I'm days behind here and it looks like I've missed the fireworks.
Setanta began:....
Quote:Among the ancient nomads of the Arabian peninsula, long before Mohammed and Islam, there was a custom known as the sunna. This can be thought of as a modus vivendi, a means of living together, or getting along. These fierce, proud, tribal warriors were contemptuous of the pacific inhabitants of oases, towns and seaports--but those people had the trade goods the desert nomads wanted
You have given an erudite posting of what I read popularly written in Karen Armstrong's History of God. The history of Islam is fascinating. Hobitbob points out above that Armstrong's book about fundamentalism, The Battle for God, attests that those who feel threatened by modernist changes in a traditional faith seek to go back to the beginning and recreate the old beliefs and dogmas in a strict and rigid way. As simplistic as they may be, her books (or tapes) are a good way to get a feeling for what most of us never had any chance or encouragement to study: the various religious traditions of the world.
Tartarin, what a great quote from from Barbara Tuchman, in The March of Folly.
Sumac wrote:
Quote:"I have a question. Given the dominance of faith in Iraqi life (or is that an incorrect assumption on my part?), what would happen if an Iraqi leader or politician came onto the scene and said that given our differences, we must adopt a model with a strict separation of church and state? What is the likelihood that such an individual would, or could, rise to the top? What if he or she actively campaigned on this issue? What might be the outcome?"
This is an issue of great interest to me. I have read only small pieces on it and a very few hopeful items. There was a cleric of the church-state-separation belief who came to Iraq from a religious school in Iran. The belief that Islam and democracy can live comfortably together is held by his school/group in Iran, although this is not an idea that raises its head high at the current moment in Iran. He has hopes of establishing just that idea in Iraq and is there trying to gain followers. I read only one story on this and have seen no follow up. I have read often what hobitbob says about Iraq being very secular, probably due to the influence of Sunni Islam, and one hopes that enough order will be established in Iraq (although that seems increasingly unlikely) that free discussions, as well as frank debate and dissent, will be heard.
) . The Iraqis got quite used to a secular society, where Alcohol, short skirts, and fun were availble (if limited). The same was true of Lebanon before the 1980s, Afghanistan before 1978, etc...Even in modern day Iran there are strong pulls toward a secular society, with undergroud culture developing. Unfortunately, Iran has also acquired the "down side" of secualr society: A huge IVDA problem, growing HIV rates (Although the government deinies that AIDS is in Iran) , and thriving markets for prostituion of both sexes, and a relatively accomplished porn industry! In fact, the success of the Islamic revolution in Iran was likely due to the brief chaos that occured after the Shah left. Khomeini and co. assumed power when there was no one atound to stop them. Once people realized what had occurred, it was too late to do anything about it. It would be a pity if that were to happen in Iraq. 
