The US, UN & Iraq III

Percy,

I think Mr. Rumsfeld would have been Secretary of Defense under President McCain as well. I'll even go a bit further. If Al Gore had been elected, I think the odds are pretty good that we would have utilized the military option in Iraq. Mr. Gore, I think, tends to caution but his thinking is often sound. The path taken might have been somewhat different, but the end would have been the same. The politics and outside forces driving this President would not have been different, and I think the response would have been similar ... except the left wing would have accused Pres. Gore of betrayal.

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Kara wrote:

dafdaf, re your comment about how the military feel about the wars they must fight: this issue has been discussed in our media to an extent.
.....

They joined for an education or to learn a skill or to learn discipline and leadership. In the back of their minds, they knew that warfare was possible; and they had been trained to do that. But, for most of them, this war was not on their horizon when they joined up. With the possible exception of some gung-ho warrior types, this army, I am convinced, was a civilian army that knew it might have to fight.

That image really disturbs me.

When I was young(er) I thought of war as goodies versus baddies. I saw WW2 as exactly that. Then I remember being told how propaganda had been used on the population, and some people fight without actually wanting to do it, or were told lies in order to fight.

People talk of civilians and soldiers being somehow different. A civilian death is a tragedy, whereas the death of a soldier is an inevitability. In a situation where each soldier passionately believes in the situation to the point of wanting to fight to uphold their view, there is some sense in that division. But when you have some number of people fighting for a cause they do not understand or approve of, aren't they effectively then civilians once again?

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timberlandko wrote:

Very apt, Dyslexia ... Iraq indeed is in the International Arena. However, as gamepiece, not as contestant. Iraq is The Football, not a football player.

or the field.

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dyslexia wrote:

perception wrote:
Dys wrote:
But surely Dys you don't recognize that group of crooks who installed another crook in the white house. You can't have it both ways but you keep trying.

Percption: just another stab in the dark for you? before opening mouth and inserting your foot once again please review EVERY post i have made and find ONE post where i said anything about the supreme court installing Bush. never happened, but you go ahead and make it up as you go, it lends even less to your credibility.

aye, sounds much more like something i'd have said Smile

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Blatham wrote:

Chompsky, for those still as yet not completely under bamboozleitude... http://zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=36&ItemID=3450

My God Blatham----now it all falls into place Re: your views on politics. It is obvious your hero is Noam Chomsky. For our viewers this formidable intellectual is an avowed anarchist. In his background is the unquestionable influence of Bakunin (one of the founding fathers of Anarchism) and the Dutch Marxist Anton Pannekoek.

Your beliefs contradict everything that I hold near and dear----small wonder we don't agree on anything.

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Asherman wrote:

Mr. Gore, I think, tends to caution but his thinking is often sound. The path taken might have been somewhat different, but the end would have been the same.

You could be correct about Rumsfeld but I was not aware that Rumsfeld was even on McCains radar.

I must respectfully disagree with your prediction about Gore taking the same approach.

He may have had the guts to dispatch a large force to the Iraqi border to force re-entry of the UN inspectors but at the first sign of the shift in world opinion that faced Bush he would have folded his hand.

His only real convictions lay with clean air and saving the whales--nobel endeavors indeed but hardly a threat to thugs like Saddam and others.

I believe a search of Gores speeches will enforce my analysis of him.

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<looking in quickly due to interest in cetaceans <G>>

Perception: could be wrong here but personally have no recollection of Gore ever trying to save dolphins and whales. He did talk a lot for about a decade on the dangers of global cooling; in the next decade however he spotted the next great danger, global warming, so am no longer certain of his position on planetary temperature trends.

Back to subject: anyone willing to place bets on whether this Islamic cleric was reading "Lysistrata" or thought up of this tactical approach against looters independently?
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Some looters were surrendering stolen goods after learning that a cleric issued an edict forbidding Iraqi wives from having sex with their looter husbands.
http://www.harpers.org/weekly-review/
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

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Hoft

I love your sense of humor on both topics.

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Is anyone else experiencing the loss of posts off into cyberspace?

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Sure I won't be believed, but just lost my post as I was submitting it and the list of supporters of the guy I made.
Raymond Zalinskas and Rolf Ekeus are two weapons inspectors that back the guy, and Koffi Annan is one of the biggest supporters obviously.

I may later go back and rebuild that list but right now I need to take a several-day break from this forum to get some work done. No doubt i'll buckle and make a few posts though Smile

daf

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The above post was in reply to the missig one of Perc's, asking for weapons inspectors that support Scott Ritter, and saying that he'd noone has seen the guy's film (which I myself never even heard of).

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Daf, after you type your post, click on Copy Post to Clipboard, then click on Submit. I have saved more than one post this way, posts that disappeared when I clicked on Submit.

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Hi Hoft ~

Gore's enviornmental contributions <Preserving the Tahoe Basin, National Monuments, etc > numerous. Sending and recieving correspondence from the then Vice President, his knowledge of animal issues minimul. Although he did research, and sent return letters regarding the Endocrine Disruptor program run by the gov <chemical animals tests>, but after innundation from advocates, the then administration set up as law a committee that sought alternative animal friendly tests. Today, the gov continues using arcaic chemical tests on animals.

Probably not a bad idea sending Islamic clerics for a luncheon date with Senators wives.

Yo, Blatham ~

Will be interesting seeing how rebuilding Iraq plays out both for the region and the U.N. Anything will be better than the horrific circumstances the Iraqi people were subject to under Hussein's regime.

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Typical, Logical Consistency ... with a French accent
I'm surprised anyone would be surprised by this. It is just so French.

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You must love ripping the French. Even when they do something positive.

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Gotta Punish Those Frenchies

Shocked

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My dissatisfaction with this Administration just doubled.

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Why not just invade 'em?

They have WMD.

Oh, wait - they have WMD....damn.

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Yeah, I guess I'm not unbiased when it comes to The French. They and I have issues going back a long way ... our private difficulties date to somewhere in The Eisenhower Era, Charles DeGaulle, Southeast Asia, North Africa, The Suez, The Renault Dauphine, and NATO. I've forgiven them nearly everything but the Dauphine has earned the nation responsibe my undying enmity..

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Don't forget: We're not talking about grown-ups when we talk about this administration. See (back a few pages) that Calvin Trillin poem on the schoolyard and the snowball... A bunch of fifth-graders, bright but nasty bullies, are in charge. When I remember that, it explains everything.

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The US, UN & Iraq III

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