycan wrote:Steve (as 41oo) wrote:Its illegal to bash Jews or Muslims in the same way, but the Christians are supposed to take it on the chin, and presumably turn the other one if they have one
When did it become illegal to bash jews and Muslims?
It may not be in new york, but it is - on the verge of - being so here. Certainly Jewish people are defined by their religion and so offending Judaism is therefore racist and illegal. (So too are Sihks for that matter). The new offense of inciting religious hatred will extend similar sort of protection to Muslims, so that saying anything that a Muslim might object to, even if you did not mean to cause offense and even if what you say is factually correct, will be punishable by up to 7 years gaol.
I saw the promo for it again and I have to admit I laughed out loud when Jesus told him he was tailgating.
Thanks for clearing that up, Momma Angel. I was wondering who Fresco was.
What I find a little over the top is calling the central character Daniel Webster (as in the story, and the movie, "The Devil and Daniel Webster"). That's sort of a dead giveaway that the good-evil struggles in this one may lack any subtlety, and the approach may just be too cutesy.
Like Arrested Development, I Imagine that it wont last. People have no abiliyies to explore the possibilities of creative programming and are too quickly offended for no other reason than "they feel that they ought"
If the Jews were so damn touchy, Im afraid that humor on tv wouldnt have even gone full term. All humor is borne of personal pain turned inward (I dont know who said that but he was correct). The Book of Daniel seems to be a noble attempt to continue the foray into more experimental and creative programming. Getting all torqued off before seeing the show, well, that might be ok for some Muslim fundamentalist s or Christian Evangelicals(who routinely dont have any respect for facts anyway), but I hope that we dont represent that usually closed minded group of clones.
They're going to take away my Arrested Development? It's the first thing I've seen in ages on 'regular' television that I've liked.
So far, nothing I've read makes the show seem objectionable. Does anybody know if it is network or cable?
Well, the show is supposed to be airing in a couple of days and guess we can all make our decision about it then. I would imagine their first night's ratings might be pretty good. :wink:
